Righteously Tasty: The Ezekiel 4:9 family of productsI was tickled when I discovered Ezekiel 4:9 in my local grocery store. Finally, two of my favorite things—contemporary religion and whole grain cereal—were combined within one scripture-clad box. With a recipe inspired by the corresponding biblical passage, Ezekiel 4:9 cereal combines the ingredients—wheat, barley, beans, lentils, millet, and spelt—directed by God to the prophet Ezekiel. Had I found the true “staff of life,” as advertised?

Of course, I had to take it home and see for myself. Little did I know that only a few weeks later, New York Magazine would give the cereal a four-out-of-four star rating, and that I would be regularly enjoying the breakfast product. To learn more about Food for Life, the company behind the Ezekiel 4:9 brand, I spoke with Gary Torres, Food for Life’s Marketing Director.

How did Food for Life come up with the Ezekiel 4:9 brand, and what was the development process like? The people of Food For Life have always had a passion for natural foods. As bakers and believers in scripture, we felt it necessary to produce the nutritious bread described in Ezekiel 4:9, as well as many other products, such as 7-grain and other whole grain breads and granolas. The first breads were produced in the mid 1940s.

What was it like to take a recipe found in the bible and to turn it into an actual, marketable product? Did you run into any obstacles? Making Ezekiel bread came naturally at Food For Life. We were immediately convinced of the nutritional value of this unique yet timeless bread. Although this bread is now widely distributed, marketing Ezekiel bread over the years has not always been easy. Because of the Biblical/Scriptural reference, it has definitely experienced its share of both good and bad attention. Not everyone agreed that a bread product named Ezekiel 4:9 was a smart idea, nor did everyone agree that a bread should have scripture on it. We believed that both were appropriate.

So Food for Life sees the brand as fulfilling a specifically religious purpose, as well as a nutritional one? Ezekiel 4:9 bread has never been produced to fill a religious purpose. Rather, it's a nutritionally superior bread produced by divine inspiration. Ezekiel 4:9 Hot Dog Buns: Hebrew National never had a better companion

Have religious groups generated any particular interest in the product? Since we are a Jewish site, I have to ask if there is any Jewish connection—have you had any requests from Jewish or other religious groups or vendors? Yes, of course, some have... the Kashruth kosher supervision, Kof-K of Teaneck, NJ as well as other religious communities and organizations have generated support for Ezekiel bread. Though Food For Life has no religious affiliation, we are ever-anxious to serve our customers. Specifically, we have been asked to produce this product under orthodox designation pas yisroel which we have done.

The Ezekiel 4:9 cereal was described as “righteously tasty” in New York Magazine last week. Do you think part of the cereal’s high nutritional value and good taste can be attributed to the fact that the recipe came from the bible? Was this cereal destined to be? Absolutely! Ezekiel 4:9 cereal is made with only simple ingredients and contains only the specified grains, legumes, and seeds as God gave to Ezekiel (documented in the Holy Scripture verse: Ezekiel 4:9). It is quite amazing to experience its uncommonly good taste and nutritional profile. Since this product is not fortified with additives, we can draw no other conclusions for the basis of its nutritional value and flavor.

Speaking of how God directed Ezekiel, you don’t cook it the same way (over burning animal waste) as Ezekiel did, do you? Surprisingly, we receive that very question quite often. It seems that many are curious to find out just how authentic our Ezekiel 4:9 bread really is! However, please be assured all Food For Life products, including Ezekiel 4:9 bread, are baked using modern or conventional baking methods.

Ezekiel the Prophet: not afraid to cook with some dungThank goodness! Readers will be happy to hear that. Food for Life also has a Genesis 1:29 brand, inspired by the passage in which God instructs Adam and Eve to use “every herb bearing seed…for meat.” You guys obviously took a few liberties with the recipe. How did you go about choosing the ingredients for this product? Yes, we've taken some common and other uncommon grains and seeds from nearly every continent on the earth and combined them together in Genesis 1:29 bread. Through the inspiration of the verse Genesis 1:29, we have developed a bread after the original grain-based diet given by God which features "A world of nutrition in Every Slice". This bread is packed with grains and seeds!

Sounds great! Does Food for Life have any upcoming plans for additional varieties of biblical food? Perhaps, you never know what is coming next! Stay tuned!

Efrim Menuck fronts the band currently named Thee Silver Mt. Zion Memorial Orchestra & Tra-La-La Band—a band whose appellation, along with its sound, changes and grows with each new release. Currently, the band is a seven-piece composed of (among other instruments) violins, guitars, and a cello—and group choral chanting. Their newest release, Thirteen Blues for Thirteen Moons, finds the band in a more aggressive, rock-edged mood than usual, supplanting their experimental punk backgrounds (Menuck, along with the band’s violinist and bassist, also play in the band Godspeed You! Black Emperor). Just landed from their European tour, Menuck graciously filled us in on the band’s philosophy, writing habits, and the Facebook invasion of Canada.Thee Silver Mt. Zion Memorial Orchestra & Tra-La-La Band: chilling in a field

I can't make up my mind whether your music and the imagery of your lyrics and albums reminds me more of old Baptist church spirituals, or old Jewish ones. Is that intentional?

We grab water from both of those rivers, because faith is a lovely thing, even if you don't believe in God. It's partly why the band is named after Mt. Zion—it's the holy mountain in the awful desert that illuminates the choruses of Baptist hymns, dusty klezmer tunes, and 6-minute dubplates. Also, I spent grades one through nine at Hebrew day school, and came home every night to my atheist father, who would try to undo any little thing I’d happened to learn that day.

This means that, somewhere in my little pea-brain, there's a knotted scar where the secular and the godly have fused; means that I tend to see things in terms of good and evil, write large, and means that I believe in congregations, hymns and prayers but not in God, so when I try to put words together to sing on top of this music that we all write together, that jumble just pours out of me, worried and conflicted and messy as hell.

Critics keep talking about your music as protest music, but it seems less like specific issue-oriented protests than protesting the system in general—a nonspecific cry to start over, build anew.

Yeah, for us it's all a raucous blues or joyful punk-rock implosion, but if we had to semaphore our primary complaints and concerns, it'd probably go something like this: The world's a mess, and we're led by murderous thieves who keep dragging us unwillingly ever closer to the gaping precipice.

What's your writing process like? Does one person come up with an idea for a song, or do you all start jamming and then run with it?

Our writing process is slow and backwards. We start with a handful of riffs, and hammer at them for hours on end, until some sort of rough counterpoints start to bloom. Then we break it all into little pieces, strew ’em all over the floor of our jamspace and then put them back together again as best we can. When the whole teetering pile is almost structurally sound, I'll start throwing words at it, and tangles of melody too, to harmonize with us all singing at once.

Then we bring these songs with us on the road and dump them into the laps of whatever audience has blessed us with their kindness and grace on any given night, and repeat that narrative, like long laps on a dimly-lit track, until the song itself is weathered, dented and true.

Is the music scene in Montreal going through a real golden age, or is it just attracting more attention? What's it like up there?

No, it's no golden age in Montreal right now. Skyrocketing rents, an overabundance of Facebook-obsessed university students, and an oversaturation of self-promotional A&R types has led to a state of affairs whereby most gigs glow with the impermanence of a flash-mob instead of any sort of self-sustaining community.

There's still a bunch of tiny, crucial glimmering flames though, and, like in any large city, there's a constant surplus of good people doing good work in the lovely shadows.

Are there a lot of Jews involved in the scene? Is it a coincidence, or did you grow up with other people who were into the same influences as you were?

No more Jews than any other scene, I guess; Mt. Zion's got four Jews and three goys, but most of Montreal's Jews took off when the FLQ [the extremist Front de liberation du Québec] started planting mailbox bombs in the early seventies. I spent most of my punk-rock adolescence being the only Jew in the room, so it's nice to feel a little less isolated these days, especially ’round the high holidays.

In "Blindblindblind," you sing, "My the light of our striving still shine." It almost feels like a prayer for something beyond—beyond the album, beyond the band, a kind of creative immortality. How do you want your music to be remembered?

Bad endings can ruin even the best story, so the only thing I know for sure is how I don't want things to end—the world is not a kind place for musicians, and there are very few happy endings in the grand historia de la rock, means that I don't want die poor and alone, nor do I want to be the vain jerk in the diaper stinking up the stage at the retro-festival, and while I hope that our band's stubborn little discography still glimmers with its own hard-won internal logic 30 years from now, I’m more concerned with a more achievable type of permanence. Good friends, a healthy family, and a couple of crucial smudges and footprints across our collective histories sounds more than pretty good to me.

DeScribe: Jewish gangsta When hip-hop audiences talk about being born into the game, they don’t usually mean like this. DeScribe, a.k.a. Shneur Hasofer, is the son of Hasidic singer-songwriter Devorah Hasofer, whose music I’ve never heard—her albums specify that her singing is “for women and girls only”—but I’d be willing to bet they don’t sound much alike.

And when hip-hop audiences talk about getting made, they also don’t usually mean it this way. DeScribe was born in Australia, moved to Israel as a child, and served as a sharpshooter in the Israeli army. This, and other life experiences (everything from growing up in Israel to touring with Killah Priest and Remedy of the Wu-Tang Clan) informs his music—personal, unapologetic, and politically charged. He currently writes and records beats and lyrics out of a studio inside his Seagate, New York yeshiva.

Obviously, you’re going for a different audience than your mother—but are you targeting mostly observant people, mostly non-observant people, or both? What’s the ultimate goal of your music?

My crowd is definitely different to that of my mother's, though my mother’s music isn't limited to the religious world, either. Being Hassidic Jews, we both believe in reaching out to the world with a positive message. Using the medium of hip-hop, I want to reach all walks of life and cultures.

The last time I asked my mother's opinion on my music, she told me she was my number one fan. In general both, my parents are very supportive when I invest my energies in a positive manner.

What was it like to be a sharpshooter in the Israeli army?

Joining the army at the age of 17 was a very emotional experience, and a very spiritual one. As a soldier, I felt a sense of honor and love for Israel and realized that I was in a situation not that different from my ancestors, who gave their lives in battle to protect our land, our culture and our sacred way of life. It caused me to mature and realize some realities of life.

Did you discuss politics with Killah Priest?

From what I remember, Killah Priest was more interested in the spiritual and biblical significance of Israel and the Jewish people. He is more the spiritual type, having grown up in a devout Christian home.

It seems from your lyrics like you’re trying to be a voice of reason and to inspire your listeners, but you’re also working out your own issues. What’s it like to take stuff you’re thinking about or wrestling with and put it on display?

In the Hassidic way of life, we’re encouraged to continuously grow. Our leaders have taught us there’s no such thing as staying in one place. Like a ball on a hill—if it’s not propelled up, then it’s rolling down.

In your single "iSong," you work with a lot of violent imagery—“Blam blam in my brain/everybody going insane,” goes one lyric. Then later, you sing, “Why me/why you/is it cause I am a Jew?” over images of an Israeli flag burning and Palestinian sharpshooters.

Ego is the root of all evil and the driving force behind today’s modern culture. It’s all about “how big I am,” “how respected I am”—it’s all coming from “me.” “Blam blam” expresses my opposition to the root of violence, which is ego. It's not a call to arms. It’s a call to question the world we live in, and to realize that there’s a purpose and reality bigger than our immediate surroundings.

What about the message “May Hashem avenge their blood” at the end—is this an expression of rage? A call to arms? What do you think should be done about the whole situation?

During production, I learned of the brutal massacre at Yeshiva Merkaz Harav and, therefore, our emotions affected the music video. It’s an issue I'm sure the world relates to, since these attacks are one of the symptoms of the low state of today’s society. Virginia Tech is just one of the many cases worldwide.

I don’t claim to be able to accept or judge these evil people, being a limited human being. As a result of thought, not rage, I ask G-d to avenge the blood of the young victims.

It’s interesting that you use Holocaust imagery together with footage of terrorist attacks. These days, when the Holocaust’s brought up in the context of the Israel-Palestine conflict, it’s mostly by Palestinian activists trying to draw parallels between concentration camps and Palestinian internment camps. What do you think of that?

As a combat infantry soldier in time of war, I happened upon a number of these Palestinian “internment” camps and it is a complete oxymoron for anyone to even jokingly compare a Nazi work camp to a Palestinian refugee camp. These so-called camps are towns with stores, roads and facilities—no different to any other town. They’re not surrounded by armed guards, the people are not worked to death, not confined to cells, not used as human experiments, not subject to mass genocide.

The camps serve as a refuge from the Arab countries from which the refugees fled in fear of their lives. There are some who suffer harsh conditions, as expected in war, but a comparison between the six million murdered in the Holocaust to a war between Israel and the Palestinians is totally inappropriate and misleading.

Who are the dudes in handkerchiefs near the end of the video?

The 'dudes' in handkerchiefs appear with the words "Lead a life of temptation, with no inspiration, it's the adaptation of this generation.” This gang footage and the child clutching the weapon epitomize our generation—stooped in the worship of self, money and criminal violence and murder.

If we can begin to ask "why," we’ll discover a deeper truth beyond the limits of human understanding, a reality of spiritual value beyond our immediate existence. Why turn to the ground when you can turn to the heavens?

Totally fierce: KashouForget the presidential election. Up until last week, the most interesting—you might even say fierce—competition on TV was the battle to win Season 4 of Bravo TV's hit series “Project Runway.” Would it be Christian “Young, Fierce, and Talented” Siriano, Jillian “I Can Make Twizzlers Look Sexy” Lewis, or Rami “Drapery” Kashou?

Last Wednesday Christian emerged as the winner, but Ramallah-born Rami was a close second, and the judges praised his talent, vision, and drive. Rami didn’t talk much about his background on the show, leading many Jewish viewers to wonder if he was a member of the tribe (though his big crucifix suggested otherwise). In fact, he grew up as a Catholic on the West Bank, leaving the country for the U.S. after high school to pursue his fashion dreams. Prior to appearing on the show, he ran a small successful line worn by Hollywood stars like Jessica Alba, Tyra Banks, and even Paris Hilton.

During the show, the judges often worried that you relied too much on your talent for drapery. Did your background inspire your style as a designer?

I am the son of a mother who was a lover of fashion. My mother, who died when I was five, was Miss Jordan. She had all these amazing pieces in her closest, all these cocktail dresses. I guess because I saw women who wore veils with drapery, I liked the beauty of the fabric and the way it fell. So I guess maybe subconsciously that led to the draping in my designs on the show.

When ["Project Runway" mentor] Tim Gunn visited me right before Fashion Week, he looked at my collection and asked, “Where's the drapery?” That was when I realized I don't care what the judges say. I'm happy with my final collection for Fashion Week and that's all that matters. I'm finding my own voice and I'm glad they 'got it' in the end.

Mellow yellow: A typical Rami Kashou designYou already have a store and a studio in Los Angeles. Would you consider opening one in New York?

Yes! I'd love to, are you kidding me? I was in New York for a few days recently and what I love is that in New York, everything is so compact. There are so many people in small spaces—it's kind of like being shoved in an elevator--and all these people were coming up to me, and you never know who you'll meet next. It's easier to network in N.Y. than L.A. because of that.

What about in your home country?

I'd love to open up in more than one country, but with checkpoints in the Middle East, it could be hard. But it would be nice to have my work in different countries, to make it more accessible.

Do you think your previous fashion experience worked against you?

Honestly? Yes. You know, Jillian said something to me during the show that I thought was interesting. She said to me, “Rami, we want the career you already have.” But I don’t think people realize that I was doing it all on my own before the show. OK, I already had a label, but I wanted to win the money, not really the title, because the money would help my business. I do all of the dirty work for my label, which in a way takes away from the creative process sometimes. I deal with all the business stuff, all the bounced checks, arranging of events, everything. I just happen to be lucky that some celebrities liked my work.

Good sports: Rami and Chris MarchSpeaking of Jillian, what was your relationship with her like?

She was my BFF on the show and after the show.

When it came time to pick the three final contestants, the "Project Runway" judges had so much trouble choosing between you and Chris March that they ultimately asked you to compete in a separate contest. What was that like?

I'm sure it was really stressful for Chris, too, but when the judges said that both Chris and I had to design three outfits for them and then they'd choose between us, I thought, “Oh, great.” It kind of took the fun out of show—I felt like they cuffed our hands behind our backs and said, “Go design.” I used this analogy before, but to me, when the judges said they had to choose between Chris and me, it felt like I was handed a birthday cake without the candles...like, great, I don't get to make a wish?

How did you decide to audition for the show? I’ve heard previous contestants Nick Verroes and Santino Rice inspired you to sign up.

I was acquaintances with Santino, but I knew Nick from the same social setting and he said more good comes out of the show than bad.

Do you think your season was as gossipy as it’s been in past years?

Because I watched the previous seasons, I expected some gossip. However, I did learn after that there was a lot of editing done. People do say things and they get mashed up or get taken out of context. But other seasons were a LOT worse, I'll tell you that.

Grecian earn: A stunner from episode 11Did it bother you to see how you’d been edited?

Well, one thing they didn’t show is that I made all the shoes, hats, and pocketbooks the models wore. Only once I used a pair of Bluefly.com shoes because I needed a certain size. I liked working with Bluefly.com, but I wished the show acknowledged that I did all the etching and sewing and designing for the model's shoes, hats, and handbags—and I'd never designed handbags before. The chains were all custom-made, as was the quilting. I sewed all the bags and I'm happy with how the bags came out.

What's next for Rami Kashou now that the show is over?

Back to business! I just shipped out the Spring/Summer 2008 collection which you can find in NY at the store Big Drop. I’ll also be selling a design on the Home Shopping Network. And in mid-March, I’m flying back to the East Coast to attend an event for Seeds of Peace, which aims to improve relations and encourage peace in the Middle East. I'll be a guest there—it's a big deal. In the past they've had Susan Sarandon and Zac Posen as guests. It will be nice to move beyond fashion for this because I believe in the cause.

[[Correction: Rami initially said his work would be sold at Intermix, but it's actually Big Drop.  We regret the error.]]

The Faith Between Us is like no other book about religion. Born when Jewish Peter Bebergal asked his Catholic friend Scott Korb if he believed in God, it's less a treatise on spirituality than an ongoing conversation between two friends about their surprisingly similar relationships with the divine. I spoke to them about their book (which is excerpted on Jewcy), their friendship, and their attempt to reframe the way Americans talk about religion. --Amy Guth

A new way of talking about faith: The bookTell us a bit about your writing process.

Korb: What started us thinking about the book was when Peter asked me whether or not I believed in God. The book as a whole answers that question. In short: No. In long: Yes, a lot.

The process goes this way: We write an essay. We send that essay to the other person. We edit each other’s essays.

From this point we diverge. I send my comments to Peter. Peter graciously incorporates my suggestions (to a point) and in a week or so has a finished essay. It’s smooth.

Peter doesn’t even bother sending me my essays back any more. First, he calls. He tells me the essay needs work, often with the structure or my focus. I tell him to read it again because clearly he hasn’t read it carefully enough. He tells me he’s read it twice. I tell him to read it again. He does. He calls me the next day with the same comments. I disagree and yell at him. We get off the phone. I sit for two days thinking I am right and Peter is wrong. I reread the essay the following day and realize that Peter is right and I am wrong. I rewrite the essay incorporating Peter’s suggestions (to a point). In a week or so I have a finished essay.

Bebergal: Scott has laid it out pretty well here. We both had our moments of being very protective of our writing, as if certain sentences and ideas were precious little kittens the other was trying to smother with a pillow. But even when we both agreed on certain things, our editor would see them and be appalled. That was the most humbling part of the process. At one point, after delivering some material, our editor said “I don’t really know what to say.” She said this not with excitement and enthusiasm, but as if someone had just smothered a kitten.

It wasn’t for Scott I wouldn’t be half the writer I am today. He has taught me so much, especially about slowing down and really reading over my work carefully. Scott loves words and sentences, and the way they work together. I get caught up in the intoxication of an idea and an image, and I often forget to make sure my expression of it is as clear and concise as it can be.

It will be a shock to begin our next larger projects mostly independent of each other.

A Jew and a Catholic walk into a bar: The authorsAs the two of you have been promoting the book, do you find that you've each fallen into different roles? Or do you split responsibilities down the middle?

Bebergal: I kind of like to think of us as good cop/bad cop, with me being the good cop. Since I am theist, and Scott really defines himself as an atheist, when we are talking to a room full of believers, I feel like I have to soften the blow a little bit when Scott tries to explain how he considers himself both religious and a non-believer. Also, Scott is more willing to carry a box of books, whereas I prefer to use one those grocery push carts.

Korb: Duty-wise, we've gotten pretty good at seamless tag-teaming. I talk, he reads, I read, we both discuss with an assembled group. Or vice-versa. Although I'm finding that people are just slightly more interested in hearing from Peter of actual encounters with the source of holiness – the God we hear so much about – than from me about how holiness has no source, necessarily, but that we create it (say, through an act of love), or recognize it in something someone else has created (say, in Marilynne Robinson's Gilead) at each new moment of creation. People like good cops.

Peter, what, if anything, has Scott's religion shown you about Judaism? Scott, what has Peter's religion taught you about Catholicism?

Bebergal: Scott has made me want to be a more observant Jew. I find that I take more care on the holidays and on Shabbat, and I can feel Scott's own devoutness in spirit when I practice. Scott has helped me to see the beauty in the metaphor and the symbol when I can't get to the actual meaning. But this has less to do with Catholicism than with who Scott is as a Catholic.

Also, to be honest, working this closely with a Christian and with Christian ideas has only emphasized for me how much I love Judaism, and how much I don't identify with a Christian conception of the world.

Korb: While over the years I've become fairly familiar with Judaism through its myths and rituals and ethics, and while much of this familiarity has come through reading and practicing and studying with Peter and his family, the fact is that Judaism remains a foreign land to me. Today I travel there regularly, but I'm by nature nostalgic, and it always feels good back home. The mystery of Judaism, though, the foreign rituals and the foreign languages, is a constant reminder that God is more than I could possibly say. In other words, the fact of Judaism means that my Catholicism cannot possibly say all there is to say about God.

Interested in more than just halo-gazing: JesusHow have your perceptions of one other's religions evolved through the process of writing The Faith Between Us?

Bebergal: I used to believe that being Christian meant that you accepted the infallibility of the Church and the teachings, and that the emphasis was on the afterlife. Scott's relationship to Christianity has shown me that the Jesus of the Gospels is much more interested in this world. Of course, all religions have their eschatologies, but I understand now that a true Christian life can be concerned with the here and now, with the environment, human rights, social justice.

Korb: There was a time when I might have said that Jews were not going to get into Heaven. The process of becoming a Catholic atheist – a process largely influenced by my encounters with Judaism – has led me to extend this to Christians, too. (That is, there is no Heaven to get into.) But that probably says more about how my perception of my own religion has changed through this process. How about: I've seen no evidence of the blood libel? Jews aren't money-grubbers?

Scott, you've said before, "We learn in the book that I was basically wrong about my whole life of religious disciplines" How have you each changed spiritually through the process of this book, if at all?

Bebergal: My early days of seeking some kind of mystical experience were characterized by drug induced paranoia and superstition, the latter staying with me throughout my life. When I got sober, to combat this, I had mostly put my ideas and desires about mysticism away, because they were too bound up in what had become unhealthy, and ultimately life-threatening, for me. But through the writing and my friendship with Scott I have become much less superstitious. And the lovely irony is that now I feel more capable of exploring mysticism again (this time without the LSD, mind you).

Korb: My life of religious discipline – from an early vocation-gone-bad, to severe food and sex proscriptions, to my understanding of a facial tic as a God-given marker of my distinctness – was never a difficult one, spiritually. It sounds counterintuitive, but when discipline shapes your life, when you know what you have to eat everyday and that God doesn't want you sleeping with anyone until you're married, you take great comfort in that. When your face keeps your moral temperature by flashing under the pressure of any contact with sin, there's never any struggle. Eat vegan, no sex (or, no "intercourse" but lots of sex), be good.

As I abandon that life under God's safe protection and my own obsessive control, my spiritual life becomes more of a struggle. I'd always kept myself above the fray of living in the world, afraid of the mess and pain. I'm in it now, and it's good for me. Sex is more meaningful when you risk real relationships and struggle against monogamy (I've recently been engaged). Food tastes better when you pay attention to where the meat comes from (I've recently been hunting).

Reading across the divide: The book has been praised by athiests and believers alike What is the best single bit of feedback you've gotten about the book?

Bebergal: For me, it was when our editor told us that she had full confidence that we were going to write a great book, but when she read the completed manuscript it was better than the book she thought she was going to get from us. But I do also have to say equal to that was when my father-in-law, who is a devout atheist and fierce literary critic, finished the book and said that he could really identify with the idea that faith begins in wonder, and that he understood the power and importance of religious language.

Korb: My mother and an editor friend, both Catholics, said the same thing to me after reading the book and learning of my atheism: "I hope you're wrong." At first I laughed this off, saying, "Yeah, me too." But one night while Peter and I were discussing the book at Harvard Hillel I realized something about their remark that I'd missed in so quickly dismissing it. Neither my mom nor this friend was insisting anything. They have a hope for me and for themselves. A Christian hope. And they're no more, and no less, sure about God than I am.

The Christian hope I have doesn't require – and, in fact, does better without – any actual God or afterlife or judgment. I hope for salvation here. And for my sake, I hope that hope is, as I insisted with my friend, "as Christian as anything."

What do you most hope Jewish readers will take away from The Faith Between Us?

Bebergal: I hope that Jewish readers will identify a bit with the internal struggle of simply being religious. I grew up extremely secular (the old joke, I think Billy Crystal once used it, is "My parents believe in the Ten Commandments but we only had to pick five.") I have been observant, and even that in my limited way, for only about 15 years. I worried that I had nothing to say about Judaism that would be important. But then I realized that my whole life is about being Jewish, with all the struggles, questions, doubts, food, jokes.

I also think that I want to start a conversation, which is not often one discussed in Jewish circles, about the question God. The emphasis is often on observance, law, and Israel. But I want to start talking about what is God to us as as individuals, and how we take those beliefs into our communities and synagogues. Even though I was born Jewish, and culturally this was very important in my home, I came to Jewish practice by way of belief, by way of God.

Korb: Starting with Peter, Jewish readers were a huge help to me in the writing of this book. They helped me to clarify my own thoughts, as I wrote, about what it means to be faithful. And as I considered a potential Jewish audience, I knew I had to be clear in how I told stories and described ideas that, while perfectly familiar to me, might seem crazy to them. And for that, one thing I'd like a Jewish reader to take away from Faith is a "Thank you."

That said, I hope a Jewish reader could find real meaning in the Christian stories I rely on while telling my own story. I hope I'm clear enough. And I hope they're open-minded enough.

What do you each wish was different about both Judaism and Christianity?

Bebergal: Well it depends on if you mean historically or today. My biggest frustration though is with Hasidism. I deeply respect their knowledge and spiritual aptitude, but can't abide by much of their views on the world we live in. I wish there weren't such deep divisions over things like gays, evolution, and Israel. But this is the history of Judaism, these deep divisions. It's amazing to think about Jews having a civil war in the 60s C.E. We still have this same conflict between secularism and religion. But thank God that the Judaism I practice and understand is both worldly and spiritual, rational and mystical.

Korb: God help us. Religions in general would be better if they emphasized belief less and faithfulness more.

* * *

ALSO IN JEWCY: Read an excerpt from The Faith Between Us

Part II: Joanna Angel

Jewcy: Your mom is concerned about your financials.

Joanna Angel: How many other twenty-five year olds do you know that are buying real estate and investing? I live on both sides of the country, and that’s expensive. You tend to spend a lot when you’re going coast to coast. When you’re in this business, you also have to look like a million dollars all the time and that isn’t cheap.

Jewcy: Did you go to public school?

Joanna Angel: My parents were a little nutty. They kept taking me in and out of Hebrew school and public school.

Jewcy: We were talking about the old clichés of adult stars and how they come from broken homes. But aside from having a stable high school environment, your upbringing sounds very different. It sounds nurturing.

Joanna Angel: There are a lot of people in porn. There are a lot of functional people in porn.

Jewcy: Tell me about the time your mom discovered your first piercing.Passover seder at the Angel household

Joanna Angel: [Laughs] I was doing tashlich on Yom Kippur and I raised my hand to throw bread into the water. And she was like, Oh my God. What is that? I was going to tell her but I didn’t want her to be upset.

Jewcy: Your first tattoo was on your shoulder.

Joanna Angel: Yeah, I actually have a lot of them now that she doesn’t know about. She knows about some of them but I forget which are the ones she knows about and the ones she doesn’t, so I try to keep track for when I have to cover up when I go home. Sometimes, though, I make mistakes.

Jewcy: Did you secretly desire to be a porn star in high school, or as a teen?

Joanna Angel: No, never. It never crossed my mind until my roommate in college asked me if I wanted to start a porn website with him. I knew nothing about porn initially. I grew up in the punk and hardcore scene—we were focused on making the world better, not sex. I didn’t lose my virginity until I was eighteen.

When my roommate did ask me about the website, I thought I was going to help run it or just write on it. It was exciting. It sounded like fun. I remember getting the website together and asking girls to model and I started to feel really hypocritical not doing it myself.

Then we took the photos of me and I didn’t think they were going to come out well and I remember looking at the photos and thinking, “Wow, I look kinda hot.” Originally, I thought I was a crusty vegan girl with short hair and bad skin but it came out kinda hot and it made me feel great.

Jewcy: Why did you start stripping?

Joanna Angel: I was sick of living in Jersey. I wanted to move and take it to the next level. I was in a crunch for money because of the website and I didn’t want to wait tables. And after I started the website, I saw a new side of myself and I didn’t mind going with it.

Jewcy: Have you ever had any feelings of guilt?

Joanna Angel: I don’t like pissing off my mom. I used to like it when I was little. And the only time I really thought that if my mom could see me, she would cry—and this is going to sound really fucked up—is when I did my first porno with a black guy. I was thinking, this right here is my mother’s worst nightmare. This is not what a nice Jewish mom wants her daughter to do.

And I feel bad when she sees some stuff. I remember when she borrowed my car and she opened the trunk and I had some DVDs in there, and she was like, “Oh my God. There are pictures of Joanna having sexual intercourse in the trunk of the car!” But I don’t feel guilty because I think I’m doing something wrong. I just don’t want her being upset.

Jewcy: Your mom thinks you want to get married eventually.

Joanna Angel: My mom’s been talking to me about it since I’ve been fifteen. And I do want to eventually get married. Yeah, why not?

Jewcy: Where do you want to be in ten years?

Joanna Angel: I would like to direct more and act less. I don’t think I’m that good at performing. But I do enjoy it. I wish I was better at it. I get nominated generally for Best Directing and Best Acting but other girls in my movies get nominated for Best Three-way or Best Oral.

Jewcy: Does it matter to you that your family can’t respect your profession?

Joanna Angel: I was never looking for validation from my family. It’s important that they’re in my life but I don’t need my dad to pat me on my back—I just want to see them and have them love me. It’s huge to me that my mom is still willing to embrace me and accept me. I think I took my mom for granted when I was growing up but not anymore.

Jewcy: How do you respond to your mom’s criticism that men take advantage of women in this industry?

Joanna Angel: Men take advantage of women in every industry. We live in a patriarchy. But that being said, when you want to do porn, you go to an agent and they ask you what you will do and what you won’t do—will you do girls? Will you do boys and girls? It’s not like that in the real world. They don’t give you options like that.

Jewcy: Does your partner in Burning Angel appear in any of the films?

Joanna Angel: No. He actually tried to talk me out of doing the movies. He tries to tell my mom that but she doesn’t believe him. It was just something I really wanted to do.

Jewcy: Do you still have a passion for having intercourse on film for public consumption?

Joanna Angel: Um, yeah. Well, as times goes on, I don’t think I’ll be doing more Burning Angel movies because it’s my own company so it may look strange that I’m promoting myself. But I am doing like six Hustler movies a year. I think the stage I’m at is kind of nice because I look forward to doing them now as opposed to tiring of them. There are some girls in the industry that work every day. You can’t enjoy that. But nobody enjoys what they do every day.

Jewcy: Do you still feel connected to your tradition considering your line of work?

Joanna Angel: I go home for the holidays. It’s a time to see my family and it’s a purely traditional thing for me. It’s not spiritual. And you know, I think I would feel uncomfortable marrying someone who wasn’t Jewish. I couldn’t live in a house with a Christmas tree—that would make me uncomfortable.