Religion & Beliefs
Nice Jewish Boys (and Girls) Can Get Inked
By Tamar Fox / January 24, 2008
If it seems like everyone and their great aunt has a fairy tattooed on their lower back, and if you're thinking of joining the crowd, check out the article in today's New York Times about the newish trend of people paying big bucks for elaborate temporary tattoos. Apparently the temp variety has gone all mainstream. The very end of the article quotes Michael Benjamin, the president of Temptu, a New York supplier of mock tattoos and body paints, saying "I get to be a nice Jewish boy who looks tough."
Temporary tattoos have been a part of Jewish life for centuries, especially in communities from North Africa and the Middle East. Intricate henna designs and henna ceremonies are common for people who are engaged. Hennapedia gives a nice summary of how henna is used in Kurdish Jewish tradition, and you can look at pictures from tons of henna ceremonies at onlysimchas.
It's a short journey from the rise of temporary tattoos to someone saying that if you have a tattoo you can't be buried in a Jewish cemetery. We've actually already covered that on Faithhacker before, but just to review, while permanent tattoos are specifically prohibited in the Torah, having one doesn't preclude your ability to be buried in a Jewish cemetery. In other words, they're definitely a no-no, but if you've got one, you can definitely be buried near your family, and fully participate in all synagogue rituals.
But now that there's rad fake tattoos, why get caught up in the real thing? May I suggest a big Jewcy tattoo on your left butt cheek?
POST A COMMENT
Perhaps one of the ways there is such a disconnect between those of us who like Jewish life and those who reject it, is the sentiment that one can and should seek ways and means for self-improvement.
Therefore, getting "inked" can NEVER be justified in terms of the upside and the ways in which such an action will bring one to a higher and better place. Instead, its only justification is simply a sentiment that such an action is wanted, without reason. It might look cool, everyone else is doing it, it seemed like a good thing to do at the moment, a friend encouraged me to do it–these are common justifications that are in no cases actual reasons.Â
Daniel denies the existence of wisdom and the real life experience of so many people who made the mistake of getting "inked" and then, in retrospect, hate what they have done.
Tattoos are so widely regarded as wrong headed, to honor what young people want to do, for no good reason, is a mistake.
It takes very little imagination to know full well that the thoughts and tastes of a 20 year old will almost never be the same when that person is 40 or 50 years old. Who would really want their thoughts inked on their bodies for posterity?
People speak about how chocolate cake as a guilty pleasure. The intentional permanent scarring of one's body does not taste as good as chocolate cake and the downside lasts for more than one day–it is therefore guilty without the pleasure.
And Daniel, at 65, I will not be neither misshapen nor ugly at age 65.
What looks cool, sexy, empowering or even basically legible when you're
twenty-five, will look misshapen and ugly when you're sixty-five.
When you're sixty-five, you'll look misshapen and ugly. The presence or absence of tattoos won't be much of a factor. Forecasts about what might make you happy in forty years are a) almost certainly off by a considerable margin and therefore b) shouldn't be a determining constraint on what you do to make yourself happy now.Â
Even if I weren't Jewish, I'd never get a tattoo. My reason is simple. Unless you're blessed with good genes, your skin will wrinkle and sag as you age. What looks cool, sexy, empowering or even basically legible when you're twenty-five, will look misshapen and ugly when you're sixty-five. So unless you relish the prospect of a painful and scarring removal procedure somewhere down the line, I wouldn't bother. That's what henna and rub-ons are for.
What is the strong interest in getting a tatoo? I think all would agree that a permanent tatoo is at least disfavored by Judaism. Doesn't that outweigh the desire for a tatoo in most cases? I respect what Faith has written about her own reasons and can understand her approach. But, I'm guessing that most Jews arent't in the same place as Faith. Â
I can understand doing something disfavored in Judaism when there is a compelling reason or sometimes just because of overwelming convenience. What I don't understand is why a Jew would want a tatoo so much given the baggage that comes with it in terms of Judaism or even just how other Jews feel about it (again, I'm not talking about someone like Faith who has expressed a strong value judgment about why she wanted tatoos). What am I missing?
my reasons for not getting a tattoo have nothing to do with religion…it's because i'm a total wuss when it comes to needles and i could never decide on anything i like even if i were to get one.
 "this is why Faith and Stacey (among many dozens who read these blogs
and do not post responses since they wish to remain private) have
quickly fallen for your encouragement"
Although I am extremely fond of Tamar, I have never used anything she said to justify getting a tattoo. I have had tattoos for many many years and I have posted the reasons above.
Being able to tolerate living in my body meant getting a tattoo, (and you can argue all you want that I had other options). I am not "proud to have a tattoo", rather I am confronted on a daily basis with something that is abhorrent to me and I have covered it in art. Halachic or not, and I believe an argument could be made for halachic, I have done it.
It's interesting reading all of your comments, and I think on this subject there will be those who either strictly follow the rules of the Torah, and those who believe the Torah is open to different interpretations. Some people use religion as a shield for every thought they have and a way to explain everything. This can be good, because for generations Jews have constantly needed to have faith in something that would explain everything to them, if that makes sense.Â
A couple months ago my cousin came home with a tattoo and my aunt and uncle flipped out when they found out. When they found out that it was a pink ribbon with the words MOM in the middle, they chilled out a bit, because it was a tribute my cousin chose to put on her body to remind herself of her mom overcoming her struggle with breast cancer. How can you judge someone when the tattoo they are choosing to put on themselves for all of eternity is one that has meaning to them and one that they feel needs to be an integral part of who they are. Needless to say my uncle was still furious and we don't really talk about the subject anymore. I just think that it is a personal decision whether or not to get inked and we should respect the decisions as such. I don't think G-D would want us to be fighting over such subjects when the action of getting a tattoo does not physically hurt anyone else.
I thank you Tamar for responding and I am pleased that you believe you can have your mind changed. Please understand that I am here to offer you a compliment–you have enough at stake as a Jew that your Judaism is included into your identity and your values. From the beginning (perhaps a couple of months ago), my problem has been your consistent penchant to speak in contradictions and offer opinion inconsistent with normative Judaism. At first, your response was simple and cold–you claimed that I am traditional and you are not. As a further contradiction, I now read that you very supportive about Jewish values and you want to have a good name. It is great that you wish to have a good name–this is vitally important. My issue with your writing remains that you are speaking out of both sides of your mouth–please consider the criticism and understand that I say it in context of ahavat yisrael and because I think you are a fine person.
On this topic, you headline that nice Jews can get tatooed and then parenthetically that it is forbidden. You absolutely are promoting its practice when you write such an entry and this is why Faith and Stacey (among many dozens who read these blogs and do not post responses since they wish to remain private) have quickly fallen for your encouragement. The explanation that you are only speaking about temporary tatooes is disingenuous in the same manner that you might complain that a stand in favor of hanky panky only involves touching and kissing and not things sexual.
The upside of hanky panky, its positive principle or goal, just like the upside potential of making permanent marks on one's body is not there. It is merely something that one may "like" or wish to do–normally with deep regrets later. It was the merit of the Israelites in ancient Egypt that they held to their own form of dress and did not adapt the fashion of the Egyptians. No doubt that when the Helenized Greeks undertook an operation to have their circumcisions reversed–they called it a private and personal matter and not something that was against God's law.
I did not say that you suggest that nice, good Jews violate the Shabbos, eat non-Kosher and have pre-marital and extra marital sex–although you remind me that yes, you have staked a stand in favor of pre-marital sex. The point of my argument it is one thing for a Jew to violate Shabbos or eat non-Kosher or even to have a bad sexual mistake–it is quite another to promote it. If you believe you have not promoted pre-marital sex or tatooes (among other things)–you need to re-type your postings. When someone observes the fact that nice Jews violate the law in some way–this is NO ARGUMENT in favor of removing the law. This is my bottom line point and when I made it regarding your stated, explicit defense of hanky panky–you did not respond or defend your words.
Stacey, I understand you do not observe Jewish belief and practice but you have stated you you have a relationship the Almighty so I assume you believe you can do things which are pleasing to God and some which are not pleasing. Why might you wish to undertake something which you have been warned is forbidden by the law and you believe would be overlooked? It is true, I ate 2 fish sandwiches at a Burger King –since I keep kosher, in context, I hope this matter might be overlooked since it is not a permanent mark and I had no other practical option at that moment. On the other hand, going out of your way to make a permanent mark that is specifically forbidden without explanation as to why you want it–is another matter. And you may be surprised concerning your future–it could be a frum man or it could be YOU who turns towards tradition and you will have a physical reminder of a sin. I hope that is something to think about and I really wish you the best.
Point being that if we all go looking into judging one's body, in terms of having tattoos, are we rightly justified ourselves in doing so? As I said before let the Almighty decide, people are not supreme rulers, if you want a tattoo it should be for a valid reason, and that valid reason could be just for the sake of inscribing something very special to you, but hey thats personal and it means a lot to some people, including myself. Someones Jewish character should never be defined based upon their disposition in getting 'body art.' After all, if we have even committed one sin, are we not then imperfect ourselves, what better are we to judge the actions of another? I appreciate all the insight, rebuttle, and refutations to specific claims, but the point here is that sometimes, body art is a form of self-expression, and in this sense, whether 'liberal' or whatever you might choose to call it, it still remains a very personal issue, that should not be judged by the mouth of men, or women for that matter – inherently we are all humans, and imperfect in multiple respects.
-Marc
i never said this tattoo would be on my 'private parts'. that would be gross. i meant my hip. ok, now that that's clear, my reasons for getting my ???? tattoo:
the values i was speaking of are not that i value being tattooed, which in your opinion, equates me with sailors and hookers. these values are personal, and i probably wouldn't normally post this on a website without anonymity, but now i feel i have to defend myself. and now is the time i get disgustingly sentimental. love/???? is the most important thing in my life. without the love of my friends and family, i don't know where i would be. love is something i think everyone deserves to find, and i anxiously await the day that i fall madly in love with an intelligent, witty, adorable, indie-rock listening jew and we live happily ever after and send our kids to hebrew school, even though they will complain endlessly about going, just like we did. now is your time to say, "but stacey, if he's jewish he may not approve of your tattoo." to that i say, if he loves me and respects me, it won't be an issue. i probably wouldn't want to marry someone who is exceedingly more religious than me anyways. the fact that it will be hebrew reflects pride in my culture and my love for the hebrew language. i never said it would "help me hold higher beliefs or be a better jew," or "bring me closer to G-d" for that matter.
maybe i won't get that tattoo, but maybe i will. i do appreciate your insight, and i am definitely more hesitant now. however, as someone who doesn't keep kosher, doesn't observe the sabbath, and only goes to synagogue on the high holy days, your reasons do not have as strong of an effect on me as i'm sure you would have hoped. to answer your question, yes, i believe that G-d would overlook my having a tattoo. i do feel that I have a relationship without G-d, even though I am not a practicing jew. i do other things 'prohibited' and do not follow certain commandments, so i don't see why this would have a profound effect on the way G-d sees me.
David, I hate responding to you because you seem to always intentionally miss the point and spiral things into a realm of the absolutely absurd, just so you can stay on your soap box.
You wrote: First for Tamar, I can change my mind if I can be convinced of a higher
or better truth than I hold–why not you?
I can be convinced of a higher or better truth, and many times I have been so convinced by comments on this blog. Never by you.
Twice, you want to direct me
to read what suits my own point of view and I wonder why? I would want
you to direct yourself to opposing points of view so you can have your
own very immature understandings challenged. This is the point of
being a young person and for me, I wish to always stand to have my
beliefs challenged.
I agree that it's important to have one's point of view challenged, and I'm happy to be challenged, but you rarely seem to be able to stick to the topic at hand without freewheeling into criticism of my personal life, which doesn't exactly lend credibility to your cause. If you're looking to have your mind opened, but you think I'm immature and not a "good" Jew, then why not start reading a different blog, written by someone who's more mature, and a better Jew? I really think it's great that you want to have your ideas challenged, but I've never seen you bend on a single issue, so I find that somewhat hard to believe.
On the topic, you refuse to defend what you have
written and while you acknowledge it is forbidden, you are here, on
this blog, to promote the practice. By your own stated terms, you are
here to promote a practice you admit is forbidden.Â
I am not here on this blog to promote its practice. I say expressly that it's forbidden to get a permanent tattoo. I really don't know how you think I'm promoting a getting a tattoo by saying it's forbidden, but if that's really what you think you're misunderstanding me.
Is there anything
at all odd about doing this? What is the point, what is the GOAL of the
practice of having one's body inked? You have not made any case, any
argument at all concerning why someone you are influencing should do
it–except to indicate your sense that good Jews do it–of course,
"good" Jews have pre-marital and extra-marital sex, "good" Jews violate
Shabbos, "good" Jews eat non-kosher foods, etc.Â
People get tattoos because they like the way they look. You may not be into it, but some people are. Again, I never say that anyone–good Jew or bad Jew–should get a tattoo. I say that it would be cool to get the temporary variety, which is perfectly halachic as far as I know. As for your claim that good Jews can have extra-marital sex, violate Shabbat, or eat non-kosher food, I challenge you to find me making any of those claims in a post on this site or anywhere. I would never say that, and I never have said that and I'll thank you not to defame my name by implying I ever have or would.Â
My consistent
complaint with you is that you refuse to lay out any distinction
between you as a secular liberal and you as a "good" Jew. Please
respond.
First of all, I'm not sure where I ever claim to be a good Jew. And I'm not a secular liberal because I keep Shabbat, and Kashrut, and daven daily, and give tzedakah, and learn Torah, and engage with Jewish texts and Jewish communities as much as I can. But if those things make me a secular liberal then I'm a secular liberal. And that's fine with me. It's only you who seems to have a problem with that.
BTW, A Jew with a tattoo can be buried in a Jewish cemetery
because ANY Jew can be buried in a Jewish cemetery–including a
murderer.
Yes, you and I know that, but I wanted to make it clear to people who may have gotten tattoos in their youth and are now afraid they won't be able to be buried with their families that whatever rumors they may have heard are not true. Â Â
First for Tamar, I can change my mind if I can be convinced of a higher or better truth than I hold–why not you? Twice, you want to direct me to read what suits my own point of view and I wonder why? I would want you to direct yourself to opposing points of view so you can have your own very immature understandings challenged. This is the point of being a young person and for me, I wish to always stand to have my beliefs challenged. On the topic, you refuse to defend what you have written and while you acknowledge it is forbidden, you are here, on this blog, to promote the practice. By your own stated terms, you are here to promote a practice you admit is forbidden. Is there anything at all odd about doing this? What is the point, what is the GOAL of the practice of having one's body inked? You have not made any case, any argument at all concerning why someone you are influencing should do it–except to indicate your sense that good Jews do it–of course, "good" Jews have pre-marital and extra-marital sex, "good" Jews violate Shabbos, "good" Jews eat non-kosher foods, etc. My consistent complaint with you is that you refuse to lay out any distinction between you as a secular liberal and you as a "good" Jew. Please respond. BTW, A Jew with a tattoo can be buried in a Jewish cemetery because ANY Jew can be buried in a Jewish cemetery–including a murderer.
Regarding Stacey, you have surely misread what I have written. I have asked you to consider the positives and negatives of the action. Tamar has told you it is forbidden–I will say that every Torah Jew understands it is an aveirah. I am not here to throw a book of Jewish law at you, rather, the opposite, I am asking you to merely think through your actions and how it affects yourself and others. Please lay out the positive aspects of having your body inked on your private parts. What is the upside of doing this? Then, please consider the fact that thousands of people quickly come to regret making this choice and it is painful to remove. Further, please understand the point that many potential husbands would assess you negatively for voluntarily paying money to commit a sin and I do not at all have frum men in mind. It is true that some men would not object at all to you having a tattoo or if you smoked cigarettes.If someone suggested that you stop smoking for yourself and for others, you would likely stop the practice–why one case and not the other?
You will make your choice, obviously. Since you have stated that having your body marked with permanent ink represents "your Judaism, your beliefs and your values"–please tell me which values and beliefs are in play with this practice and since the traditional practitioners of the practice are sailors, prostitutes and pagans like the now ever-popular Wiccans-please describe how partaking in the practice will help you hold higher beliefs or be a better Jew since it seems that the normal practitioners are precisely the OPPOSITE in orientation from Jewish life and practice.
I am very pleased to read that you have something at stake in knowing how God knows you. Therefore, is getting the tattoo bringing you closer to God or is it one of those matters you hope and trust God will overlook?
Unlike Tamar, I want to be convincing and I believe I could change your mind. You could change mine if you address my questions in good faith with good rebuttal. If you do not or cannot, I hope you will consider what I have said.Â
Cavanaugh, I do not wish to make light of any of the mitzvot concerning how to treat a ger or giving tzedakah. Both are truly important things–that is not the topic of this headline and I do not lack perspective merely because I have responded to the topic. I am responding since it is needlessly sensational and can influence people in the wrong direction. The law is for man and the Noahide laws pertain to all men, including those laws under attack on this blog.
great reply, cavanaugh. david, there really are more important things in the world to me than finding a jewish man who follows halacha by the book. it offends me that you would think otherwise. women make decisions these days that do not revolve around whether or not our future husbands would approve. yes, i want to marry someone jewish, but i'm not going to change who i am for his approval. if i do get that tattoo, it would not be visible to anyone, even in a swimsuit, so therefore no so-called "good jews" will be able to judge me. but that shouldn't even matter. this is something i have been thinking about for a long time, to reflect my values, beliefs and MY judaism, not yours. i have a strong connection to my jewish heritage, but i am not very religious. you can argue all you want, and try to convince me to do the "right thing" but this is a decision i need to make myself.
oh, and i know some deeply religious christians who have tattoos. so much for that argument. i'm also not too worried that G-d is going to confuse me for a pagan. He knows me better than that…
"Can you look into the future and trust that the Jewish man of your
dreams shares this non-Jewish belief system? I can tell you can trust
that an atheist man has this belief system–if this is the man you
seek–I can say nothing to stop you. If you *might* be interested in a
Jew–do the right thing and don't do it. The Jewish woman that is on
the inside will be discounted by the markings on the outside."
David, it seems to me that the argument you make here is as follows:
1) You might wish to get married to a Jewish man
2) Jewish men don't like women with tattoos
3) You shouldn't get a tattoo
That's a perfectly logical progression, but it rests on some pretty shaky assumptions. To make those more obvious, let's turn it around:
1) You might wish to get married to a Jewish woman
2) Jewish women don't like men who are overweight
3) You shouldn't get overweight
There can be lots of good reasons to eat healthy and exercise, but one of them is not the hypothetical wishes of a hypothetical future mate, which can't be known until such time as the future mate ceases to be hypothetical and becomes actual, or at least possible; i.e. until you meet them. Similar arguments are much less frequently made to men, largely because our aspirations are generally acknowledged to be more complex than who we would like to get married to. Let us extend the same complexity of aspiration to women who choose to get tattooed: Perhaps the wishes of a hypothetical future mate are not their top priority. Which is as it should be. If I made all my decisions based on the possible opinions of who I might want to marry (see our other conversation), I'd be in very poor shape indeed. It's this same attitude that leads some women to unhealthy obsession with their appearance, which you've pointed out as a bad thing.
"Some may do a better job of doing the right thing but at any moment
doing something positive or refraining from doing something forbidden
might be the action that will tilt Hashem's judgment in our favor. The
truth is all too obvious–doing the right thing is better than doing
the wrong thing and one becomes a better person by doing the right
thing and refraining from doing forbidden things."
This is a truism, and as such both uncontroversial and meaningless. Being good is better than being bad, so it's good to be good. The question is, as always, what does it mean to be good and to do right? Let us say that, for reasons like those described by Faith, or perhaps entirely different but still personally compelling ones, a religious Jew has a strong desire to get a tattoo. Perhaps this desire, for reasons unknown to you or I, distresses them a great deal. If they can put aside the strong desire to mark their bodies permanently by using the Jewish tradition of henna marking or the modern development of temporary tattoos, is this admirable or reproachable in the eyes of Hashem?
"Jews are not allowed to desecrate our bodies since bodies belong to
Hashem but more importantly, a tatooed body is a mark of paganism.Â
Attempting to skirt the law with a temporary marking is also disallowed
by halacha (as if halacha had any import at all with this crowd) and a
Jew with such a marking cannot be distinguished from a pagan"
Aside from the question of what desecration actually means, Faith points out that in Leviticus this applies to tattooing marks on ourselves as a form of mourning. Marking the body as a form of mourning was a pagan custom at the time, I presume; I haven't looked that up. You say that it's because marking the body (at all) is the sign of the pagan and a Jew who marks on their skin is indistinguishable from a pagan; surely G-d would not be confused by seeing a mark on the skin? Other Jews, maybe, but the Talmud says to give people the benefit of the doubt. If you see a Jew with a tattoo, in my interpretation, you're supposed to assume it's temporary or they've repented–or perhaps their relationship with G-d is just different from your own, or perhaps they're a convert.
This makes me start to wonder, and forgive me because I'm new at this, are the laws primarily for Jewish people, or are they for G-d? Is it the relationship with other Jews that matters most? This may be so, because many of the laws deal with how we treat our fellow Jews and strangers. If so, it makes sense to say that one should not mark the skin in a way that might make other Jews think you're a pagan. But if it's the relationship with G-d that matters most, then the opinions of other Jews are pretty moot–G-d is not going to be confused by a tattoo, temporary or otherwise. G-d may be angry about a tattoo, but really that's between the individual and G-d and any Rabbi consulted.Â
And then again, some Jews are just going to feel like certain of the halacha don't apply anymore–just as some Jews have always felt, since the days when the Rabbis agreed that stoning disobedient children was probably not such a mitzvah after all. I sympathize with you that you see this as a problem. For myself, I feel a strong desire to keep it in perspective. The halacha pertaining to tzedakah are so much more stressed throughout the tradition, and yet so often ignored. I wonder why it is so tempting to make more of a temporary tattoo than miserliness or being nasty to gerim.
David, I find it generally an exercise in futility to engage with you. You're not going to change my mind and I'm clearly not going to change yours. I'm happy that you're a reader of Jewcy and are interested in expanding your horizons in some ways, but I would think that at some point you'd rather spend your time reading something that was more in line with your point of view.Â
The title of this post was written to generate readership. I'm a writer–that's my job, to get people interested. Then, I immediately say that getting tattooed is forbidden, which it is, but also that a person with tattoos can be buried in a Jewish cemetery because I think it's important that people with tattoos know that what they've done in the past doesn't preclude their ability to be a part of the community if they want to be.  I'd love to get a cool temp tattoo, and that's my choice, and David, though I respect you on some level, I think your hysteria is misplaced here.
Thus, we have the spectacle of a writer, Tamar, encouraging other Jews to get tatooed under the headline of "nice Jewish boys and girls can get inked" and when questioned, she states: "I don't condone it" and "tatoos are forbidden." Huh? This is not simply more double talk–it is confounding. Tamar, why not for once defend your writing? Why not have the courage of your convictions? What are your convictions–or is there only confusion? Better to simply defend what you are here to defend–what is the defense for inking one's body?
To answer the question why I post on a blog loaded with all kinds of anti-Jewish sentiment–this is not a difficult question to answer. First, I recall that the Left once upon of time wanted and encouraged debate. Now, there is no tolerance for a difference of opinion. True, I do not run to "Move On.com" to respond to a group of individuals off the deep end. On this blog if there are not individuals with at least something at stake in being Jewish–I will eat my kippah. Therefore, why the embarrassment that a Jew might take offense at every manner of thought directed at Judaism? The table of contents is impressive in its sheer volume of disgust with the Jewish message and therefore in support of so many things against Torah Judaism, in this particular case, in favor of "getting inked."
Jews are not allowed to desecrate our bodies since bodies belong to Hashem but more importantly, a tatooed body is a mark of paganism. Attempting to skirt the law with a temporary marking is also disallowed by halacha (as if halacha had any import at all with this crowd) and a Jew with such a marking cannot be distinguished from a pagan. Indeed, almost no serious Christian would ever get a tatoo, fake or real.
The spectacle of a blog with some pretense of being Jewish in support of so many things of no Jewish value must get a response from the community at large.Â
As for Marc Hessel's defensiveness over being an idolater and stating that we all sin, that we all sin is correct and that Hashem is the final judge is also correct. It is, absolutely fair-minded to judge actions if not people. I would never suggest that God favors me over anyone else but I can be sure that I am better for respecting my body than if I ran out and messed it up. On that count, I am equally clear that I am better not injecting myself with cocaine or having illicit sex. "Judging leads to negativity" says Marc–so one cannot judge another's actions Marc? Is this your point of view? Jewcy is so loaded with negative judgments it is quite impressive. Of course, those at the Yeshiva at Flatbush are to be judged quickly and harshly for standing in support of Torah, aren't they? But if we are speaking about getting as much hanky panky as one can get or wish to ink our bodies with ugly markings, those actions cannot be judged? Is this your stand? Â
The final argument is so bizarre it is striking, it comes from someone who is proud to be "Inked" –you see no one is speaking about fake tatoos but the real kind. "Just because one follows the rules does not one automatically a good person," Marc says. Good grief. This clearly suggests that no one should follow any law since following a law does not not automatically make one a better person. For almost everyone, going the right thing is not something that is so easily hedged. If we come to dishonor a law, even a minor one, it is not because we wish to stand in opposition to the law–it is because we missed the goal and we hope to do better next time. Some may do a better job of doing the right thing but at any moment doing something positive or refraining from doing something forbidden might be the action that will tilt Hashem's judgment in our favor. The truth is all too obvious–doing the right thing is better than doing the wrong thing and one becomes a better person by doing the right thing and refraining from doing forbidden things.
As Marc lobbies Stacey to go for it and have her body inked, I will quickly encourage her to refrain from doing something so many people, even many non-Jews, come to regret. In doing what is "the best that inside of you," as a Jew, you will be seen by other Jews on Jewish terms. If you explain that you are like Marc and Tamar and you want to have your own Judaism, not "how others view Judaism" and that you do not wished to have your actions judged–think for a moment how this might sound to another Jew. Can you look into the future and trust that the Jewish man of your dreams shares this non-Jewish belief system? I can tell you can trust that an atheist man has this belief system–if this is the man you seek–I can say nothing to stop you. If you *might* be interested in a Jew–do the right thing and don't do it. The Jewish woman that is on the inside will be discounted by the markings on the outside.
If someone wants to say that any man who would not wish to be with a Jewish woman with visible tatoos is not worth having anyway–those same women spend an intense amount of time obsessing about every little wrinkle or imperfection in their body–why bother if it is what is on the inside that counts?Â
hah thanks, marc. the jewcy shin sure is tempting. i would make the case that it could also be a shin for stacey, but according to my israeli friends, stacey is spelled with a samekh instead. oh well. i still need to think about it a lot more before i make a definite decision (i'm no longer talking about the jewcy shin), but i appreciate the encouragement. :)
Go for it Stacey, however you might want to reconsider not getting the Jewcy.com shin on your buttcheek. Its best to know that in any case you should do whats best in terms of representing the Judaism thats inside of you, not how others view Judaism, its your Jewish identity that makes you who you are, not an idealized perception.
-M
i like this thread. i’ve been contemplating getting a tattoo for a few years now, an ‘????’ somewhere hidden, but i’m too scared of commitment and then there’s the whole forbidden-in-judaism thing. so, it’s comforting reading that there are plenty of inked nice jewish girls and boys out there.
also- tamar, well said re: david. if he is so vehemently opposed to everything jewcy writers have to say, he should find a new homepage.
Thank you Cavanaugh and Marc.
Great post faith, first let me say I am sorry about your prior experience – no one ever needs that in their life, and I agree with you on our bodies being forms of art. I would have never gotten a tattoo without first recognizing the value of what I was doing first. Most would contend that there is no value to getting tattoos, or more correctly put, body art. I for one believe that there is a lot more to ones character than just the body art he/she possesses. If I am an idolater by inking my body, then I am in violation of Torah, and this makes me a sub-standard Jew? Absolutely not, I still daven daily, attend minyan, participate in the entire Jewish life cycle, all recognizing that what makes me unique is I am proud to represent my heritage, and if its body art then albeit, but never should anyone make assumptions as to someones Jewish character because of body art, because if we were to put this in perspective, everyone has sinned, many Jews fornicate, many Jews misrepresent Judaism through narrow-minded perspectives. Then a person with body art is justly wrong according to Torah? If I am wrong according to Torah, but the people that are telling me that I am wrong themselves have no room to judge, that what better are they then? Let G-d do the judging let us Jews speak for ourselves through our actions as decent, kind, loving, and wise human beings. Judging leads to negativity, and negativity leads to dispute, dispute leads to dislike, dislike leads to prejudice viewpoints, and this is the ultimate arrogance, must we let it come to this?
P.S.
I will direct, those who are interest in a documentary film by Andy Abrams, whom I have kept in touch with off and on for almost 2 years now, I sent Andy the link to this forum, and invited him to speak on behalf of his views. I am waiting to hear back. His website can be found at:
http://www.tattoojewmovie.com/
And as for my next tattoo, I think I am going to take up Tamar’s idea of the butt cheek tat. This next ones for you girl!
Kind regards,
-M
Right on Arsim!
loved reading everyones responses! i’m proud to be a tattoed jew (x4) and as someone who is ‘mamash chiloni’ obviously it doesn’t bother me. i still respect the torah and it’s basic values and principles, that being said however, i think it’s been proven time and time again that just because someone might follow a bunch of rules and rituals that doesn’t automatically make them a good person. i’ll leave it at that before i go on a whole diatribe here. let me just say, no more jewish guilt! come to tel aviv ‘cos we’re representing in full force! peace+love
I don’t have time to look up cites, but a google search found this conservative responsa at http://www.myjewishlearning.com/daily_life/TheBody/Adorning_the_Body/Tattoo.htm
“Tattooing is an explicit prohibition from the Torah. However, those who violate this prohibition may be buried in a Jewish cemetery and participate fully in all synagogue ritual. While no sanctions are imposed, the practice should continue to be discouraged as a violation of the Torah. At all times a Jew should remember that we are created b’tzelem Elokim. We are called upon to incorporate this understanding into all our decisions.”
___
If you’re really interested check the Mishneh Torah, Laws of Idolatry 12:11.
This discussion has assumed that getting a tattoo is, per se, a violation of a Torah prohibition. Is that correct? Or is the Torah prohibition limited to scarification as a _mourning_ technique? Halachic sources, rather than “I know,” would be most useful.
Beautiful comment, Faith. Thank you.
Let me give you my take on this topic, as a Jew with ink.
I am a sexual assault survivor. I have spent approximately 25 years in mostly a hate-hate relationship with the body I have. It has betrayed me terribly throughout the years.
Having said that, none of my tattoos were taken on lightly. None of them were done in an intoxicated state. The act of tattooing, at least for me, was about taking my body back. About me taking my body and turning it into art I can appreciate, if not be thankful for. Here is some of what went into my decision:
Leviticus 19:27-28 prohibits 4 different acts of mourning. These are:
1) Making a bald spot on the head as an act of mourning
2) Shaving the beard as an act of mourning
3) Cutting the skin as an act of mourning
4) Writing on the skin as an act of mourning
The text is as follows:“You shall not cut the hair on the sides of your heads, neither shall you clip off the edge of your beard.You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you. I am G-d.â€
This is where we get our biblical prohibition against tattoos. Interestingly, the inscribing of tattoos as an act of mourning is the most elusive in the list. It is only mentioned once in Lev. 19:28 and then never discussed again.
Professor Aaron Demsky of Bar-Ilan University, in an article in the 100 lb., Encyclopaedia Judaica, goes even further to suggest that tattooing may have been permitted in biblical times. He cites the following biblical references: “One shall say, ‘I am the Lord’s,’ and another shall use the name of Jacob, and another shall mark his arm ‘of the Lord’ and adopt the name of Israel” (Isaiah 44:5), “See, I have engraved You on the palms of my hands…” (Isaiah 49:16), and ” …is a sign on every man’s hand that all men may know His doings” (Job 37:7).
Dr. Demsky suggests that tattooing was sanctioned as long as the tattoos did not brand you for another god.
Today, however, being tattooed voluntarily, according to those who write the rules, is a violation of the commandments.
A lot of things violate commandments. This one happens to be visible.
Tamar,
I got this -> (http://www.jewcy.com/node/11584) tattoo back in 2004 and it stirred up quite a bit of controversy. But I believed even being Jewish myself, that theres more to someone’s character as a temple of G-d than a tattoo, but if I am to get tattooed it will be something of interesting notion, this was made after closely examining my father’s heritage and the Ashirite Jews of Ethiopia. More or less a tattoo representing a personal statement of heritage.
Kindest regards,
-M
Pains was meant to be paints. I changed it, but pains was pretty funny.
Tarfon–You added that still, though I admit the sentence was confusing. Actually, maybe you didn’t know that a side effect of having a tattoo is ability to daven even after death… :)
David–If you look, you’ll see that I say expressly that having a tattoo is forbidden. I don’t condone Jews getting tattoos, but it’s important for people to know that whatever bubbemaisas they may have heard are incorrect. Here’s my question to you: If you find my writing and the rest of Jewcy so offensive, why read it? Torah.org is calling your name…
Is there anything left that is surely forbidden by Torah that is thought to be OK by the Jewcy writers?
Is Judaism to be redefined as some kind of a circus show?
I’m glad to learn that, “In other words, [tattoos are] definitely a no-no, but if you’ve got one, you can definitely be buried near your family, and fully participate in all synagogue rituals.” It is such a relief to know that, as long as I get a tattoo, when my time comes, I can be buried in the right place and _still_ participate in all synagogue rituals.
Clearly, what Tamar meant is that people who get temporary tattoos are invited to pretend it hurts for authenticity points.
"May I suggest a big Jewcy tattoo on your left butt cheek?"
 Er, ok. But if I get it on the right cheek, will folks assume I'm a gay Yeshiva U. alum?Â
"…Temptu, a New York supplier of mock tattoos and body pains…."
I really hope you meant "paints." Then again, maybe some people go for mock body pains. Who am I to judge?Â
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