Religion & Beliefs

Haredi’s Most Wanted: The 5 Worst Offenders

Israel has no civil marriage or divorce, which means that every Jewish Israeli is at the mercy of the state’s rabbinic courts. During the past decade, ultra-Orthodox rabbis have wrested control of those state rabbinic courts from their more moderate … Read More

By / June 19, 2008

Israel has no civil marriage or divorce, which means that every Jewish Israeli is at the mercy of the state’s rabbinic courts. During the past decade, ultra-Orthodox rabbis have wrested control of those state rabbinic courts from their more moderate Religious Zionist and Modern Orthodox peers. Now securely in control, they have begun to use this new power to de-legitimize those who came before them. What weapon are they using to do this? Conversion to Judaism. If a rabbi’s conversions are not recognized by the state, he is stripped of the authority needed to function and is essentially no longer a rabbi.

Last month, Israel’s ultra-Orthodox rabbinic judges voided hundreds, perhaps thousands of Religious Zionist conversions, creating a nightmare scenario where converts woke up one day—often years after their conversions—to find that they and their children had been ruled “goyyim.” The impact has not stopped at the Mediterranean. Converts in Europe, the Americas, and Australia now find their Jewishness under question. Even converts who have lived strictly Orthodox lives now must consider undergoing a second conversion procedure administered by ultra-Orthodox rabbis to clear up the “doubt”—“doubt” created by the ultra-Orthodox themselves. Many other converts, now less religious then at their conversion, or whose lives are not up to ultra-Orthodox standards, have nowhere to turn.

What follows is a brief list of the most involved ultra-Orthodox rabbis behind this mayhem—a rogues gallery, if you will, of ultra-Orthodox malfeasance.

Name: Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv
Age: 98
Last Seen: Attacking Religious Zionist and Modern Orthodox rabbis

The leader (“Gadol Hador”) of non-hasidic ultra-Orthodox Jews (haredim). A life-long Jerusalemite, Elyashiv has waged a long, personal, and bitter war against Religious Zionism and the Chief Rabbinate. In 2003, Elyashiv propelled Rabbi Yona Metzger to the position of Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi, in a backroom deal arguably worthy of the worst days of Chicago politics. Metzger’s ethical problems and his lack of advanced rabbinical training have considerably weakened the Chief Rabbinate, giving Elyashiv near-complete control of the state-funded Rabbinate’s infrastructure. Elyashiv uses that control to attack the Religious Zionist and Modern Orthodox rabbis while simultaneously filling state-funded rabbinic positions with his cronies. All the ultra-Orthodox rabbis behind the conversion crisis call Elyashiv their leader.

Name: Rabbi Yona Metzger
Age: 55
Last Seen: Dealing with allegations of sexual harassment and charges of graft and ethics violations.

As the Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi of Israel, it's not Metzger’s active presence in the conversion crisis that matters—it is his absence. A Religious Zionist who has moved to the right, Metzger—who was put in office by Rabbi Elyashiv—lacks the advanced rabbinic qualifications necessary to serve as Chief Rabbi. He is not trained as a dayan (religious judge), and therefore cannot hold the position of President of Israel’s rabbinic court system—a key part of the job description of chief rabbi—or sit as a judge on a religious court. While he was the sitting rabbi of North Tel Aviv in the 1990s, Metzger was credibly accused of extortion. In a judicial proceeding convened by the Chief Rabbinate to deal with those allegations, Metzger agreed not to run for Chief Rabbi of Tel Aviv as part of plea deal. At the time of his election as Chief Rabbi in 2003, Metzger was also under the cloud of several sexual harassment allegations made against him – allegations made by both by females and males. When Metzger took office, I asked Rabbi Jonathan Rosenblum, Jerusalem Post columnist and haredi spokesperson, if Elyashiv knew about Metzger’s legal and ethical problems before backing him for Chief Rabbi. If Elyashiv did know, I asked, why did Elyashiv back Metzger anyway? Rosenblum checked with Elyashiv’s right hand, Rabbi Yosef Efrati. The answer he came back with was strikingly unabashed: Elyashiv knew about the extortion and the alleged sexual harassment before the election, but he backed Metzger anyway. Why? “To restore the glory to the Chief Rabbinate,” Efrati told Rosenblum. Metzger spent much of his first years in office dealing with those sexual harassment allegations, and with new charges of graft and ethics violations raised after he took illegal gifts from at least one business. Metzger is now supposed to succeed Sefardic Chief Rabbi Shlomo Amar as President of the High Rabbinic Court. (Amar held the position for the first half of the duo’s ten year term of office.) But because Metzger lacks the necessary qualifications, Amar continues to serve as High Rabbinic Court president while Metzger presses his case in Israel’s civil courts. Metzger’s plight has weakened the Chief Rabbinate while at the same time increasing the influence of Rabbi Elyashiv, whose cronies now dominate state rabbinic courts.

Name: Rabbi Avraham Sherman
Age: ?
Last Seen: Voiding the conversions of thousands of converts to Judaism

A former Israeli Army rabbi who once spent a sabbatical at Yeshiva University in New York, Sherman moved to the religious right and is now a follower of Rabbi Elyashiv and a Judge on the High Rabbinic Court. Sherman wrote the High Rabbinic Court decision voiding the conversions of thousands of people who converted to Judaism by under Rabbi Haim Druckman, a leading Religious Zionist rabbi. One of the legal maneuvers used to void said conversions was based on a technicality—Druckman had signed state documents stating conversions were done in his presence, and that the three judges, including Druckman, “sat together as one.” That was true for almost every conversion he performed—except for a handful performed for converts in Europe. Along with his duties as head of Israel’s Conversion Courts, Druckman served as a Member of Knesset, Israel’s parliament. Due to unexpected Knesset business, occasionally Druckman was unable to leave the country to oversee a planned conversion. To deal with problem and avoid disappointing these converts, Druckman relied on three European rabbis to perform the actual conversions, then signed the state document to allow the convert to be registered as a Jew in Israel. But the document still contained the same wording, and Druckman was not actually physically present when the conversions were performed. Druckman relied on a halakhic (Jewish legal) principle with Biblical precedent allowing a person to appoint an agent or agents to function on his behalf. (Think of Abraham sending Eliezer to find a wife for Isaac.) The Chief Rabbis at the time, Mordechai Eliyahu and Avraham Kahana-Shapira, ruled those conversions valid, but asked Druckman to stop using proxies. Druckman agreed. Flash forward almost ten years: Rabbi Sherman reopened the these “forged” conversion documents and based some of his ruling voiding Druckman’s conversions on this issue. Yet Sherman himself apparently did what Druckman did—except when Sherman did it, the mandatory three judges did not “sit together as one.” They couldn’t, because there were only two of them. Sherman, the third judge on that panel, was not in the court at the time actual testimony was heard in a divorce case. And Sherman did not appoint a proxy. Yet Sherman ruled on that case anyway, and signed a state document regarding it, to boot. Sherman also ruled that people with serious hearing and/or speech impairments cannot convert to Judaism and that any conversion performed for these people in the past are invalid. In Sherman’s eyes, conversion depends on acceptance of all the commandments. Since the “deaf” and “dumb” are considered exempt from observing commandments, they have no way to convert. Sherman believes that no matter how much a “deaf” or “dumb” person loves God and the Jewish people, he must forever remain an outsider. Any conversion performed for him will not change his spiritual status as a “goy.” Reacting to Sherman’s treatment of Druckman and the belittling, obnoxious language Sherman used in his decision, Israel’s official ombudsman for judges and court procedures recently recommended Sherman’s dismissal.

Name: Rabbi Nochum Eisenstein
Age: ?
Last Seen: Pushing for a ban on Modern Orthodox and Religious Zionist conversions

Eisenstein is a close follower of Rabbi Elyashiv and a leading figure in the push to ban Modern Orthodox and Religious Zionist conversions. The rabbi of the Ma’alot Dafna neighborhood of Jerusalem, he also heads the Vaad HaRabbonim Haolami LeInyonei Giyur, an international haredi organization whose goal is to make stricter conversion standards worldwide. Eisenstein is a long-time enemy of Modern Orthodoxy and Religious Zionism, and is also an early backer of the Monsey, New York-based Eternal Jewish Family (EJF) and its founder, Rabbi Leib Tropper. Speaking at an EJF convention late last year, Rabbi Eisenstein said anyone believing the universe to be older than 5768 years is a heretic who is unfit to serve on a beit din (religious court). This would make any conversions done by that rabbi or beit din invalid. Eisenstein’s source for this ruling? Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv.

Name: Rabbi Leib Tropper
Age: 57 or 58
Last Seen: Revoking his own conversions.

A follower of Elyashiv, Tropper heads EJF, which seeks to convert non-Jewish spouses of mixed marriages to ultra-Orthodox Judaism—while at the same time marginalizing Orthodox rabbis who don’t march to Rabbi Elyashiv’s tune. Originally a North American organization, EJF is slated to have a couples seminar this November in Israel. Tropper told potential converts already in the conversion process with Modern Orthodox rabbis that they should move their conversions to EJF to “ensure” acceptance by Israel’s state rabbinate.

Like Elyashiv’s Israeli acolytes, Tropper has also revoked at least one conversion. Tropper (together with another haredi rabbi, Leib Pinter, who is now on trial for his alleged role in a $44 million mortgage fraud) is said to have spearheaded the 2004 ban against the Zoo Rabbi, Natan Slifkin, and his books. Slifkin’s “crimes”? Following the lead of medieval rabbis and modern savants like Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan, Slifkin wrote that the scientific and medical opinions of ancient Jewish sages may have been in error. He also attempted to show that the opening chapters of Genesis can jibe with a universe far older than the 5768 years Orthodoxy commonly holds. Both positions are frequently held by Modern Orthodox rabbis, and were—before the ban—a mainstay of the ultra-Orthodox kiruv movement. (The kiruv movement is, in effect, made up of ultra-Orthodox missionaries out to “convert” Jews to ultra-Orthodoxy. Its main players internationally are Aish HaTorah and Ohr Somayach. Chabad functions in a similar fashion, but has been opposed to anything but a literal understanding of Genesis from the get go.) The ban against Slifkin was signed by dozens of ultra-Orthodox rabbis. Who was the lead signatory? The Gadol Hador, Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv.

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  • ohreally

    Will Jewcy do an article about this? 3rd indictment filed in Jerusalem pedophile case http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?id=240304
    This man is the life coach Ohel Sarah Imenu worked very closely with, even let their girls take private sessions with that man.

  • ohreally

    Sarah Vorst might as well be the moderator of orthodoxconversiontojudaism, Malka Esther will delete anything that is even a little critical to Sarah, or Charedim. That group is not fair and gives false information to those who wish to do a kosher orthodox conversion.

  • ohreally

    What happened to all the comments, especially the ones about Sarah Vorst (if that’s her real name) and her unkosher shenanigans? Don’t tell her arms reach all the way to Jewcy too? She already has a strangle hold on the Jerusalem conversions.

  • Oreally

    Sarah Vorst may not be the moderator, but she DOES have influence, AND the moderators throw out anything they think is too modern orthodox. ONLY Charedi can post there, as soon as you post something too liberal, you are blacklisted.

  • malkaesther

    <i>Sarah Vorst is the moderator of the Yahoo group "Orthodox Conversion" </i>

    Someone linked me to this post today.  I’m commenting so that readers of the blog can get correct information on the above comment.

    If you mean orthodoxconversiontojudaism (OCJ) then you are wrong she is NOT a moderator nor has she ever been one. Yes she is a member of the group. But she has never had any say in the running of the group. I have been a moderator of the group for over 5 years and a member for 8 years.

  • Shifrah

    not everybody do this kind of things and it seems that nobody really cares for each other; there are so many stories, and so similar it is really not a nice kind world this one.

  • Shifrah

    Nancy it can be a  help to take a DNA Test to clarifade your ancestral background,   if you need it.

  • Shifrah

    Nancy,  I was told at first that my jewish status and clarification would take a short time. And by a chief rabbi in ranana i was told it would take no more than tree weeks to have everything in order. And so I was also adviced to meet this woman, and  my experience with this people and the big rabbis involve in this conversions business, was one of the most sadistic and squizofrenic experience that any person can go trhough. And the most absurd of it all is that this people knows and have the power to let you be a jew or not, because in the end the rabbinate, posek eissentain, the missionary sarah vorst the molestor zalman cohen and all the other people around them believe that everything is done by halachah while they do what ever they feel like doing there is nobody to check upon them ,

    jews but in any society including in israel if this had a real chance to come out to the public, they would have been in jael  they do not fallow anything else but their own rules and they experiment with peoples lifes 

     I know some girls that came from Canada to her program, they all had  jewish backgrounds and two had a jewish father, but they needed to complete their status by rabbinate standarts, they were long time observant jewish girls and their families, they all left and some even stop their orthodox observancy, unfortunatelly I don’t know how to reach them today but, there is much more to tell about this issues, many people have lost enough.

     

  • Shifrah

    Mishpatim, More Jewish Laws,

    Where do the haridim anarquism come from/lack of bonderies???

     

  • hannahre

    Certain groups suffer more than others in this heartless legal battle of the Ultra-Orthodox rabbis.  Take the Sabbotniks http://www.jrtelegraph.com/2008/11/the-plight-of-subbotniks.html , groups of Russian Jewish converts who have for sometimes centuries been practicing Jews.  From an article of 25 November 2008:

    BUT IN recent years, Israel’s Interior Ministry and the Liaison Bureau, an arm of the Prime Minister’s Office which oversees immigration from the former Soviet Union, have inexplicably all but halted the Subbotnik aliya.The result is that hundreds of Subbotnik Jews in Vysoky, and thousands more in other communities throughout Russia, now find themselves left behind.They include Lubov Gonchareva, a 48-year old resident of Vysoky and the mother of three children. Lubov’s parents made aliya several years ago, were recognized as Jews by the Interior Ministry, and her mother even obtained a ruling from the Jerusalem Rabbinical Court attesting to her Jewishness. – The Jerusalem Post 

    And yes, it is dreadful that in our time there are still laws in use stating that the deaf are lesser beings because they ‘cannot’ be fully active members of the congregation.  They cannot even marry a Jew.  From the Jewish Law Manual  - Bernard S Jackson   pg 187  (paraphrased):

    Deaf-mutes are not considered mentally competent.  The deaf-mute, the mentally handicapped and the minor cannot be held responsible for their actions.  They cannot perform rituals, cannot be slaughterers or serve as witnesses before the Bet Din.  They cannot be counted as part of a minyan, cannot dispose of property, cannot enter into contracts of self will.  He/she is considered intellectually undeveloped

     

    Who wants Moshiach NOW!

     

     

  • Nancy Cuevas Guzman

    I appreicate the above comments from both ladies, both informative.  Now I have a document which is very, very interesting and will explain soooooo much about why these terrible people are in the midst of Israel:  Here is the link and I think is is worth studying:  http://www.mishpattsedek.com/Docs/MODERN_EREV_RAV.pdf

    I used to tell my friends in Jerusalem that I couldn’t understand why this rabbi was judging me because I didn’t believe he was Jewish!!!  Which would make them all laugh…what I would say was, but he was "pink-skinned" with pale blue eyes….how could he be descended from the 12 Tribes?   OK…I am "fair", too….but I am a very light "OLIVE-skinned" person, not "pink"!  I used to say that Rabbi Eisenstein was ESAV.  Now, with this Parshah we’re on and Purim here I have a new theory: 

    Rabbi Eisenstein is AMALEK !!!!!

    Go ahead and laugh….me, too!!!  but read this:

    Here is are excerpts from the above document: "Rabbi
    Yehonathan Eyebeshutz (he lived from 1690-1764): “Due to our many sins,
    the jealousy and zealousness due to G-d have disappeared, they are
    turned upside down and in their place the honor and profit of the
    people dominate. G-d forbid if someone comes and argues or diminishes a r
    abbi or a leader of a congregation…they will run after him and persecute him until the end."

    Rabbi Eliyahu, the genius of Vilna:

    "And they are called Erev Rav, because they are the heads (leaders) of the
    Jews in the exile and therefore they are called RAV.”

    In the book Divrei Chaim (written by Rebbe Chaim Halberstam, the Rebbe of the Sanzer Hassidim who lived from 1793–1876):

    “Before the coming of the Mashiach most of the Rabbanim will be from the Erev Rav etc. Because Israel in themselves are holy, but the Erev Rav work only for their own benefit as we can clearly see that the Rabbanim and the Chassidim and many regular Jews of the generation are, due to our many sins, mostly from the Erev Rav and want to rule over the public, and all their actions are only for their own sake, to acquire honor and money, and one should therefore only join with those who truly serve, who sacrifice themselves to Hashem not in order to receive any benefit”.

    Sages wrote that the Erev Rav would become especially powerful right before Mashiach comes. We’re seeing this now. 

    Here are the 5 types of Erev Rav:


    "In his book EVEN SHELOMO, the Vilna Gaon, wrote that the selection and purification of Israel will not be complete until the Erev Rav separates from Israel completely, because they (Erev Rav) are very attached to the Jews and the Jews learn from their actions.

    And the five types of Erev Rav are:  1- Those that create strife and talk Lashon ha Ra  2- Those who pursue their desires like Prostitution, etc.  3- The swindlers who pretend to be Tzaddikim but their hearts are not straight. (This was my experience!)  4- Those who pursue honor and build great synagogues to make a name for themselves  5- Those who pursue money and strife  (Aderet Eliyahu)"

    We need to stick with the old sources, like "The Way of G-d", Moshe Chaim Luzatto, (Ramchal), and with Jews who you see are good and sincere, just as NVST18 says above.  It’s all very interesting and also so sinister.  What a read, full of statements from the Zohar.  Check it out, you guys.  I got from a good Sephardi Rabbi’s wife.

     P.S. "mishpat tsedek" means "a just judgement".

     

     

     

  • nvst18

    That conversion black mailers don’t want you to know..

    The same rabbis on the Jerusalem Badatz are the same rabbis on the Jerusalem Rabbinical Court. The same men, the same black kippas,  the same hats. 

    Just like the kosher supervisors for restaurants, etc.

    rabbis tend to become experts in a field and then they work for several organizations in that same field.Chances are if a restaurant is rabbinute Mehadrin and Badatz Mehadrin, the same kosher supervisor is signing that paper for both organizations.  So, too with conversions.

    So don’t buy the big lie about conversions or anything else…being more kosher because it’s Badatz vs Rabbinute…UNLESS YOUR OWN GENUINE RABBI WHO NEVER HARMED YOU SPECIFICALLY TELLS YOU SO.

  • Shifrah

    The din Moser Law… An informer, A Jew that gave information to the Inquisitors about (secrets) Jews that were keeping shabbat… the moser did this in order to escape from torture and persecution…and or being boild alive in hot oil. Most of Jews were fried of course and others escaped, others becomes masters of hidding their Jewish Heritage. In the South Americas the Inquisitions Laws were taken away less than hundred years a go accept for Brazil. Judaism was the most forbidden religion and jews had tales…

      Then German Jews started to arrive to South america from Europe and bouild their own hebrew-schools around the end of the 1920s, and later they manage to get a visit from an  originally american rabbi for exemple, ones a years maybe less….. German Jews could start to bouild shuls again for he first time in south America….Din Mosers change to Kvetcherims, usual shul-talking or other Whats new? This is the news

  • Nancy Cuevas Guzman

    That was amazing for me to read your testimony, Shifrah, especially the first one.  In fact, I am outraged that this rabbi sent me clear across the world at an enormous expense to me and my family to obtain my documents and then he steals them!  I went to the mountains of Puerto Rico and tracked all this information down, even to the handwritten records which only the Bishop of that region can access from the days when the government was the Church of Spain.   What right does Rabbi Eisenstein have to my and my entire family’s documents and birth certificates? 

    When I asked for them back, he said NO!  He had them in his hand and had just closed my case…..Why "NO"?   He said he needed to copy them.  For what?  If my case is closed, he has no right to them!  I even tried to take them out of his hand but he yanked them away from my reach!  He was just being mean!  But, that was the second time! 

    The first copies were given to his secretary Rabbi Adelman who told me to FAX them to a number which did not exist.  He claimed I had the right number and that it all depends on how many pages I FAX, as to whether or not it works…..you figure!    I pushed for an address to deliver and he gave me an address without the apartment number and told me to just leave my documents downstairs by the mail boxes in the lobby….I am serious!  It was his way of resisting helping me.  Of course, I took them straight to his apartment. Later he pretended that someone stole the contents of the envelop, only…..and left the empty envelop at his door as evidence of the crime!  Yeah…..he insisted that only an empty envelop was there.  One of his neighbors came to his door and opened a thoughally and heavily sealed envelop at his door, risking getting caught and took only the contents, instead of taking the whole thing.  You see what an idiot he is!  He has no respect for people and I listened as he obviously lied and defended his lies and backed himself into a corner.

    The next batch Rabbi Eisenstein stole to my face, only to be mean.  I suppose it is useful information for anything from blacklisting you and following you and your family through life, passing that information to others, reporting you and your family to agencies and even stealing your identity.  It is criminal. 

    Rabbi Eisenstein is a power monger…..a disgusting creature.  So long as people accept it….they are his collaborators!

    I have been recently contacted by a woman who was "put up to it"…..that is, she was asked to contact me and not admit that she was instructed to do so and never say who put her up to it!  The message she delivered was that no one has ever before gone after a rabbi like Rabbi Eisenstein the way I did…..(I doubt that)….and that Rabbi Eisenstein’s followers are not going to put up with it.  Further, that I am in danger of more violence against me. 

    I instantly knew who instructed her to deliever the message.  I had just engaged in a conversation with that person who is trying to manipulate women who have been reporting on her friend, Rabbi Zalman Cohen and pretending to be the coordinator of 6 witnesses who are going to some sham Beit Din in Har Nof to press charges……and it is all a very childish lie.  Furthermore, this is a woman who is involved with a rabbi who tried to extort $1000. US dollars from my mother without my knowing, speaking to my mother in Spanish, making her think that I needed him….for what?  The woman has her own organization for Marranos and claims she is one…..yet I only recognize an anglo way of speech and thinking and much discomfort in trying to communicate as a Latina.   She is sending me messages through a woman whom she seeks to silence (her testimony against Zalman), and to silence me, also by scaring me into submission.  This same woman once told me that Rabbi Eisenstein was a righteous man and that I dare not speak out.  Try telling my mother that I must endure abuse and even beatings so as not to embarass my tormentors! 

    So, this manipulator wants to scare me?  As you may already know…..I was attacked in Jerusalem 10 times and there is no protection, not even police can help when called.  I have the reports, so what?  I never even got my day in court.  There is no Justice in Israel and victims are always blamed.  When I am threatened, there is no one to report it to.  But, I have a big mouth and I could care less about Lashon Hara which does nothing but protect the crooks.

    To hell with you, Rabbi Eisenstein!

    The only defense against you and your henchmen is to speak out!  Rabbi Eisenstein is a disgrace in Israel.  Four Orthodox women walked out of your pendejo Beit Din calling you a disgrace and that is the truth!   

  • nvst18

    Oh, and thank you for informing us that Ruth is a missionary, I didn’t know until I read it here, and Nancy Cuevas Guzman confirmed her and others in their circle.

  • nvst18

     This article was about abuse of converts and I wish it would stay that way.

     The fact that Ruth Cohen Harif chooses to use Nancy and exploit her instead of focusing on the article is a pity. 

     Rav Shimon, a student of Rav Kook, has offered  to cover the cost of ads in hamodia and yated ne’eman to expose Sarah Vorst and anyone else who exploits converts, but you must actually go to him to get the help.

    Stop piggybackingon others to air your evil.

  • Oreally

    Ha ha, IcareJlm, you’re so funny. We’ve got a real live Nancy Drew
    here. Really, a quiet research? Really! How tznius of you, or was it
    because ‘neighbors’ did not really want to be associated with Sara
    Vorst?
    Maybe they are those type of neighbors who live next to serial killers;
    ‘but he was such a nice quiet guy, he helped me trim my hedges.’
    Or is it, really, because there really are no neighbors? And aren’t
    you, really, associated with her, dare I say, aren’t you, really, her.
    How else would you know the triumphs and easiness of that so called
    high conversion ‘success’ rate. Ah, yes, the ‘neighbors’, yes that’s
    right, they are so closely involved with the school, they surely would
    know. Even-though this information would and should be private. But
    then again, why am I not suprised that a school that leaks so much
    false negative information about their former students, wouldn’t find
    it a problem to misinform people of their ‘success’ rate.
    Nobody lives near her, the very few that do, barely have contact with
    her, except maybe some friendly small talk, now of course, why wouldn’t
    they have anything but nice things to say?
    And those ‘failures’ you speak about, sounds to me, from reading their
    stories, they are already Jewish. Or do you mean failures as in
    character trait, yes let’s say nasty things about those ‘failures’,
    because it’s not really Loshon Hara when YOU do it.
    Oh and how impressed we all are with how those wonderful converts from
    Vorst’s school who grow, née blossom, into mature human beings. Good
    thing you didn’t say mature orthodox Jews, because who doesn’t remember
    the girl who converted through that school and within a week was seen
    on Jaffa road wearing a tight skin leather jump suit? Hah! Or the one
    who after converting, went back home, and married a goy!? A goy!! Well,
    at least it’s not one of them modern orthodox ones, or, GASP, a
    chabadnik.
    Puhlease, get your head out of your butt, and start doing some ‘quiet
    research’ among people who really know her, and speak schande of her
    behavior. The way she terrorizes her students. The witch hunts on
    discrediting people, and other schools.
    Really, if only you could hear what they say about you, uhm sorry her,
    and start doing some soul searching, work on changing your ways, and
    beg all the people you, sorry she, wronged for forgiveness.
    But I guess it’s easier to live in denial and convince yourself that
    what you are doing is for the greater good, I feel sorry for you.

  • Dont worry

    Rabbis are only human, not holy.

    If you are being abused, mentally,
    physically, by a school, a teacher, a rabbi, or any person, please
    report this to the police. Please go to the authorities, don’t be
    afraid.

    Don’t listen to those who protect those who harm the inocent.
    Don’t allow anyone to tell you that what you are doing is wrong, these
    apikoros, who pretend to be torah observant, have been able to do severe harm,
    thanks to the protection of their community.

  • eliezer K

    The issue with the Haredi and Ultra Orthodox community is the following:

    The indoctrination of our children taught by parents, teachers, and other educators throughout the life of a child and then into their teens and adulthood  of Torah and Mitzvot is the most important gift or tool we can give our children. We all want to raise our families to be worthy humans and to interact properly with others, the issue is not how religious or "frum" we are the issue is to have BALANCE in our lives to be able to interact with ALL Humans and not just those in our selective communities. 

    Haredi Jews, from the Haredi perspective, is the way to live a balanced life, and most Haredi do live a wonderful balanced life withing the Haredi community, the issue is when taken out of this community most CAN NOT function with balance, this is against all teachings of the TORAH because as such this person will not be able to GIVE his knowledge of many years of study outside His or Her community, How can an individual with a vast knowledge of Torah speak with a Conservative Jew or a Modern Orthodox or NON Jews?

    It is important for Rabbis of all sects to come together and not preach Holier than THOU mentality. Many Lost Jews who can not conform to Modern lifestyle are stuck within their community life, which may or may not work for them until the Almighty decides to return their soul where it ultimately belongs.

    We are here on this Planet to test our kindness to others Jews, Arabs, Blacks, Hispanic, Chinese, Russians, Eskimo, and all cultures.

    Somewhere throughout our teachings, the Human factor took hold and we became partial to our own and do not care as much for the others. It only takes ONE to change our perception. Its time Rabbis who are revered as Gdolim search deep inside their SOUL and connect with the TRUE teachings of the TORAH not just for their community but to reach beyond and connect with all Humanity and the TRUE light of the world.

    May Hashem keep shining and smiling on all of us and may we be ZOHER to receive his light.

    When the time comes the Truth shall be revealed and we will all rejoice. Do not argue with another human, try and learn and understand his unbalance and help eachother.

    all the best

    Eliezer 

  • antiShmarya

    I need classes in everything to do with writing blogs, and the english language, Fine. 
    You say it only started after WWII. You know many people and many stoires. Fine.
    But the moment we enter the real world, and talk about the Torah, you need sources.
    What is a source? Good question Johnny, to keep it simple, a source is somthing which the Jews received from Moses at Mount Sinai, what's my source for that? Well Johhny, how funny you should ask, becuase the answer is the Torah, which tells us Moses received and knew, all of it.
    Width and Bredth.
    Why do I say this? Becuase I would like to remind the author of information he already knows, but seems to have forgotten when he wrote his previous post. All the decress, and "fences" the Rabbi's insituted, are based, related, in some way to Torah and it's laws. Even "minhagim" which no Jew should take lightly, considering there is a teaching saying once an individual accepts a certain minhag, to go against it is no different then going againt a rabbanon, or d'orayosia(torah prohibition)
    (this needs to be understood of coarse) are somehow related or connected to Torah laws.
    (keepign in mind there are exceptions to every rule)
    Now, i've never read, or inquired about the divider at the cemetarys, but I will try to answer "why" from my own limited understandings. Jews know the sensitivity the Torah puts in relation to the "mixing of genders". It would seem pretty clear, that the more we keep seperate, in any environment the better, especially in todays world, of openness, and flaunting, and immodest behavior and dress, that even at a cemetary, the evil inclination in man, can be drawn after his "sexual" desires, yes even at a cemetary. Why? Becuase thats how every man was created (exception to every rule) That is ingrained in our nature. So for the rabbi's to call for seperation, and me not knowing enough Torah to disagree with it, with sources and proofs, I would except it, and on some superfical level, hope I understood why they decided to implement it, or atelast call for that seperation.
    As for your claim "People had been visiting those kevers for centuries, without any problems, before the erection of a mechitzah" you have to back that up you see, to throw out words from your mouth or bottom end, is nice but it has to be grounded in somthing. Can you show me in the Talmud that women visited these sites, and prayed there, while men did at the same time and that there was no divider? And when your shown that women didn't visit these places with men there, or they did and there was a divider would that pacify you? Would you really accept it, or would you bring more so called "difficulties".  (I would love to know….for turth's sake)
    I would like to ask, where you felt I was "continue to pass judgement"
    but I assume I won't get an answer, becuase your correct, your anger and passion have blinded you from potentially seeing a spectacle of truth, even with  your bad expereinces,
    (which ultimatly the creator of the world controlled also…..)
    (p.s. before you rip people for bad editing skills, atleast make an effort to spell things properly, you have mistakes in both of your posts….funny how that works eh?)

  • antiShmarya

    the truth is your right, I am sheletered…unfortunatly, i'm sheltered from the real world,
    which, if your "blogging" you just aint in.
    Anyhow, your right, I don't have enough expereince in the process of geruitys.
    But, what bothers me is statements like this
    "Perhaps this is just a good chance to relook at the system in place and try to improve it. "
    first off, it's a Torah concenpt, meaning it was handed down from Moshe at mount Sinai. There is no relooking the system, and starting from scratch, we may have power to ammend, and alter, but relook at the system? This is what we've been doing since we got the Torah, this is how it shall continue to run.
    As for what your saying, it's very even keel, and "melo" mono-toned, whatever word you want to sue to describe your down the middle statements…andfor the most part, I agree with what your saying, the difference between me and you is very simple : I give the individuals the benefit of the doubt here. I find it very hard to beleive what these people claim. Abusing and stealing, and then saying that it's the RAbbi's and the students of the rabbi's doing these things? I've spoken to converts, they said they had to send hundreds of e-mails, and come back to the office a few times, and paper work twice three times sometimes, things of this nature, jumping through hoops, to say they are being abused? or the other junk these people claim? Come on. Keeping in mind of coarse, that no one's perfect. and one seminary, could have gone off the proper path, and done some bad things, but this brings down the whole converstion process? I don't buy it.
    They talk badly about your behind your back if you complain? blacklist you?  again I don't buy it, and if they do, then tough luck? that's how Jews are today. Your telling me I don't know what's going on yet you think Jews are so perfect? They have many problems. The releigous jews, are not perfect. Plain and simple. Lashon Hara is a big problem,what our solution? Put a TV in their home, with entertainment tonight, find out all the gossip on the stars. good idea no? Or better yet force the internet in their rooms, get all the gossip on every! Anyhow, Dont' hold them to a higher standard then you, judge them equally, just like you want to be judged.
    At the end of the day though, your right. This is just arguing for the sake of arguing, why?
    becuase the people who are learning Torah all day, make the descions in ther real world, and they govern the process, and gaurd the process, making sure it's rooted in the tradition we recieved from Moses, and they, rightfully so, don't really care what the heck we think about how they are doing their job, and to tell you the truth, it's better that way, becuase really, what do we know about what the Torah says about converstion. and the process. and the laws as brought down in the Set Table. and the Talmud and what it says….we are incompetent fools, who think that our opinion counts for somthing, but someone forgot to tell us, this isn't a democrecy (to a certaint extent)

  • batyosef

    I do not believe that any sincere convert thinks the actual learning process is too long or too strenuous.  There is alot of information, Torah, culture, lifestyle, history, practices, halacha, brachas, dates, mindset, etc etc. to be learned and absorbed.  The convert WANTS to learn all of these things and understands and accepts that it will be a long process, not unlike getting a college degree. And I believe that converts also understand WHY the Rabbis feel they must "turn away the prospective convert 3 times.

    But I think the valid point of this discussion is why do some of the Rabbis and teachers of some conversion programs think it is their responsibility to make the converts-in-training to suffer?  Where does this thinking come from and what is the purpose of it?

     Perhaps this is just a good chance to relook at the system in place and try to improve it.

     

  • Concerned Yid

    (this is not a response to your last post, but the post before) I´m not sure what you read into the previous post, it sounds to me that you are arguing for argument sake. You also seem like a very young person, who lives a sheltered religious life, and doesn´t have a clue what really goes on in the live outside. let alone in the life of a convert. But I´ll bite.

    As far as the ´jumping through hoops´ goes, as long as the jumping through hoops are within a clear set of rules, that don't keep changing, and are decent, then most converts don´t mind the struggle of becoming a Jew. Anyone knows, that when you choose to be a Jew, you are being more scrutinized then a born Yid. And most true converts are willing to make these sacrifices. As you may have read from the posts above, some of the schools lack any
    kind of manners, or decency, and feel they can torture a convert, drain them
    emotionally, financially, and spiritually.

    As far as law school, or becoming a doctor goes, yes that too takes years, and comes with strict rules. And one could argue, it can be very draining as well. But, if you are part of a university and there is a teacher, or several teachers who think they have the right to beat you down, torture you, all in the disguise of making a better doctor/lawyer of you. (And don´t get me started about the sexual abuse). Then there is a student council, or a dean, or a board, you can go to, feel save, be heard, even file a complaint, without any repercussion of you graduating.

    In the case of conversion in Israel, there is none, no protection. Worst, if you do, or say anything to upset the teacher, they will blacklist you, this means you cannot convert in the following 3 years, worldwide! Spread viscous rumours about you, blatant lies.  Loshon Hara seems to be no issue to them. That's inhumane, illegal, not to mention un-Jewish (referring back to what the previous posters meant, when they quoted 'light unto the nation' 'kindness to strangers'). And THAT´s what the posts above are
    about, not about the strictness of a conversion school, not about the lenght of a conversion process, but about the treatment they receive.

    Now, up to a certain point, I can see those teachers point of view. They feel they are doing a right thing, ridding Klal Yisrael of potential apikorim. Or they feel that this suffering should be part of the conversion process, and they are the rightful person to inflickt that suffering. But frankly, who are they? Shouldn´t the rabbis be in charge? So, if for some reason, they feel a student isn´t ready to convert, shouldn´t that be discussed with the rabbi? And shouldn´t the convert have a right to be heard as well? If a convert has a rabbi, who supports the convert, and sends a convert to their school for teachings only. How dare they, sabotage someone conversion. Their job is to teach, to the best of their abilities, to advise the rabbi of their findings, to step back, let the rabbi make his decision, respect his decision, and have some Emunah in the course of actions

    http://conversioninisrael.blogspot.com/

    ´Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the silent voice at the end of the day saying 'I will try again tomorrow´

  • antiShmarya

    You can read it in French, or Englsih, or even hebrew, the "bible" comes in Hebrew today also….Ruth 1:8, roughly is where the dialogue starts…
    you'll see clearly, that Naomi is trying to dissuasy (don't know how to spell) is trying to push them off….
    There is no anger with converts, infact all the items you mentioned, are after they convert, before a convert converts, they aren't jewish, and they are treated as jews treated all other nations. In fact, as i'm sure you know, certain nations aren't allowed in, at all. Why? isn't the G-d of israel a g-d of all people? So they should all be allowed to join no? I'm still confused, why do you accept Harvard, or Yale or anyother school, who definatly "torment" their students in order to get in. Why should I require certain IQ or certain semester average, or any other requirements to get into these big schools? WHy? why don't we protest that?
    As for educated uneducated bit, agreed it might have been a little over the edge,
    but if you weren't so conserned about your own ego, and pushing your own points, and instead listened (read) what i'm trying to write and actually hear (read) the other side, maybe you wouldn't consider it "abuse" rather would consder it positive encouragement.
    Now, I would love to hear what you understand to be" a light to the nations?"
    And if you can try real hard, dont' tell me what YOU think, tell me what the G-d of israel, the one who commanded us this, thinks, and tells us it means,
    you see the difference?
    And just for the record, i'm not where near educated enough to join the conversation. They have people who have been learning for 50,60 years, who have learnt under their fathers, and uner thier grand fathers, for a chain back to Moses, the greatest phrophet to live, me some bum of the street has what to say, or what to tell them in how they should run their conversation? Seriously, it's a joke. I'm a joke. I should work on trying to better my own Judaism, before trying to teach / tell the whole nation how to run….

    2nd…the wise of the wisest. Open a siddur that's not yours once in a while. You'll be shocked to see, that not all siddur's have the text you quoted. Just a nice little side point for your to look into…..
    Anyhow, I agree with you 100%. I try, when I find out someone is a Ger, or trying to become one, to help them out to the best of my ability, and show respect to them, as I understand the Torah tells us to, however, what they are before converting, is not-jewish, whatever sect or walk of life they are coming from. And since we all agree the jewish people, being "Holy" or different, or whatever work for seperate you choose, me being a member, definatly calls for strickt policey's in who get's in. Maybe someone only wants in to get married to a Jew. Has no intentions of keeping the Torah, or coming close to the G-d of Israel. We suffered greatly, and we long greatly for our Beis Hamedresh, we have gone through so much, and the end is near, and the great rewards we read about and dream about, and our fathers told us about, are right around the corner, who, if they heard about it, wouldn't want in?? ANd you just want to let them in….doesn't make sence….ethier you don't appreciate what you have as a Jew, or your not Jewish? which doesn't make sence, becuase you show the signs of compassion, and love, which are Jewish traits, but they like all charachter traits, need to be used in appropriate proportion, and in approprait times. To use compassion at a time your child really needs discipline, is wrong, in fact wrong to the point the Torah even says so,( see how that works?)
    If you want to argue about the Jews as a whole, needing to treat the ger-tzedilks (the righteous converts) better, then we can, I don't know enough ethier way to say somthing, but in terms of the process they go to, let's leave it up to the professionals, who have been learning and applying and learning how to apply for many many years, and let's just do our best to work on ourselves, and prepair ourselves for the time to come……

  • Anonymous

    "….should not the people who are Jewish test them? and make sure they are
    becoming Jewish for the right reasons, as you said, to people apart of
    the nation of G-d, and to keep the Torah, and the mitzvot
    (commandments, 613 of them, all of them, not less even one, which means
    everything)
    Is that really to much to ask for? Sincerety."

    Dear Reply to the Reply,

    If the Jews could only keep one mitzvot…."The positive and active commandment to love your fellow Jew as yourself"…..but the Ultra-Orthodox cannot even keep that one simple commandment. Without it, all their praying and mitzvot is irrelevant.

    Conversion programs are made up of people, not idols. You cannot control a convert's every thought or motive. Perhaps if you trust in Hashem, that He will do His job and you do yours then we won't be out straining ourselves trying to "catch insincerity" because as a mere human, you never know if you are bias or misreading what you see in another person. Who are any of us to say who is worthy? It's just mind control!

  • Anonymous

    now wait a second. let's analize your words, and see if what I got was right :

    No one should want to be a Jew. Yet , despite all we listed, you have individuals who do want to be Jewish. Why do they want to be Jewish? Becuase they realized, that the Jewish people, as you said your self

    "the jews aren't going away anywhere any time.soon or basically EVER!  "

    So, when certain "individuals" who for whatever reason, come across the Jews or come across the idea that the Jews will, again as you said, exist forever (whatever forever means) should not the people who are Jewish test them? and make sure they are becoming Jewish for the right reasons, as you said, to people apart of the nation of G-d, and to keep the Torah, and the mitzvot (commandments, 613 of them, all of them, not less even one, which means everything)
    Is that really to much to ask for? Sincerety. and ensuring they are doing it for the right reasons, and not the "wonderful benefits"…
    not to mention, it aint easy being Jewish….becuase man they have alot of rules to follow…..and these converts have to keep them, even more so then secular turned religous jews!

    Again, is it to much to ask for sincerety? I hear where they are coming from, ok, so maybe they are alittle extreme, but in today's world, everything is extreme….

  • Concerned Yid

    I've noticed that the blog got cancelled, I am more than willing to continue a blog, it really doesn't have to be negative stories.

    A blog that allows converts to tell their stories and leave advice for future converts.Also stories about living in Israel will be featured.

    The one I will start is http://conversioninisrael.blogspot.com/

    Please send me your stories concernedyid@gmail.com

  • Anonymous

    in an odd way, you make an interesting point…

    "just let whoever wants in…in"

    i mean really, who would WANT to be a Jew? the fact that in spite of everything you listed in the way of holocausts, expulsions, being hunted, hounded and murdered from one end of the earth to the other, that someone actually wants to be a jew!? 

    these indiviudals sell all their possessions, give up home, family, careers, medical benefits, reputation, support systems, break the hearts of their families, travel to a hostile, dangerous foreign country only to be forced to jump through unbelievably hoops, overcome huge obstacles and stumbling blocks that are put in front of them by the religious jews … they do this all because something inside them is telling them that they are suppose to align themselves with the people of israel… the God of Israel….  and then the people that are suppose to be helping them doubt their sincerity! … and try to make it even harder for them??!! 

    but you have one huge misconception… the jews aren't going away anywhere any time.soon or basically EVER! 

    Hashem is regathering His exiles from the four corners of the earth… and they are returning … and nothing is going to stop this flood… in spite of the fact that many of the religious jews are making it so horribly difficult for them… i think some people may have alot to answer for in the despicable way they are treating the ger… 

     

     

     

  • Anonymous

    Living in Jerusalem and having problems with my papers for the rabbanut myself, I have been following the entire Ohel Sarah Imenu story for a few days now. Even before the current stories came up I heard that this is very strict and brainwashing program.

    May I just suggest to everyone out here to be *very* careful about contacting an anonymous person with the details of her story as suggested above? Ohel Sarah Imenu uses a gmail address itself, and it is no more that a gut feeling but nvost18@gmail.com could easily be something like nVORST with 18 for chai added. If there are really some rabbis out here who want to help–and there is a lot of motion in town currently b/o the guir crisis–a safer way of making contact should be found so that no more women get hurt in one way or the other. Better safe than sorry…

    Just my 2 agorot.

  • NVST18@gmail.com

    If you or anyone you know has studied in Ohel Sarah Imeinu or has gone before Rav Eisenstein and been treated with disrespect…please contact me at nvst18@gmail.com.

    I have spoken with several Rabbis who want to deal with this problem immediately, once and for all. But we need signed statements from victims, or we can do nothing.

  • Simcha

    Eisenstein was aware of the fact.

     He refused to act on the information, even though, at the time, Vorst was still healthy (he latter had a stroke) and had hit on some of the girls. Eisenstein didn't seem to be bothered that a sex fiend was running a girls program. Not only that, Eisenstein employed Vorst as a translator, knowing full well that Vorst is a sicko.

    By the way, Vorst's problems were a big scandal in the Charedi city of Emanuel, and that is why he was kicked out of town.

  • Simcha

    Mrs. Vorst's husband, Moshe Yosef Vorst, is a sexual pervert.

     He was kicked out of a number of charedi communities due to his activities.

     Stay away!

  • ThorsProvoni

    Sefer Hasidim on Intermarriage

    The offspring of a Jew who marries a wife not of the Jewish race, but who is a woman of good heart, modesty and charity, must be preferred to the children of a Jewess by birth who is, however, destitute of the same qualities.

    And before the peanut gallery start ranting that the book was referring to a non-Jewish woman that converted to Judaism, I have looked fairly carefully over relevant Geniza texts, and I can make a fairly good case that many Rabbanite Jewish communities were still using a patrilineal definition of Jewishness during the time period Sefer Hasidim was compiled.

    The behavior of Haredi Rabbis seems to prove the claim of Sefer Hasidim.

     

  • Anonymous

    …as they said in the '60s.

     These sad, sad men.  Don't they realize that at the end of the day, they are going to either create a backlash so violent that Humanist Rabbis can perform marriages in Israel, or a schism that will leave the tiny few who are good enough for the ever-increasing, ever more arbitrary "halakha" of the Haredi.  

    The revocations of these conversions is chilul HaShem.  It is not the conversions that are void, but their annulment.