Religion & Beliefs
New York Is My Israel
By Lilit Marcus / November 3, 2009
Others say, Law is our Fate; Others say, Law is our State; Others say, others say Law is no more, Law has gone away. And always the loud angry crowd, Very angry and very loud, Law is We, And always the soft idiot softly Me.
- W.H. Auden, "Law Like Love"
This summer, I was fortunate enough to spend three weeks in Israel. While there, I met a wide variety of Israelis, from the descendants of Palmach fighters to the recent immigrants. So often, people told me how grateful they were for the existence of a Jewish state – even if they lived elsewhere in the world, they were comforted by the knowledge that there was a place where any Jew could go to escape persecution and be welcomed immediately. On one level, I agree with this – although I’m fortunate enough not to have lost any relatives in the Shoah, I grew up in a place where it was not always safe or prudent to acknowledge being Jewish in public. Yet, as much as I started to become enamored with the country and the people of Israel, one thing kept me from loving it completely – the knowledge that, if I did want to move there, I probably wouldn’t be welcome. As those of you who have read my previous writing on Jewcy know, I’m the product of an interfaith marriage, and my Jewish parent is my father. That’s immediately a problem for many Jews, who believe I should convert and that Jewishness can only be inherited via one’s mother. Luckily, the services I attend are Reform ones, and the Reform movement accepts patrilineal descent. I’ve also had the opportunity to study with rabbis whose primary concern is that I want to learn more about my faith, not about what my dad thinks or whether he had a bar mitzvah.
In America, in the capital of American Jewry, I’ve found a place where I can be the exact kind of Jew I want to be. In Israel? If I tried to move there I’d probably be turned away at the door like a boatful of pilgrims ordered by the British troops not to enter Palestine. The Orthodox ruling class of rabbis would want no part of a girl who doesn’t have a Jewish mother and didn’t go through a conversion (and, if I did go through one, it wouldn’t be Orthodox, and therefore wouldn’t "count"). My problem with the Jewish state is that, well, it’s a state. That means that Israel has to have the necessary elements of a nation, like a national governing body. And when that governing body allows certain rabbis to make rules about who is and isn’t a Jew, it takes things out of the realm of personal preference and into the books of laws. Why should I donate money or exert political influence for a country that probably wouldn’t let me become a citizen? [Author's Note: For more details on how Israel classifies people from interfaith backgrounds, please read this post by Robin Margolis.]
New York is my Israel. Here, there’s no litmus test for what makes a Jew – sure, we argue about it, and each denomination has its own definition, but there are enough synagogues and independent minyans to choose from that everyone is bound to find a place they like. For every person who has sniffed and deemed me an irredeemable Gentile, there are two or three who accept me just as I am. It’s not about who my family members are or whether they believe in Judaism; it’s not about what some rabbi somewhere has decreed. The same people decrying the end of the Jewish people and the death of our culture are often the same ones refusing to allow admittance to anyone who does not meet their exacting standard of Jewishness.
As for me? I’ll take my own little Jerusalem, in an apartment that overlooks the East River, where the only person who cares about what defines me as a Jew is me.
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See, this is why I love the traditional German Neo-Orthodox (who based themselves on Golden Age Moorish-Spain pre-Reconquista Jewish culture) and the Judeo-Spanish (Turkish, Balkan, Italian, English, Dutch) approach (who followed post-Reconquista Catholic-Spain Jewish culture).
Rabbi Benzion Uziel, a 20th century Turkish rabbi, variously the chief rabbi in Israel and Salonika (Greece), was adamant and blunt on this matter. According to Rabbi Marc Angel (at http://www.jewishideas.org/min-hamuvhar/conversion-judaism-halakha-hashkafa-and-histori and at http://www.traditiononline.org/news/article.cfm?id=103898):
"Rabbi Uziel was deeply concerned about the fate of children born to a Jewish father and a non-Jewish mother. Such children, although of Jewish stock (zera yisrael), are in fact not halakhically Jewish. Children raised in such intermarriages will be lost to the Jewish people entirely. Thus, it is obligatory for rabbis to convert the non-Jewish mother in order to keep the children in the Jewish fold. Rabbi Uziel noted: "And I fear that if we push them [the children] away completely by not accepting their parents for conversion, we shall be brought to judgment and they shall say to us: ‘You did not bring back those who were driven away, and those who were lost you did not seek.’ (Yehezkel 34:4)." In another responsum, Rabbi Uziel wrote: "I admit without embarrassment that my heart is filled with trembling for every Jewish soul that is assimilated among the non-Jews. I feel in myself a duty and mitzvah to open a door to repentance and to save [Jews] from assimilation by [invoking] arguments for leniency. This is the way of Torah, in my humble opinion, and this is what I saw and received from my parents and teachers.""
(For Rabbi Uziel’s views in general, see http://www.jewishideas.org/responsa/responsa-of-rabbi-uziel. For the background of Rabbi Uziel’s view, for those who came before him and provided the technical halakhic basis for his view, see http://www.jewishideas.org/responsa/halakhic-conversion-of-non-religious-candidates and http://www.jewishideas.org/articles/retroactive-annulment-giyyur-conversion.)
Rabbi Dr. Eliezer Berkovits (one of the Germans) discusses this issue of Reform and Conservative converts and children of intermarriages in: “Conversion According to Halakhah”, in Crisis and Faith, New York: Sanhedrin Press, 1976, pp. 122-131. As noted on p. vii in Crisis and Faith, this essay is very similar to another by the same author: "Conversion ‘According to Halacha’: What Is It", in Judaism 23:4, Fall 1974, pp. 467-478. This latter essay has been reprinted as "Conversion and the Decline of the Oral Law", in Essential Essays on Judaism, ed. David Hazony, Jerusalem: Shalem Press, 2002, pp. 89-102. This essay in its entirety is found at http://books.google.co.il/books?id=7wUOLOpev2gC&pg=PA89&dq=conversion+and+the+decline+of+the+oral+law+1974&hl=en#v=onepage&q=&f=false .
First, on pp. 89ff of Essential Essays, he introduces his position by spelling out some healthy philosophical skepticism and humility (Rabbi Berkovits had a doctorate in philosophy from the University of Berlin):
"Apart from the practical considerations, there is also a moral question to be raised. By insisting that in matters of conversion the Orthodox view must prevail exclusively, we have, of course, stated that our numerous non-Orthodox brothers and sisters have to be excluded from having any say in such a vital issue as what it means to be a Jew. Do we have the moral right to make such demands? It is true that we maintain that Torah is revealed to the Jewish people by God, and therefore, the law regarding conversion has divine authority. I, too, believe that, together with all Orthodox Jews. Nevertheless, I cannot overlook the fact that, no matter how strongly I believe it, it is still only my personal belief. And if there are tens of thousands of us who believe, the faith in Torah "from heaven" will still remain <i>our</i> belief. No matter how convincing our reasons and our proofs for the faith may be for us, they will still be no more than reasons and proofs <i>for us</i>; enough for me, clear and convincing, like the brilliance of a clear and cool morning, yet inseparable from my subjectivity. it is true that our opinion in this matter of conversion is identical with that of the great Torah scholars of our generation. But again, this too is our recognition of their greatness. If we should be mistaken, if the great Tora scholars themselves should be mistaken, then their own greatness would be of little consequence. But of course, we are right, our faith is true, and the greatness of the "great ones" is unquestionable. Indeed – so we believe. That Tora is "from heaven," <i>min hashamayim</i>, so I believe; but I cannot help recognizing that the fact that I so believe does not make my belief a faith that is itself from heaven. The Tora is from heaven, but my faith that it is o is not; neither is my interpretation of hte meaning and consequences of that faith from heaven. If so, how can we deny Conservative and Reform rabbis and scholars the right to their interpretation? Of course, we Orthodox are the only jews faithful to the demands of the Torah. But no matter how much we insist on this, it will, nevertheless, remain our own subjective insistence. Could not, then, our non-Orthodox brothers and sisters turn to us and say with equal right, since our interpretation of Tora and Judaism is mistaken, that we do not represent "Tora-true" Judaism and that only theirs is the true way?"
Similarly, in his Not in Heaven: The Nature and Function of Halakha, on page 107, Rabbi Berkovits says:
"It is our conviction that Halacha has to be stretched to its limits in order to further Jewish unity and to better mutual understanding. In the Orthodox camp there are certain psychological impediments that have to be overcome. It is time that Orthodox rabbis face without dogmatism the issue of their relationship to rabbis of the non-Orthodox denominations. Judged in the light of the real situation, it is just not true that the latter, because of the Conservative or Reform interpretation of Judaism, are incapable of Yirat Shamayim. To insist that this is so is a prejudice; it is insisting on an untruth that, as such, is a violation of important biblical commandments. There are quite a few among Conservative and Reform rabbis who are sincere believers in Judaism. Nor should one take it for granted that belonging to the Orthodox group automatically bestows upon one the precious treasure of Yirat Shamayim. It is true that some of the practices and teachings of non-Orthodox rabbis represent a violation of the laws of the Torah as they are understood by the Orthodox interpretation. But it is not true that they interpret and practice as they do because the mean to perform an act of heresy or rebellion against Judaism. On the contrary, many among them work to preserve, to enrich, to serve Judaism and the Jewish people no less than the best among their Orthodox colleagues. From the point of view of their ideological position, their intention may be no less L’shem Shamayim, for the sake of heaven, than that of Orthodox Jews. What is their halachic status? Since they do not violate the law with the knowledge or the intention of violating, but on the contary with conviction – however mistaken from the Orthodox point of view – of practicing a valid form of Judaism, they are not to be considered Mumrim l’Hakhis, apostates out of spite, nor even Mumrim l’Teabon, apostates of convenience. From the halachic point of view they are To’im, mistaken. This reference to non-Orthodox rabbis as To’im as erring ones, should not be taken as a form of condescension. We are attempting to define their status from the point of view of Halakha. I fully realize that non-Orthodox interpreters of Judaism may similarly refer to the Orthodox interpretation as Ta’ut, a mistake…."
Having said this, Rabbi Berkovits enters the substance of the conversion issue, page 89 in Essential Essays:
"How to convert to Judaism is not a halachic problem. It is all stated clearly in the Shulhan Arukh. The problem is that in this case the prescribed laws on conversion are in conflict with another important principle of Judaism, that of preserving the unity of Israel, the idea of kneset yisrael, through the obligation of ahavat yisrael, the love for the people of Israel. Only when we understand this have we raised the halachic question. For, indeed, such is the classic halachic "problem": That the strict adherence to one law is in conflict with the strict adherence to another obligatory principle of Judaism."
Then, on page 98, he continues,
"We have our own views on what constitutes genuine conversion, and you have yours. We disagree on this point. We shall not force our view on you, as you will not force yours on us. But insofar as we are both part of the people of Israel and desire to have our place of responsibility in it, we do have in common our concern for the preservation of the unity of Israel, and are equally motivated by the love of Israel. … Now, I do not hesitate to say that the preservation of the unity of Israel and the practice of love of Israel are matters of utmost urgency. With this understanding of the problem, I might well think that a compromise with our non-Orthodox brethren was possible."
Rabbi Berkovits’s final solution is quite simple: according to the laws of conversion, as he explains them, a conversion requires, from the outset (l’hatkhila), that the convert be committed to Jewish law and its observance. However, after the fact (bedieved), any and all conversions are valid (assuming the technical requirements of kosher witnesses, circumcision, and mikvah were met), regardless of whether the convert intends to keep Jewish law. Additionally, says Rabbi Berkovits, there is a common principle in Jewish law that in cases of dire need (sha’at ha-dohek), what is permissible only after-the-fact (bedieved) can become permissible even from the outset (l’hatkhila). Therefore, he proposes: due the the dire and pressing need for Jewish unity, the Orthodox may waive the from-the-outset requirement for observance of Jewish law by the convert, and rely on the after-the-fact validity of conversions of even the non-observant.
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Lilit, you say that you take issue with the Orthodox halakhot being given the force of civil law. I might note, however, that the implications depend largely on which Orthodox halakhot are the ones being enforced. The Ashkenazi Orthodoxy we see today has almost nothing whatsoever to do with Sephardi Orthodoxy.
According to Daniel J. Elazar ("Can Sephardic Judaism be Reconstructed?", at http://www.jcpa.org/dje/articles3/sephardic.htm), "Classic Sephardic Judaism was designed by men who lived in the larger world and were active in its affairs, most of whom wanted a Judaism no less rigorous than their Ashkenazi brethren in its essentials, but flexible in its interpretations and applications. Their Judaism would play an isolating function only where critically necessary and not prevent Jews from playing their role in what had been in Spain prior to 1391 a multi-religious society."
Similarly, he says ("The Special Character of Sephardi Tolerance", http://www.jcpa.org/dje/articles2/sephtol.htm), "Sephardim are noted for and pride themselves on being less fanatic than Ashkenazim in virtually all matters, especially religion. They certainly are not among the militant, black garbed Jews who throw stones at vehicles on the Sabbath and refuse to serve in the army. Sephardim are often bewildered by the Ashkenazic pursuit of humrot (new and more difficult halakhic refinements), because they have traditionally sought to balance the requirements of observance with those of living in order to achieve a form of religious expression that takes into consideration the whole human being, to encourage and cultivate the range of human attributes. It is difficult for Sephardim to understand the isolationist trend that is dominant among so many Orthodox Ashkenazim, who see the salvation of Judaism only in separating it from those who do not meet current religious standards, which seem to be always moving to the right. Sephardim see no hope or virtue in isolation; to them, the result is a warping of Jews and a distortion of Judaism. Sephardim always have sought to balance their lives both as Jews and as a part of a larger human society. Isolation is not and was not a Sephardic goal — that would have been a violation of their sense of proportion and balance. Rather, they seek to accept involvement with the larger world and its challenges. Historically, in the world in which most Sephardim lived, there was little occupation and segregation between Jews and non-Jews and often little residential segregation. Living and working together prevented the development of an isolationist spirit."
Furthermore (Elazar, "Can Sephardic Judaism", op. cit.), "Sephardic Judaism as it developed in Spain was not like the "post-Reformation" Judaism of modern Europe and the United States divided into Reform, Conservative or Orthodox. First of all, it did not involve the kind of rupture with tradition that characterized Reform. Nor did it turn tradition into something frozen, or worse, reshaped by a deliberate ideology of rigidity, as did ultra-Orthodoxy. Nor did it allow the kind of institutional divisions that ultimately led to more deep-seated ruptures as with Conservatism. In part this was because medieval conditions were different from modern ones and in part because the culture of the Mediterranean world is different from that of northern Europe. … Even more than than, the fact of Sephardic Jewry being Mediterranean played a very important role. Thus we see today that in the Mediterranean countries the Protestant approach to religion with its search for consistency between belief and action continues to do poorly. As a rule, Mediterranean peoples believe that they must formally be faithful to the traditions of their fathers although reserving to themselves the right to determine how they individually will maintain those traditions. In contemporary times, this has become the way in which many Sephardim conduct their lives. Today there are more than a few Sephardim who eat every kind of halakhic abomination while providing support for the most ultra-Orthodox Sephardic yeshivot (rather than more "modern" institutions) and who regularly visit (with checkbook in hand) wonder-working rabbis of the old school to obtain their blessings."
In other words: for Sephardim, rather than forming separate denominations (Reform, Conservative, Orthodox), the Sephardim rather had traditional Judaism as the official standard, with individual Sephardi Jews, being Mediterranean, choosing how much or how little to adhere to that official standard. But everyone – observant or not – would be part of one community. In Elazar’s words (ibid.), "Contrast this [Ashkenazi schismatic denominationalism] with a typical Sephardic congregation. It will be composed of people of all levels of observance, from black-hatted yeshiva students to people who think of themselves as secular but enjoy attending services from time to time. In the congregation all are equal. No one is asked how much or how little he observes. Sephardim assume that all people want to be traditional, only some people need greater degrees of help. That Sephardic attitude, which is typically Mediterranean, runs against the grain of the Ashkenazi pattern where people have to declare their religious ideology and form of religious behavior to fit into one community or another within Orthodoxy as well as between Orthodox and non-Orthodox."
See also Daniel Elazar, "Religion in Israel: A Consensus for Jewish Tradition" (http://www.jcpa.org/jl/hit07.htm) and Rabbi Marc Angel, "Religious Zionism and the Non-Orthodox" (http://www.hagshama.org.il/en/resources/view.asp?id=1438) for a detailed analysis of why the Sephardi Mediterranean attitude ensures Reform and Conservative Judaism will not likely gain any significant foothold in Israel. Simply put: denominationalism means nothing to Israelis, and they see no need for anything other than plain Judaism.
Dear BrookeLynn:
I am glad that you have found Aish helpful!
I have not had "in-person" contact with them, but have corresponded with them, left posts on their website, read many of their articles, and have over 10 of their lectures stored on my computer.
They are definitely Charedi/Hasidic — but again, I have learned much from them.
Cordially,
Robin
http://www.half-jewish.net
http://www.inclusivistjudaism.wordpress.com
First Robin, thanks so much for your recommendations, & involvement here at Jewcy!
Regarding Aish, I truly believe that they have adopted the function of a Modern Orthodox outreach in several major U.S. & Canadian cities. For ~10 years I’ve been involved in their various Hebrew studies, parenting workshops, seminars (On how to be less judgmental!), Shabbat services, High Holidays, and Purim & Simchat Torah festivities. Robin, if you hadn’t mentioned it, I don’t think I could bring myself to believe that that Aish is Charedi/Hasidic. David Kelsey here at Jewcy has tried to impress this upon me too, but he strongly dislikes them.
The idea runs so contrary to my personal involvement with them. No one I’m interacting with looks like s/he stepped off the set of Fiddler. None of the guys are sporting black fedoras, or anything other than traditional sideburns. I assume all the devoutly religious women are wearing wigs, because none are in head scarves. And none are wearing very long skirts. Some women even show up in slacks. In addition, the folks at Aish have embraced religious observance along with the use of technology like no group I’ve ever seen. They’re among the most polite, open-minded, knowledgeable, spiritual, & humorous people I know.
Dear Jakes:
You are correct, this is a different topic, but a good one.
I suspect much of the halachah itself originated as chumrot and sect tradition. Whole sections of the Talmud are just an extended argument, along the lines of how strict shall we make this? is this oven tahor (pure)?
Very cordially,
Robin
Robin, clearly we’re moving onto a separate topic but I have a few problems with Aish and Chabad. I have read a few of R Angel’s articles and enjoyed them. But unfortunately, MO does not have a presence in campuses and cities around the world the way Aish and especially Chabad do. So secular, unaffiliated Jews get exposed to these groups claiming they are authentic Judaism when many of their practices stem from chumrot and sect traditions, not Halakha.
Dear Jakes:
You are absolutely correct that Aish is Charedi/Hasidic. And yet — and this is what I always caution people — we have to look at every Jewish organization and the individuals within it as we encounter them.
Aish ha-Torah used to attack intermarriage quite harshly, and I’m sure it is not their favorite thing even today. But at the same time — perhaps because they have gotten a lot of posts on their intermarriage articles, including mine — they have also begun posting articles about interfaith couples where the non-Jewish partner converted via Orthodoxy, and the couples now live as Jews. This includes interracial couples, where the Jewish partner had never been Orthodox in the past.
They have also, slowly, begun posting articles on their website from time to time about children of intermarriage converting to Judaism via Orthodoxy and living as Orthodox Jews.
In addition, I have never seen any articles on their website supporting the harsh treatment of children and grandchildren of intermarriage by the Israeli immigration ministry and the Charedi-dominated rabbinic courts.
Chabad is following much the same trajectory on their website. I think as outreach organizations, they are encountering people from interfaith families as human beings in search of Judaism — unlike the Israseli immigration ministry and the Haredi-dominated rabbinic courts of Israel, who see their role as keeping people of mixed ancestry out of the Jewish people — so Aish and Chabad are less inclined to simply cut members of interfaith families off than are some other Charedi and Hasidic groups.
It is a subtle trend within both groups, but it is visible to a close observer.
With regard to M.O. outreach, the closest thing is Rabbi Marc D. Angel’s Institute for Jewish Ideas and Ideals at:
http://www.jewishideas.org/min-hamuvhar/conversion-judaism-halakha-hashkafa-and-histori
Mike quoted from a number of essays on that website. Rabbi Angel refused to accept the RCA (Modern Orthodox rabbinical association of the U.S.) when it submitted to the Israeli rabbinate’s demand for much harsher conversion standards in the U.S. Orthodox beit dins.
Instead, he and Rabbi Avi Weiss started a new M.O. rabbinical school, Yeshivat Chovevei Torah, as a counter to Yeshiva University’s increasing drift to the right. YCT’s website, which advocates "open Orthodoxy," is:
http://www.yctorah.org/content/view/23/49/
They’ve also set up their own Orthodox rabbinical association.
I believe that the "fire" for outreach will not likely come from most of the M.O. movement, which is directed — at the present time — more towards preserving MO in the face of Orthodoxy’s growing drift to the right, as they are under savage attack from the rest of Orthodoxy.
"Fire" for outreach seems to me to come from groups at opposite ends of the spectrum — Chabad, Aish, and to some extent Breslov have an ideological imperative to reach out based on their understanding of Jewish mystical writings, their respective founders’ instructions to reach out, and a deep desire to pass on ancient Jewish traditions to the next generations of Jews —
and on the liberal-left, groups such as the Jewish Outreach Institute (http://www.joi.org), interfaithfamily.com (http://www.interfaithfamily.com), Be’chol Lashon (for multiracial Jewish families) (at http://www.bechollashon.org/), the Half-Jewish Network (http://www.half-jewish.net), Inclusivist Judaism (http://www.inclusivistjudaism.wordpress.com), Humanistic Judaism (http://www.shj.org/) many others — have a deep imperative from their vision of a future multicultural, multiracial Judaism that will arrive in this century, and must be prepared for.
I think the groups in the "middle" — M.O., Conservative, Reform, Recon, and Renewal – also share these "right" and "left" perspectives in varying combinations, but it is not the No. 1 priority on their "to do" list, the way it is for the groups at the opposite ends of the spectrum. And many of their leaders are ambivalent about outreach. Many of their leaders grew up in an era in which most Jews were married to other Jews, and even now, outreach feels uncomfortable to many of them.
This means that outreach is not their first priority, and causes problems for members of interfaith families who show up — one shul may welcome us, another will be quite unfriendly.
Cordially,
Robin
http://www.half-jewish.net
http://www.inclusivistjudaism.wordpress.com
I see that Aish has been mentioned here and I want to add my opinion: they certainly do not seem MO to me. Some even say they have a Charedi perspective. I wish there was an MO group that did outreach like Chabad and Aish do.
Dear BrookeLynn: Your buddy who just found out that her maternal grandmother was a German Jew is welcome to join the Half-Jewish Network.
About one-sixth of our members are grandchildren and great-grandchildren of intermarriage.
Cordially,
Robin
http://www.half-jewish.net
http://www.inclusivistjudaism.wordpress.com
Dear Mike, Jakes, and BrookeLynn:
Thank you for all of the intelligent and perceptive replies. They were a joy to read!
When Jewcy "works" as an opportunity for exchanging ideas, it really works. I’ll answer briefly, as I think several questions addressed to me have already been answered by exchanges among subsequent posters.
Mike — The young man in the story is fictional, but he has many, many real life counterparts in Israel. Here’s an example from the Israeli papers, which are filled with this stuff:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3801184,00.html and
http://religionandstateinisrael.blogspot.com/
The second website produces a free biweekly newsletter of English language articles from the Israeli press, which you could subscribe to, and serves as a "watchdog" for infringements on civil rights in Israel, which all too often means — infringements on other Jews by Jews.
I believe that you are quite correct that a Modern Orthodox group in the U.S. nowadays would act quickly to get the young man in the film out of his difficult situation.
However — Israel is another matter nowadays. Conversions there are not just a private affair between a convert and his/her beit din anymore. They can be an exceptionally unpleasant public encounter with the beit din, the immigration ministry bureaucracy (the young man seems to be an immigrant from the former Soviet Union), and possibly, if things go very badly, a rabbinic court, which is likely to be dominated by Haredi judges.
While the young man is fictional, there are thousands of Russian Jewish Israeli adult children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren of intermarriage, who, after years of residence in Israel as Jews, have a casual encounter with the immigration bureaucracy, or the rabbinic courts on routine matters, are suddenly told that their paperwork proving that they are partly-Jewish by descent is "fraudulent" or insufficient — and find themselves or their relatives facing loss of official Jewish identity, consignment to the limbo of "non-Jewish" Israeli citizenship, and in some instances, false accusations that they are "not Jewish at all," followed by deportation back to the country of origin.
If you are interested in awful stories about the plight of people like that young man, well, there is an entire Israeli Jewish organization in Israel devoted to fighting for them, the Association for the Rights of Mixed Families:
http://www.mixedfamilies.org.il/english/about.php
Also, I am saddened, by not surprised, by your story about the Chatam Sofer. His legacy has been very damaging to Judaism. Every time I see his name, I know that I am going to hear something I won’t like.
Jakes — I am glad that you found my comments of interest. I believe that change is slowly coming in the Diaspora, but it is being counter-acted by the Haredi and some Sephardic Orthodox (Shas party, anyone?) in Israel, and some of the Haredi and M.O. Jews in the U.S., who keep giving in to them.
I deal with people — Orthodox and non-Orthodox — who say, "Well, if Israel says X, then it must be true." I deal with Jews all the time who are being encouraged to be harsher to interfaith families by the example of the Haredim and their Sephardic Orthodox allies in the Shas party.
As I said, it is a reciprocal loop of bigotry between Israel and the Diaspora, and it spills over into non-Orthodox life in very surprising and disappointing ways — like BrookeLynn’s and her friend’s experiences with BrookeLynn’s Conservative acquaintances who want both of them to dump their non-Jewish husbands. I have never heard of that before outside of Orthodoxy.
For years I objected quietly to this nonsense, on the grounds you cite — thinking that members of interfaith families could join Reform, Reconstruction, Renewal and Humanistic Judaism and avoid dealing with it – but recent events have convinced me that I will have to be louder and more public about my objections. It’s also one reason why I’ve started Inclusivist Judaism.
BrookeLynn — I am hugely amused that you and your friend have not been urged to shed your non-Jewish husbands by Aish ha-Torah. I am a fan of Aish, and have at least 10 of their talks downloaded on my computer and enjoy listening to them. They have been writing more moderately about interfaith families in recent years and reaching out to them more, if the families want to convert to Orthodoxy.
I believe that Aish respects the marriage bond, and even if the partner is not Jewish, they would be loath to break up a home. They have always been polite to me, when I’ve written them to object to an anti-intermarriage article that I felt went too far. They engage with my objections, instead of brushing me off.
Very cordially,
Robin
http://www.half-jewish.net
http://www.inclusivistjudaism.wordpress.com
Neither Reform nor Reconstructionist feels like authenic Judaism to me. I’d be seriously compromising my values to join either of those two groups. I will finally get the Orthodox conversion I desire upon my husband’s death. (Chances are good I’ll outlive him.) It is a critical matter to me to be recognized by God & Israel as an authentic Jew by the time I die. If I am judged by God as a Christian (who has absolutely no faith in Jesus) I will surely spend eternity in Hell.
On a lighter note, regarding "A Green Chariot"–one of my friends is currently in the exact opposite situation. She’s married to a Christian (for 12 years now) & they have 2 little girls. She just found out that she’s Jewish. Her maternal Jewish-German grandmother just passed away, & upon her death it came to light that she had been keeping her Jewish heritage under wraps her entire married life. Now my friend is interested in switching to religious Judaism, though her husband has no interest in giving up his faith. Her involvement in our Conservative synagogue was welcomed with open arms, but not long afterwards, the "You’re going to divorce your husband, aren’t you?" started up. Neither of us, however, has received any flak from the Modern Orthodox over at Aish!
Furthermore, I think the movie sounds like it raises an important point.
If the guy in the movie were not observant but always thought of himself as a Jew, then finds out he really isn’t. It’s probably devastating. He doesn’t desire to live as an observant Jew (like most Jews) so conversion may not be an option for him. Yet he wants to be a member of the Jewish people and he always thought he was. So his feelings, regardless of whether the situation of being in a Yeshiva is realistic, are understandable.
Robin: Thank you for your response. It clarified a few things for me. However, I have to disagree with you on your assertion that Orthodoxy has seized control of "who is a Jew". Although Charedim have certainly done so in Israel, I do not believe this is necessarily representative of Orthodoxy. As well, denominations have their own standards for "who is a Jew" and it is not up to the Charedi Rabbinate to determine them. I am disappointed that the influence of Rabbinate has affected the standards for conversion in Orthodoxy in the US. There, you definitely have a point. But I don’t think R&R or Conservative is planning on aligning itself with the Rabbinate’s (ridiculous, un-Halakhic) standards.
In fact, I’d like to believe, there is a change slowly taking place in the Disapora. The RCA issued a strong statement against retroactive annulments of giyyur. Big names in the Jewish community, like Bronfman did on this website, have started saying they don’t think intermarriage is the enemy and that they have a more inclusive definition of who is a Jew. I think that’s pretty significant.
As for BrookeLynn’s example of Conservatives telling her to divorce her non-Jewish husband. I don’t agree with that at all. On the other hand, is that really surprising? I remember reading an article about a Jewish woman who was married to her non-Jewish husband by a Recon rabbi, ostensibly because he was one of the few who would agree to officiate at an intermarriage. Then this woman, her husband and their children join a Conservative synagogue and are horrified to learn that her husband cannot be called up during the son’s bar mitzvah. Well of course he can’t! I’m just saying, I don’t really understand why someone intermarried would want to join a denomination that is against intermarriage. Why not join R or R? Sure, denominations can adapt to time and circumstance, but when there are movements that already accept intermarriage (although don’t encourage it), why not let the members of Conservative maintain the standard of observance they desire? Here Robin, I really do need an explanation so I’d really appreciate one.
As for the movie, it sounds quite interesting.
Mike: I believe that regardless of whether or not it is fiction, the issue for the main character is that he has lived his whole life thinking of himself as a Jew and is shocked to discover he never really was (as per Orthodox standards). It’s as though he has lived his whole life as a lie. I think his point is understandable and I’m not so sure everyone would want to convert right away. Furthermore, he lives in Israel so he probably sees firsthand the treatment converts receive by the state and its Rabbinate.
Is the movie (whose trailer you linked) based on a true story? Because frankly, I find it hard to believe. All the Modern Orthodox I’ve ever met – and even some Haredim as well, but especially the Modern Orthodox – would easily and quickly agree to give an observant non-Jewish person a conversion when that non-Jewish person has been living as a Jew for years, and only just discovered his or her non-Jewishness. I spoke just now to my classmate next to me, and he agrees that this story sounds unbelievable; he agreed with me that within a few days, this guy’d have his conversion and continue learning at the yeshiva as if nothing happened. I attended Camp Sdei Chemed, an Orthodox boys’ summer camp, even though everyone knew I wasn’t halakhically Jewish. Because I was observant, no one cared that I lacked the conversion, because they knew I’d get an Orthodox one soon enough. Now, if I weren’t observant, then who knows how they’d have reacted, but since I was observant, they knew that I’d be halakhically Jewish soon enough, so they didn’t care that in the meantime I still wasn’t.
As for the Haredim: the Hatam Sofer (Rabbi Moses Sofer) in Hungary said that to fight Reform, one should "elevate" prohibitions, meaning that one should take a given halakhah and find a way to elevate its status, from custom to Rabbinic, or from Rabbinic to Torah. After the Holocaust, the size of kiddush cups doubled, even though the kiddush cup is the quintessential sign of tradition, being passed from father to eldest son as a sign of succession. The descendants of the Hafetz Haim won’t use his kiddush cup because they consider it unkosher in size! These are only two examples, but they illustrate how the Haredim deviate from tradition as much as they keep tradition.
Dear Mike:
I am very happy to hear that you will consider writing a letter to the editor the next time someone writes that people like ourselves are "the ruin of Judaism." It is a positive mitzvah.
I am also very happy that you are willing to talk to the brother of a Benei Beraq rosh yeshiva about conversion. It is really important that each one of use whatever Jewish niche we’ve got to help our half-Jewish sisters and brothers who want to live as Jews.
We can each provide a little help, each in our own way. That’s what I consider a mitzvah.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on the "citizenship model" of a Jew in Orthodox law.
It is easy for us to discuss in the abstract, but there is the human cost.
Here is an example — a trailer of a film about a young Russian Jewish man in Israel, studying in what appears to be a Modern Orthodox yeshiva, who believes that both of his parents are Jews.
He accidentally discovers that while his father is a Jew, his mother had a Jewish father and a Christian mother – his mother identified as a Jew – but because of his Christian grandmother, he is suddenly no longer Jewish, and loses his yeshiva and his Orthodox fiancee.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiSA20yFBMk
I can’t see the justice in this. The film is fiction, but I have seen this too many times in real life.
I hammered the Reform/Recon definition because I think it is just as erroneous as the traditional Orthodox definition.
With regard to the Haredim as not being really Orthodox, but something new — they seem to me authentic Orthodox Jews, theologically direct descendants of their Orthodox mitnagdim ancestors from their origins in the 18th century.
I don’t think they are scoundrels — but unreasonably harsh "reactionary innovators" — whose innovations — overturning conversions, making conversions more rigorous, covering up women far more than in past eras, demanding sex-segregated buses, etc. are signs of religious fanaticism and are not soundly based in past Jewish traditions.
I am personally a student of some Haredi and Hasidic writings — ironic, nu? — but I am opposed to the attempt of some of them to gain dominance over the other Orthodox and the non-Orthodox Jews —
and I do keep nagging the other non-Haredi Orthodox, because I believe some of them — Hasidic, Sephardic, Modern – haven’t been willing to stand up to the Haredim. I see many of them — not all – giving in to the Haredim all the time on conversion standards, "who is a Jew," etc.
So I hope that you will do whatever you can to help the rest of us. We are like that young guy in the film trailer.
Cordially,
Robin
Jakes,
Thanks for the support. However, I don’t mind Robin’s expectations of me. I disagree with them, but I’m not bothered by them, and I find them reasonable.
Thanks again for your support.
————————————————————————————————
Robin,
Regarding commiseration, I’m not trying to paint men and women in black and white, but let’s just drop that discussion, since I see we’ll get nowhere with it.
—–
Using slavery as an example, you say, "Just because something is lawful in one era or many eras does not mean that it is morally right, and eventually there is a communal consensus against certain evil behaviors." I completely agree with you.
However, you go on to say, "There is no moral justification for Orthodoxy considering me to be a Jew because of my mother, and judging you and Lilit as "not Jewish" because you have Jewish fathers, and insisting you convert."
I’m sorry, but that’s not the way Jewish law works. In particular, see Rabbi Norman Lamm’s response (http://www.forward.com/articles/11308/) to Noah Feldman:
"Surely you, as a distinguished academic lawyer, must have come across instances in which a precedent that was once valid has, in the course of time, proved morally objectionable, as a result of which it was amended, so that the law remains "on the books" as a juridical foundation, while it becomes effectively inoperative through legal analysis and moral argument. Why, then, can you not be as generous to Jewish law, and appreciate that certain biblical laws are unenforceable in practical terms, because all legal systems — including Jewish law — do not simply dump their axiomatic bases but develop them. Why not admire scholars of Jewish law who use various legal technicalities to preserve the text of the original law in its essence, and yet make sure that appropriate changes would be made in accordance with new moral sensitivities?"
Similarly, Professor Marc Shapiro, responding (http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=2595) to Noah Feldman, says:
"You have to violate the Sabbath to save everyone, but the reason given in the sources is utilitarian (non-Jews won’t save us if we don’t save them). Rabbi [Joseph] Soloveitchik [of Yeshiva University] said he was troubled by this. My point was that all legal systems have to operate in a legal fashion. That doesn’t mean there aren’t moral considerations pushing you, but those are not in themselves enough to get to the result you want. You have to go through the system, the halakhic rules. When you get to the utilitarian factor, that’s the rule. That’s the way to get to where you want to go. That no more means you are ignoring ethical factors than when a rabbi tries to free an agunah whose husband is missing. He’s certainly motivated by ethical factors, by great concern for the suffering of the woman, but that’s not enough. You need to work within the system."
According to Rav Kook (quoted at http://seforim.traditiononline.org/index.cfm/2009/1/28/Marc-B-Shapiro-Thoughts-on-Confrontation–Sundry-Matters-Part-), ??????? ????? ????? ?????, ????? ???? ?????, ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ???????, ?????? ???????? ?????, ??? ????? ???? ?? ?? ????? ?????. ?? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ??????.
My translation: "When natural morality strengthens in the world, in whatever form that it may, then every individual is obligated to incorporate this [new sense of natural morality] into his ethos from its source, i.e. from its manifestation in the world. And its details will be explicated via the Torah. Then pure morality will come into his hand, strong and purified."
Therefore: it is simply unreasonable to expect Judaism to simply jettison a(n ostensibly/supposedly) Biblical law because it is unethical. Rabbis Uziel and Berkovits preserved the technical law of matrilineality, but said that everyone without a Jewish mother should have a conversion. That is, Jewishly-speaking, a far more normative and traditional response.
—–
"But I have never been treated as a ‘real’ Jew by many Conservative and Orthodox Jews. I learned the hard way that many observant Jews disregard halacha when they want to."
So those people are a$$holes who wantonly violate halakhah. Next time they treat you like this, tell them that whereas eating pork is a simple negative prohibition (incurring lashes, if I’m not mistaken), the Talmud says (hyperbolically, but still) that one should prefer self-immolation to shaming another.
"…or I won’t get a shidduch…"
The Haredi community that utilizes the shiddukh system, they’re just so absolutely untraditional and flagrant in their violation of Judaism it isn’t funny. These people will also regard you as "damaged goods" for shiddukhim if one of your relatives is non-observant or has a mental illness. There is a wonderful article by Professor Michael Silber (an expert in Haredi sociology and history) entitled, "The Emergence of Ultra-Orthodoxy: The Invention of a Tradition", and there is an article by Professor Menachem Friedman (in the same field as Silber) in which he says, "To this day, the Ashkenazi Eastern-European character of Haredi Jewry is questionable."
Don’t judge Orthodoxy by the Haredim, because frankly, the Haredim violate halakhah as much as a pork-chop eating non-religious Jew. (Except that the Haredim claim to be keeping halakhah, whereas at least the pork-chop eater is honest and truthful about what he does, and thus, it is far harder to criticize non-religious Jews than it is to criticize Haredim. The Haredim commit a hilul hashem with their acts, because they are doing it all in the name of observant Judaism.)
I agree with you that these people are scoundrels; don’t get me wrong, for I detest them as much as you do. But they’re not observant Jews, and they’re not following the Talmud, however much they claim otherwise. A Catholic or Hindu could also put on a black hat and coat and eat kosher. Being Orthodox means keeping halakhah, not just outwardly wearing kashrut and shabbat observance while breaking everything else in Judaism. See what the Biblical Prophets say about those who offer sacrifices in the Temple while cheating the orphans and the widows. History does not include those hypocrites among those who kept Judaism properly, and the same will go for the Haredim, I think.
Believe you me, I write and speak about such people as much as I can. Don’t think I’m trying to condone them or cover for them in any way.
—–
"Starting with an end to the Orthodox hegemony over "who is a Jew" in Israel."
The Orthodox don’t have a hegemony. The Haredim do; there’s a huge difference.
"…but then [Reform] yanks the [patrilineal] acceptance away by saying you must be raised Jewish, and if you are not, you must convert, whether you have a Jewish mother or a Jewish father."
The Reformers are following the wholly un-Jewish concept of being "Germans of the Mosaic persuasion." For Reform Judaism, being Jewish is a creed, and so all you have to do is "say a word" (the Kuzari’s formulation of Christian conversions). The whole idea of having a firm and unequivocal legal norm is that Jewishness is an ontological fact, and not a matter of personal opinion.
If I suddenly wake up one day with newfound patriotism for Britain, am I British? No – I need to take an exam! So why should Jewishness – the Jews being a nation, not a religion – be a matter of confession? Conversion to Judaism is like naturalization in a new country.
Since conversion is like naturalization, it is unreasonable to expect anyone and everyone who claims Jewishness to be admitted as Jewish; Judaism is a peoplehood, not a confessional faith, and some sort of strict legal norm and naturalization is necessary.
Reform Judaism is operating with a definition of Jewishness as creed rather than ethnicity/nationality, and so of course they reject patrilineal Jews who weren’t raised Jewish!
—–
The letters to the editor idea is a good one; thank you.
"You can state that the next time this comes up in your Orthodox circles…"
The people in my Orthodox circles already agree with me on conversion, but believe you me, I already argue with Haredim when I get the chance. I was on the bus talking to the brother of a Benei Beraq (Haredi) rosh yeshivah, and he told me that he’d tell his brother about what I said.
Dear BrookeLynn and Jakes:
BrookeLynn: Thank you very much for sharing your experiences! I am very pleased that you found my comments of great interest.
I was absolutely horrified to read your account of Conservative Jews suggesting that you would be a better Jew if you ended your marriage to a non-Jewish man, and removed yourself and your three sons from a loving home.
I certainly have heard similar stories, but they invariably took place among a few people with relatives or friends who belonged to very hardline Orthodox groups. I had no clue that there are still some Conservative shul members who think this way. Let us hope that this pernicious attitude is disappearing, b’ezrat Hashem (by the help of G-d).
I greatly appreciate you sharing this information, as it will be valuable to my work on behalf of children of intermarriage.
Jakes, please excuse the length of my answers, but you have raised some complex issues, which cannot be answered in a short format. I’ll do my best to address them.
1. You may have misread some of what I said. If you glance again at Lilit’s article and then my exchange of comments with Mike, you’ll see that far from advocating the ‘superiority’ of children of intermarriage with Jewish mothers over those with Jewish fathers, I am strongly opposed to this — to me — unjust distinction and repeatedly said so.
2.I think it is absolutely fair of me to suggest ways in which Mike could welcome other children of intermarriage into Judaism. He is participating in the comments on Lilit’s article, and stated that he couldn’t think of any way to welcome her into Orthodox Judaism.
There are very simple ways that he can welcome her, and create a more welcoming environment for other children of intermarriage, both in Judaism as a whole and in Orthodoxy, and I’d be remiss in my advocacy if I didn’t suggest them.
3. I’m not "harping" on Mike’s mom. I asked if he was the child of an intermarriage, and he answered replied in the affirmative. That alters how I and other children of intermarriage conduct a dialogue with him.
My purpose is not just to reach out to born Jews with two Jewish parents, such as yourself, to ask that they work within Judaism for better treatment of us, and reach out to us more.
Other adult children of intermarriage — like born Jews – also have a moral responsibility to work within Judaism for better treatment of us and to reach out to us more.
It would hardly be "inclusive" if I spent all of my advocacy time badgering born Jews with two Jewish parents to treat us better and outreach us, and I did not also have the same outreach expectations for adult children and grandchildren of intermarriage who are already embedded in Judaism.
4. With regard to the idea you express, pervasive among born Jews, that the children of intermarriage could better their status and avoid discrimination by "just join a movement that already has a more equitable rule? Why try to enforce it on the Orthodox? Let them have their rules and let your movement have its own." – that strategy has been tried over the last fifty years, but it doesn’t work.
Because Orthodoxy has seized control of "who is a Jew?" issues in Israel, and uses the Israeli rabbinical courts and the government to enforce their ideas, its clout in the Diaspora on this subject has been magnified even among non-Orthodox movements in a manner that can be very tyrannical.
This has led to incidents like the encounters BrookeLynn has had with Conservative shulgoers who want her to divorce her non-Jewish husband. It has caused the Half-Jewish Network to receive endless complaints from adult children and grandchildren of intermarriage about poor treatment in nearly every branch of Judaism.
It is impossible for adult children of intermarriage and interfaith couples to ignore the harm that is being done to us by simply joining a non-Orthodox or Modern Orthodox group or shul. We’ve tried this for several decades, and it simply isn’t working.
The attitudes spread by this persecution of interfaith families have seeped into many Modern Orthodox and non-Orthodox Diaspora communities and then flowed back to Israeli channels, creating a self-reinforcing loop of bigoted and hateful attitudes and behaviors towards members of interfaith families in many sectors of both the Diaspora and Israel.
In my personal experience, any form of bigotry that is not vigorously and repeatedly challenged publicly rarely goes away on its own.
5. I believe that BrookeLynn and I are both challenging the assumption that Orthodoxy can’t change on this or other issues — that is implicit even in the relatively friendly Orthodox rabbinical materials cited by Mike — and that it is therefore rude or unkind or intrusive to ask the Orthodox to reconsider their "who is a Jew" standards and mostly negative treatment of interfaith families.
Far from being a historical monolith incapable of change and relying solely on previous halachic decisions – this is a modern myth about Orthodoxy — Orthodox Judaism, throughout history, has changed, and quite rapidly, whenever it deemed it necessary to do so.
As someone who is a respectful and passionate student of Orthodox theology, history, liturgy music, and halacha — pretty ironic, huh? but, like Mike, I have found welcoming corners of Orthodoxy — I am aware of Orthodox communities throughout the "matrilineal rule" era which accepted patrilineal Jews, and, in at least two communities, apparently switched over to a patrilineal rule, unbeknownst to other Jewish communities.
I am also aware of Orthodox communities that disregarded halacha to adopt much stricter rules of matrilineal Jewish descent, which are basically against halacha– I have seen numerous media reports that the Syrian Orthodox Jewish community of the U.S. treats even marriages between a Syrian Orthodox Jew and a Jew from a non-Syrian Orthodox Jewish background as ‘intermarriages’ and will not accept any conversions to Judaism. Hence my skepticism about the immutability of halacha on this or any other issue.
Finally, with regard to your complaint that I am covering "too many topics" — if you glance at Lilit’s original article again, you will see that it covers a wide range of complex topics within the issues of "who is a Jew" which is a topic that is difficult to discuss briefly. That resulted in a very complex dialogue with Mike.
Speaking of complex dialogues, I am now guilty of writing a reply to you that is clocking in at 3 pages! And I was gently chiding Mike for writing one that reached 6 pages! Oy gevalt!
Cordially,
Robin
http://www.half-jewish.net
http://www.inclusivistjudaism.wordpress.com
Patrilineals represent! Lilit, you express perfectly what so many of us feel. I just turned down an opportunity to go to Israel with my own Rabbi, my own Pastor, the most excellent Imam in DC, and a bunch of Jesuits. It could not have been more perfect. But I could not even get myself to go under those conditions.
And I don’t think I’m naive in feeling that I will always be safe as a Jew in New York.
Susan Katz Miller
http://onbeingboth.com/
I’m not sure I understand you correctly. What does this have to do with MO men vs. women? When did I suggest a man can make decisions but a woman cannot?
As for the Shabbos elevators, I know little about Halakha except, correct me if I’m wrong, that it can adapt to circumstances and the times. That’s what some movements like Recon try to do. From what I understand, MO also takes a modern approach to Halakha as well. If your goal is to overturn the matrilineal rule why not just join a movement that already has a more equitable rule? Why try to enforce it on the Orthodox? Let them have their rules and let your movement have its own.
Robin is committing no crime. Decisions can be re-assessed & overturned by Israeli Orthodox rabbis. Just this last month, for example, they chose to ban the use of Shabbat elevators, which had been considered acceptable for decades. (?!?!) While MO men might "wear the pants", we women can certainly assist you guys in your clothing selection.
I had no idea when I exchanged vows with a self-described agnostic guy at 24 years of age, that I was signing away my religious freedom. I happen to be a highly principled person who would never choose divorce unless substance abuse, violence, or adultery was an issue. But you would not believe how often I’ve been told by Conservative Jewish synagogue members, in an unsolicited & well-meaning way (of course) how I’d be such a great Jew if only I’d divorce the love of my life, & remove my 3 sons from their loving daddy. I take religion seriously & my home is not a mish-mash of confusion. My husband & I share the exact same values, although we have different theologies.
Outsiders might think, we just "celebrate everything", but reality is far from that. Every December, I give my husband & kids Xmas gifts, and they give me a Hanukkah gift during Hanukkah. Last year, on Xmas eve, we were all at my (Catholic, but very secular) folk’s house for dinner, when my middle-aged sister, currently a Buddhist, had an absolute crisis of conscience over sitting at my parents dinner table. (Let me add that my sister has also coverted to Islam in the past, just to make things a little easier between her & her then husband. Personally, I would choose death between Judaism & any other religion.) I had to calm her down by explaining that she does not have to be a worshipper of Jesus to enjoy a get together with the folks, & appreciate Christmas for the paid federal holiday that it is!
Long time reader, first time poster.
Robin: I don’t really know what you’re trying to establish here. I’ve read
your other Jewcy articles and enjoyed them. Really, I did. But I don’t like the
way you’re responding to Mike. You’re trying to cover way too many topics.
I’m not going to start arguing patrilineal vs. matrilineal descent
with you. I know patrilineal was the standard in Biblical times. But over the
last 2000 or so years, matrilineal has been the standard. I don’t think it’s
fair of you to ask of Mike, an observant Jew, in Orthodox circles, to welcome
"half"-Jews. If they follow matrilineal descent, that’s their
prerogative. For someone who is "half" there are other welcoming
communities. Let each denomination establish its own boundaries.
I’ve looked at Mike’s blog and read some of his comments. IMHO he’s
definitely MO and I don’t think you need to start questioning him on things
like slavery. IMHO he takes a progressive approach to Halakha.
You keep harping on the fact that Mike converted. What is your point!?
You’re under the impression that because your mother was born a Jew and Mike’s
wasn’t, that somehow makes you better than him in some circles. With the
exception of some Charedi and Chassidishe sects which aren’t very welcoming to
anyone except someone born into them, he’s a Jew no less and no more than you
or anyone else. I’ve read your comments to him and you’re holding him to too
high a standard. Because he’s not "biologically 100% Jewish"
(whatever that means), he somehow owes it to you and to anyone else identifying
as a Jew to advance your/their cause? What kind of "Inclusive"
Judaism is this you’re trying to run?
Robin, from what I’ve read, I believe you do good work. Unfortunately
your comments here leave something to be desired and IMHO do little to advance
your otherwise worthy cause.
(For the record, I have never met Mike and am not friends with him.
I’m just a Jewcy reader who has occasionally perused his blog).
Dear Mike:
I have known many women in my lifetime many who wanted practical solutions to problems and many men who wanted commiseration. We need to abandon the gender stereotypes.
You need only visit the message board of the Half-Jewish Network at http://www.half-jewish.net to see a lot of adult children of both genders who are seeking both commiseration and practical action on this matter.
You suggest that the poor treatment of the children of Jewish fathers can be defended as "a legal norm. Every system has legal norms, and Rambam says that the law has to draw a concrete line somewhere. Some people have to be Jewish, and other people have to be non-Jewish."
Slavery is also permitted under Orthodox halacha and in the Tanach – and Jews had slaves, including Jews in the U.S. prior to the Civil War. But we no longer see Jews owning slaves, despite the fact that the halacha permits it, nor would you see any Jews defending it today.
Why? Just because something is lawful in one era or many eras does not mean that it is morally right, and eventually there is a communal consensus against certain evil behaviors.
There is no moral justification for Orthodoxy considering me to be a Jew because of my mother, and judging you and Lilit as "not Jewish" because you have Jewish fathers, and insisting you convert.
Furthermore, how can any of us adult children of intermarriage respect a "legal norm" that is not obeyed or honored by the Orthodox and Conservatives themselves? I found out — after my mother’s death — that she had been an Orthodox Jew who’d run away from a very unhappy home to marry my WASP father. I immediately resolved to live as a Jew.
But I have never been treated as a ‘real’ Jew by many Conservative and Orthodox Jews. I learned the hard way that many observant Jews disregard halacha when they want to.
Or as one Orthodox son of a Jewish mother and a non-Jewish father told me, "I hope you tell every half-Jewish person who wants to become observant that I feel cheated, and they will be too. I was told that because I had a Jewish mother, I was a real Jew, but that is not how they treat me. They’ve told me I need to use my Jewish mother’s maiden name instead of my dad’s Italian last name, or I won’t get a shidduch."
So I can’t respect a "legal norm" that is routinely flouted by the observant. Not only that, the Orthodox in both the U.S. and Israel are increasingly questioning each other’s conversions. Thousands of Orthodox conversions have been overturned in Israel. What "norm" is there for us to respect?
Also, you ask for respect for the Orthodox rabbis you cited because they are nicer about interfaith couples than most Orthodox rabbis, calling patrilineal children of intermarriage "seed of Israel" and expressing kindness towards interfaith couples interested in conversion.
I appreciate that they are more outreach-oriented and kinder than many other Orthodox rabbis. That is of great value.
But the vast majority of adult children of intermarriage don’t just want rabbis to be nicer and more outreach-oriented, though that would gratefully appreciated. We want justice. We want equality. And we want fairness. Starting with an end to the Orthodox hegemony over "who is a Jew" in Israel.
Here’s what else we want. Many of us aren’t happy with the Reform/Reconstructionist standard either — which says you are a Jew if you have one Jewish parent — which on the surface looks like it is extending the Orthodox matrilineal standard to cover patrilineals — but then yanks the acceptance away by saying you must be raised Jewish, and if you are not, you must convert, whether you have a Jewish mother or a Jewish father.
But at least two-thirds of us weren’t raised Jewish, because the Jewish community still isn’t very welcoming. So I’m not Jewish by them. I was raised in my father’s faith.
But at the same time, I routinely see people with two Jewish parents, who were raised as Christians, or Hindus or Buddhists by Jewish parents who explicitly abandoned Judaism, walk back into the Jewish community as adults and be warmly embraced. There is no talk of conversions. They’re not reproached for their parents leaving Judaism.
The only difference between those people on the one hand — and me, you, and Lilit on the other — is that they have two biological Jewish parents, and we have just one. And that is held against us in a manner that is both irrational and immoral.
With regard to your statement that there is nothing you could do for Lilit — certainly there are things you can do for Lilit and the rest of us. You can say that you yourself are one of us — it’s often helpful to hear that someone else shares a similar niche. You can say that you’ll write a letter to the editor or a "talk back" to an Israeli paper the next time you see an article attacking "non-Jews" of "mixed parentage" or decrying intermarriage as the "ruin of Judaism."
You can state that the next time this comes up in your Orthodox circles — and it inevitably will — that you will tell the people putting down intermarriage that if your parents’ marriage hadn’t occurred, you wouldn’t be there having Shabbat dinner with them. Surveys show that 11% of the Orthodox think that patrilineal children of intermarriage ought to be accepted as Jews without conversions. You could work on increasing that percentage in a steady manner.
You could also befriend other adult children and grandchildren of intermarriage, and let them know the Half-Jewish Network exists. And you could tell them about my other group, Inclusivist Judaism, which automatically accepts anyone with one Jewish parent, grandparent or great-grandparent — of either gender — as a Jew — if that is their primary self-identity.
Sincerely,
Robin Margolis
http://www.half-jewish.net
http://www.inclusivistjudaism.wordpress.com
Robin, I’m sorry, I must have expressed unclearly; I did not refer to you and Lilit as "female significant others". Quite the contrary! My point was that while (as I have only very recently learned) women with whom one is romantically involved expect commiseration rather than practical solutions (unlike men, who want only practical solutions and nothing but), on the other hand, I do not know whether this is true of women qua women or if it is something exclusively between a woman and her partner.
And of course, as you say, "a desire for better treatment of children of intermarriage within Judaism is definitely not a female preoccupation". But this is a desire for a practical solution, and I’m quite sure that male children of intermarriage also want better treatment, since…they’re males!!!, and practical solutions are exactly what they want, as a rule!!! My question is limited to the issue of commeriseration as it regards women, period.
Now then, Rabbi Angel himself does not perform conversions – he doesn’t have any recognized authority or jurisdiction in the matter, and so no one would recognize his anyway, I suspect. (Rabbi Angel instead writes books (like his Choosing to Be Jewish: The Orthodox Road to Conversion, which is a beautiful book but totally theoretical and not very helpful practically) about how all the Orthodox need to get their heads out of their nether regions and deal with conversion responsibly as traditionally Orthodox rabbis used to.) So as I said, there is nothing I can do to offer a practical solution. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. Practically speaking, I’m as helpful as a turnip. A potato.
And my own experience as the ritually-observant son of a non-Orthodox convert is singularly unhelpful to anyone else, so I really didn’t see the relevance of mentioning it.
Believe you me, if I had any practical solutions to offer, I’d offer them!! But I don’t, so I won’t!
Dear Punktorah/Patrick Aleph, Monica, and Mike:
Punktorah/Patrick Aleph — a very interesting response. Much food for thought!
Monica — thank you for the referral to the book — very helpful — I will make a note of it for my own work.
Mike — I know you’re joking, but suggesting that Lilit and myself are "female significant others" "seeking commiseration" shows a fundamental misconception about the widespread pain and indignation among adult children of intermarriage about the "who is a Jew" issue.
At least fifty percent of the members of the Half-Jewish Network are men, so a desire for better treatment of children of intermarriage within Judaism is definitely not a female preoccupation among children of intermarriage.
No one was asking you to talk about the Haredim or any segment of Orthodoxy being evil. But you could have said that you yourself are the child of an intermarriage in your original post.
You could have said: "hey, Lilit, I’ve had really easy experiences with my Sephardic Modern Orthodox niche — haven’t struggled the way you’re doing — but I’d like to be of help — would you like to visit Rabbi Angel’s office with me? Come attend Shabbat at my shul sometime?" You can use your own embedded position to extend compassionate, direct, practical help to other children and grandchildren of intermarriage.
Those of us adult children of intermarriage embedded within any form of Judaism, including Orthodoxy, have a responsibility to work for change on this issue, and to identify ourselves to other children of intermarriage as belonging to their demographic, and to extend kindness to them in their struggles with Jewish and partly-Jewish identity.
I would also urge you to consider questioning a system that requires the children of Jewish fathers to convert and not the children of Jewish mothers.
Mike, how are the children of Jewish mothers different from the children of Jewish fathers? I had a Jewish mother and Christian father – am I genetically or spiritually or intellectually superior to you and Lilit?
Am I a better Jew than both of you by virtue of having a Jewish mother?
The only rational answer is: of course not!
With regard to your term paper, as I jokingly refer to your original post, I appreciated you posting it, though I am uncertain that this was the right context. But it did provide some valuable scholarly assistance to my own research, for which I heartily thank you.
Cordially,
Robin
http://www.half-jewish.net
http://www.inclusivistjudaism.wordpress.com
You might look at David Shneer’s New Jews: The End of the Jewish Diaspora. It substantiates much of what you’re suggesting about not finding concrete or even symbolic value in the idea of Israel as a homeland. Your situation is becoming increasingly common among Jews.
This article is the only reason I would ever move to New York.
Israel as a State is the Desert.
I’m more interested in Israel, the people. But that’s just me.
Robin,
I could have written an acerbic and vitriolic piece criticizing the Haredim in general for being the destroyers of the Jewish people, but David Kelsey and Shmarya Rosenberg seem to have that territory covered pretty well. (Plus, my rabbi, Rabbi Marc Angel, has publicly declared Edah Haredit to be destroyers of the Jewish people, and he advocates boycotting their Bedatz hekhsher. Awesome man that Rabbi Angel.)
I realize that my words offer no practical benefit to Lilit, but then again, my telling her how evil the Haredim are wouldn’t help her much practically either.
I figured that if I could do anything for her, it’d be to show that not all Orthodox are evil. Too many people conflate the Orthodox and the Haredim - who can blame them? – but I’d like to set the record straight. When we excoriate, let’s at least excoriate the right people.
Besides, citing scholarly sources is my way of showing sympathy. I don’t really express feelings so much as I cite books and articles which provide scholarly basis for my feelings. That is, I leave my feelings themselves to be inferred by others from what I imply via the sources I cite. Combine the emotions of a Yekke, the absent-minded intellectuality of an Einstein, and the hyperactivity and happy-go-luckiness of a five-year-old with a sugar high, and you’ve got my personality. I’m a piece of work I am.
(Wait a second. I once learned the hard way that when a female significant other tells you about her problems, she’s looking for commiseration, not practical advice. Does this apply to women in general, or only to women whom one is dating/married-to?)
Now then, for my own background: yes, my mother converted Conservative, and therefore, for the rabbinate in Israel, I was not Jewish. But because I am personally observant, an Orthodox conversion in Israel was a piece of cake. I really cannot offer anything to Lilit, because my experience is so diametrically different from hers. She cannot get an Orthodox conversion like I easily could, so what am I supposed to say?
Lilit,
I enjoyed reading your post, despite the fact that I may have differing opinions than you. I made aliyah from NY, so many of the points you raise certainly ‘strike home’ with me.
Your writing expresses issues of great concern, including how the State of Israel, how the Rabbinate (and how the people of Israel) would treat you if you were to make it your home.
To keep it short, one needs to distinguish between two separate issues: the Law of Return and the Rabbinate.
Based on your description, it appears that according to the Law of Return, you are eligible for automatic citizenship. On the other hand, the Rabbinate would not recognize you as a Jew for purposes of personal status, such as marriage, divorce and burial.
I hope you will return to Israel in the near future to further explore the many sides of this complex nation.
B’shalom,
Joel Katz
Religion and State in Israel
@religion_state on Twitter
Dear BrookeLynn, veganesther, Mike, and Lilit:
BrookeLynn: my sentiments exactly! (sound of hands clapping)
veganesther: Lilit — and people like her, such as myself, haven’t forgotten Jerusalem. Since the immigration ministry and the ultra-Orthodox Haredi rabbinic court judges have devoted themselves to persecuting members of interfaith families in Israel with a devotion and zeal worthy of a better cause, it’s impossible for people like us to forget Jerusalem.
We need people with two Jewish parents like yourself to start protesting the way Israel treats us. Please start telling your Israeli friends this isn’t OK. I would gratefully appreciate that. Israel will only improve on this issue if it starts getting a lot of negative blowback.
Mike — I have skimmed through your reply, but I had place it in a Word document for future re-reading. It is — 2,688 words long — and 24 paragraphs long — 6 pages single-spaced in Word. It’s extremely interesting and very erudite, and I plan to re-read it – but — yikes! you’ve thrown a term paper at Lilit!
I am famous for my — very long — replies on my own website at http://www.half-jewish.net — so this is the pot calling the kettle black – (internet smile)
Now your reply discusses – the views of a few very nice — mostly outnumbered Sephardic Orthodox scholars — who still want people like Lilit to convert — but in a much nicer manner.
But she’s talking about why she is ticked off at Israel’s "who is a Jew" system. Where the rabbinic courts are dominated by ultra-Orthodox Ashkenazi Haredim, who look down on Sephardic rabbis? And frankly, at least in Israel, the Sephardic Orthodox — the Shas party anyone? — are almost as strict as the Ashkenazi Haredim, and vie with them to make the lives of the Israeli seculars miserable. It’s kind of a "keeping up with the Schwartzes" thing.
It would be no solution for Lilit to convert via Sephardic Judaism — if her U.S. beit din was not on the "approved" Israeli list of U.S. beth dins, even a Sephardic Orthodox conversion would be invalidated.
Aren’t you the patrilineal child of an intermarriage? Didn’t you go through an Orthodox conversion? (please correct me if I am wrong.) Why not address people like Lilit and me from the heart — you stand in our shoes — speak to us Mike, from your personal experiences. I’m appreciative of your term paper, which provides some very helpful scholarly references I personally can use — but maybe Lilit was hoping for some empathy from her readers from mixed families?
Help us fight this iniquitous system. Start telling your Orthodox friends its not OK to treat people like us that way.
Cordially,
Robin Margolis
http://www.half-jewish.net
http://www.inclusivistjudaism.wordpress.com
If I forget thee oh jerusalem may my right hand wither and die
The U.S. is "my Israel" too! And give me Canada & Mexico over Israel’s neighbors any day of the week!
Also, with regard to Israel’s "Who’s a Jew?" issue– even with an Orthodox conversion, who’s to say that this ruling might not be declared insufficient & overturned at a later point?
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