Religion & Beliefs
Breslov Hasidim’s Obsession with Sex
By Lori Gross / January 20, 2009
A pet cause of the Breslov chassidic sect — reputed to be a permissive, new age, gleeful, alternative to the other Hasidic orders — is sexual restraint. Specifically, followers of Breslov Hasidut focus on the widespread eradication of sexual thoughts, and especially any self-abatement of resulting urges. Accordingly, there have been some robust Web efforts at plugging the sexual dam. Rebbe Nachman was the founder, or ‘patron saint’ of Breslov Hasidism, and was the grandson of the Baal Shem Tov, who himself was the founder of all Hasidic Judaism. Nachman placed great emphasis on exuberance, and joyful worship of God. He believed that there is "no despair in the world", and that one should constantly be in a state of jubilant exultation of the creator. For this reason, one faction of Breslovers maintains a small fleet of GMC vans, which they drive around Israel blasting religious music — often featuring the mantra "Na Nach Nachma Nachman"– and roping passersby into dancing and singing with them, sometimes on top of the vans. This faction may also be recognized by their honking white yarmulkes, with the mantra "Na Nach Nachma" printed on them — which have become an Israeli kitsch collectable. The Jerusalem Post estimated in 2006 that there are 80 families belonging to this faction of "Na Nachmanim," most of whom are of Mizrachi origin — many with a history of substance abuse — and were only recently swayed to Breslov Hasidism, or affiliated one generation back. Despite being only a small fringe of the mainstream, they are the more public face of Breslover Hasidut, relaying an image of hippy laxity. The more prevailing group of Breslovers can trace their ancestral ties closer to Rebbe Nachman’s original followers, and the rift from his grandfather’s Hasidic establishment. Breslover Hasidut was birthed in the town of Bratslav, Ukraine at the turn of the 19th century after Nachman’s followers were detached from the larger Hasidic community, because of their cultish adulation of Nachman — an adulation that still continues today. In-fighting for control of the Baal Shem Tov’s Hasidic dynasty between Breslovers and early Lubavitch also caused a rift. Today the Lubavitch and Breslov community still compete — but now in their outreach initiatives, not for control of the Hasidic movement. One of their biggest campaigns has been against the ‘wasting of seed’, or hotza’at zera levatalah. Though the prohibition is not explicitly mentioned in the Torah, it derives from the Biblical story of Onan, who was asked to sleep with his late brother’s wife, Tamar, in order to produce an heir. Onan and Tamar did sleep together, but Onan disengaged, electing to spill his seed on the ground. God killed him. From this, Biblical commentators deduced a Divine prohibition against extra-uteral ejaculation — whether in the audience of a partner, or alone. It should be noted that sex for the purpose of recreation, rather than mere procreation, is perfectly kosher. Also, the (explicit) prohibition against self-satisfaction in Judaism, as opposed to most Christian sects and Islam, does not apply to women. Breslover Jews are particularly fearful of the spiritual ramifications of Onanism. Rebbe Nachman himself purportedly married soon after his Bar Mitzvah in order to avoid cowing to his urges. He also compiled ten psalms for incantation (in this order: Psalms 16, 32, 41, 42, 59, 77, 90, 105, 137, and 150) for what he called the "general fix", which (among other sins) constitute a special spiritual remedy for nocturnal emissions. To be sure, the mainstream ultra-Orthodox community is staunchly against masturbation. However, for penance, most modern rabbis would recommend Torah study and charitable donations rather than the 84 fasts for each one session demanded by one of Talmud’s sages. The esteemed Orthodox rabbi, Abraham Danziger was a contemporary of Rabbi Nachman. Danziger contended in his influential work Chayei Adam, that though the spiritual ramifications of masturbation are tantamount to murder, if a fellow can’t restrain himself, then self-amusement is a preferable alternative to bedding a prostitute, a menstruating woman, or another guy’s wife. Breslovers and Lubavitchers maintain that it is the worst sin one can commit. Often, they cite a passage in Tanya — a sacred Lubavitch text based heavily upon the Zohar — which indicates that even incest is less heinous than male masturbation. The Zohar refers to spilt semen as "wasted [blood]"; The heft of the sin is attributed to the frittering of sperm, which has the potential to beget life. Even though Tanya is a Chabad text, it is Breslovers who obsess over the prohibition. Sociologically, this is likely tied to Rebbe Nachman’s philosophy of Halakhic observance; pick one mitzvah to observe obsessively, and observe the rest with moderate vigor. Breslovers usually pick the mitzvah of self restraint, because of the grave way the Talmud and Tanya treat masturbation; It reads like the worst sin, and so — very ambitiously — most pick that prohibition to adhere to fanatically.
POST A COMMENT
My husband and I do not belittle or shame our sons into thinking that letting off a little steam is sinful. They are too young to marry and too healthy to suppress the urge. So as long as they are not obsessive or masturbating instead of doing their homework we consider it a non-issue. As long as they don’t hurt themselves or become immune to desiring a real life partner I as a religious person see no harm in masurbation. Yes I would be VERY concerned if at age 30 neither of them were married and masturbating instead of getting on with their lives. Give me grandkids or give me death.
Onanism involves a retreat into the imagination, and can lead to delusion. Imaginary women replace real ones. The real woman is not loved and she is relpaced by photos and imaginings. The man is told he is single, but does not like it, he believes he has had many women, this is delusion. If a man were to see a video of himself engaging in Onanism, he would be extremely disturbed. "I thought there was a woman," he would say, "thats not how I remember it."
THE WORLDWIDE SYMPTOMS AND RESULTS OF MASTURBATION:
LEARNING TO THINK LIKE A MURDERER
1. Learning to destroy evidence (carefully wiping away the "blood" and
flushing it down the toilet)
2. Obsession with secrecy
3. Cover-ups and deception
4. Fear of being found out
5. Lying to loved ones
———-
From the Talmud: “Rabbi Yitzhak and Rabbi Ami said: It is as if
here were a murderer, as
is written, ‘Slaughterers of children in the valleys, under the clefts
of the rocks.’” (Yishayahu, 57:5)
THE WORLDWIDE SYMPTOMS AND RESULTS OF MASTURBATION:
NO INTIMACY
1. Shyness with girls
2. Pride, thinking one is virtuous for being "celibate"
3. Looking down on men with women
4. Belief that sex is dirty
5. Teaching others that sex is dirty
6. Not noticing the beauty of women
7. Women thinking they are not beautiful and not being loved 8. Seeing women as things and not people (my opinion: Onanism does this more than any other sin)9. Misogyny and suffering of women
10. Not having sexual relations with a woman
11. Locating one’s self to places where there are no women during one’s
youth (army and frontlines, Catholic priesthood)
12. Gravitating to religions that disregard masturbation and/or encourage "celibacy" (New Testament, for ex.)
———-
Excerpt from Zohar, Bereshit 61b: Rabbi Yitzhak asked, Why did the
Holy One, Blessed Be He judge the world
with water, and not with fire or something else? Rabbi Shimon answered:
This is a secret. Through their sin of corrupting their ways, they
prevented the upper waters and the lower waters from uniting as they
should. Since in corrupting their ways (spilling semen in vain) they did
not allow male and female waters to join, thus they were punished with
water, for the transgression of wasting their water.
Furthermore, the waters were boiling and caused their skin to peel off,
just as they had corrupted their ways by spilling their hot semen –
measure for measure.
LET ME END BY SAYING MY OPINION: THE IDEA THAT SEX IS DIRTY IS ITSELF A SYMPTOM OF SEXUAL IMMORALITY. REMOVE SEXUAL IMMORALITY AND PEOPLE RECOGNIZE THAT SEX IS A GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD THING
"I have my faith that G-d knows what he’s doing."
As well you should. But the parshah a few weeks ago did illustrate that the righteous will question Divine intentions. And also, cutting off a baby boy’s foreskin when he is but days old and can’t possibly resist, is categorically "unilateral" — whether a "one-time procedure", or not. I would rethink the comparison of removing a chunk of a person’s genitals, to imbuing them with manners, or bathing them; it’s not so apt.
The underlying assumption to smokesteam’s attack, that I am wealthy, is just bizarre.
Well, you know – that picture of you in the gold jacket isn’t helping!
The underlying assumption to smokesteam’s attack, that I am wealthy, is just bizarre. I wish I suffered such an affliction to my street cred. It sounds like a wonderful problem to have.
His feelings about his penis are his business, he said his piece I said mine.
Penises and income are not related by any valid statistical measures. Even a poor man can worry about the state of his penis or if maintaining the Covenant of Abraham is a mitzvah or a barbaric outdated tradition but I’m figuring the poor man has less time for such things. Does the Talmud not say that a man who is impoverished is as good as dead? Can a dead man worry about his foreskin?
As far as "classist sensibilities" goes, so I look down on the idle rich. If that makes me a "classist" then I guess I should print up a snide T Shirt design and sell it to the loafing privilaged classes. OTOH since my employer ceased operations yesterday I’m now technically a member of the loafing class. Guess that means I’d best go get me a job so I can continue the class struggle.
/if this were any other message board someone would have Godwined this thread by now with a "you know who else hated circumcised penises?" comment
Your joke was a rebuttal to David’s point. What difference should it make if someone is living out of "Mommy’s Magic Purse" and "has the option of free time"? Again, would that void any feelings they may have about their own genitalia? Because that is where the ironic humor of this joke is meant to derive from. Whoever initially wrote that was playing on classist sensibilities to discredit people like David.
Lori Gross,
"Well off" isnt an insult at all. "Trustafarian" or similar are intended to belittle. See the difference? The first does not indicate if the person is self made or not , the second clearly implies something derogatory, that they are living out of Mommy’s Magic Purse. In common American English, any descriptor of wealth implies that the described person has an option of free time. Free time to worry about if their dick has a hat for example. Clear now? Whatever meager humor their was in my first reply is now dead and burried.
As far as "classist incitement" goes I have no use for that kind of thinking. Monetary wealth or poverty are not by themselves indicators that a person should be taken seriously on any matter nor of their commitment to Torah. Examples abound, I’m sure you can find them yourself.
As for taking cheap shots at two copy editing errors, that is indeed hipster incitement.
David Kelsey,
I’ll stop joking at your expense now. Thanks for being a sport.
It’s a shame, smokestream, that you have now declined us all the benefit of explaining your initial comment to David. I am sure that in explanation it would have been revealed as both eloquent and wise. Right now, it just reads like another typically hipster classist incitement — usually against their very own class; Don’t listen to him, he is "well off". He is? Let’s not pay any attention then.
Kelsey is one of the most articulate, free-thinking Jewish intellectuals around. The fact that I personally disagree with his stance on circumcision, or that he made two copy-editing errors, are really petty reasons to dismiss his points.
"I love people who accuse others of being ‘well off’ as a form of insult."
I love people who read meaning that aint there to begin with. If you didnt think the little joke was funny fine, but if you didnt get it, I’m not gonna explain it to you.
"only spoiled brats worry about such little things like BASIC childs’
rights, or cutting genitilia. Real people don’t worry about such things"
Hey now! Even spoiled brats are real people. BTW I fully support the right of any child to learn to program in BASIC. You can go back and forth whether its a mizvah or not and put in wishy washy unprovable claims about "reduction of pleasure" but it still comes off as axe grinding. (free protip: words in all caps and spelling errors on key words make you look like more of a kook.)
However, much of the literature that discusses the spiritual benefits
of circumcision is assuming that it is a divine commandment, and are
seeking the universal Jewish messasge within that commandment. So,
agreed that human beings would be a little off base to promote
circumcision as a way of minimizing pleasure, but once it comes from
G-d, there is value to interpreting the message.
Most circumcizing cultures (including ours) claim directives from God, and most (including ours) concurrently point to the *benefits* of reducing sexual pleasure.
There is no reason to pay believe any of these claims, nor buy into the supposed preference for such cuttings.
However, much of the literature that discusses the spiritual benefits of circumcision is assuming that it is a divine commandment, and are seeking the universal Jewish messasge within that commandment. So, agreed that human beings would be a little off base to promote circumcision as a way of minimizing pleasure, but once it comes from G-d, there is value to interpreting the message. This is what the classical commentators are attempting to extrapolate. However, one could grapple with the issue ascribing a messsage to G-d that may contradict basic human rights.
I am saying is that once it becomes clear that there are gray areas
within rights, which obviously everyone agrees to, I can make my case
that circumcision is not barbaric, especially assuming it is prescribed
by G-d through the Torah.
If in reality most of us do not, in fact, assume that there was such a God given presecription, this is not a gray issue at all. In fact, there is no gray. Either you believe it is God given, and you do whatever the rabbis interpret you must do, or you don’t believe it is God given, and you don’t do ancient rites when they conflict with human rights, as the cost of tribalism and ritual becomes too great.
The only reason it is in the gray area is because 1) Liberal Jews entertain that it is God given but don’t actually believe it, and 2) Liberal Jews deceptively pretend circ is harmless/beneficial in order to not ask themselves the tough question.
I don’t think that about human rights activists at all. All I am saying is that once it becomes clear that there are gray areas within rights, which obviously everyone agrees to, I can make my case that circumcision is not barbaric, especially assuming it is prescribed by G-d through the Torah.
I was actually defending the straw-man that you put up that portays all proponents of bris milah as twisted penis-cutters. Hence my exaggeration about the olympic sport. You are making it seem that I, and others like me, think that way.
I do not appreciate you calling me names like "shmatte-head "and calling me an "Big Aish-type" when you are only familiar with a few comments I have made on a website.
I, in fact, like this site becasue it gives me access to different ways of thinking that I was not privy to in my education. I appreciate that people have different points of view; I am just defending mine. I do not see things in black and white, as you may assume that I do, and I consider my beliefs on a constant basis.
So do me a favor and ease up. Thanks.
The concept of basic rights does not mean that you can’t force a child into anything.
No. That’s silly. Stop pretending that all human rights advocates are a bunch of permissive hippies.You are fooling only yourselves. "Yourselves," meaning you and other Big Aish types who pretend genital cutting is like a vaccination or a well-deserved disciplining.
I meant that proponents of bris milah do not believe in making genital-cutting an olympic sport
What exactly do you think you are refuting? Is there someone in this conversation making claims no one else on this thread is privy to except youself?
David and Lori –
Sorry, I thought unilaterally meant across the board which, incidentally, is exactly the opposite of what it means.
I meant that proponents of bris milah do not believe in making genital-cutting an olympic sport. It is a one-time procedure, that’s it.
Secondly, assuming that Torah is the word of (yes, I understand the severity of this assumption in the current forum) G-d, the commandment for circumcision is divine, which is what I mean when I say "G-d knows what he is doing." So I am not "overrulling G-d."
There are philosophical discussions about why G-d would create a person an then tell us to change him. Some may view such explanations as apologetics…they are entitled. I have no problem with the righteous asking why.
The comparison to teaching manners was meant as exaggeration to prove a point: The concept of basic rights does not mean that you can’t force a child into anything. Certain things are for the child’s benefit, and certain things are required by Jewish law and are therefore part of the child’s heritage, and can therefore be viewed as beneficial. I’m sorry if it came off as insensitive.
Finally, that shmatte-head comment was really uncalled for.
Apparently, there are Hareidim who believe that masturbation creates
"children" in "spiritual realms" who torment the poor self-gratifier.
I read a statement by a Sephardic rabbi to this effect, and Kelsey told
me it’s actually a widespread belief.
I was under the impression that the "hippies" are representative of Breslov, and that the fundamentalist element is the minority – but I’ve come across enough of this sort of thing over the past couple of years to lead me to believe you may very well be right.
Another manifestation of Hareidi lunacy. Just put it on the pile. And the Tanya; don’t even get me started.
To which I’ll merely add,
extra-uteral ejaculation
You kiss your parents with that mouth?!
I don’t think that proponents of bris milah (such as G-d for instance)
are in favor of unilaterally promoting the cutting the genitalia of
children.
The medical pro-circ camp which seeks routine neonatal circumcision is currently and has been historically disproportionately Jewish since the late 19th century . Look at the names.
Additionally, the lack of foreskin is often explained as a symbolic
representation of what a person can accomplish with restraint.
But it isn’t merely symbolic. It does real damage. So do pretty much all genital cuttings which seek to promote sexual restraint.
Not necessarily that the actual circumcision minimizes the desire.
Genital cutting does not seek to curb actual desire, but rather, actual enjoyment.
Whatever it is, I have my faith that G-d knows what he’s doing.
So do the Kurds and all those Islamic societies which cut both their boys and their girls. But the fact is, God created boys and girls with intact genitilia. Perhaps you and all the other shmatte-heads need to revisit whether you are truly authorized to overrule God.
David –
I don’t think that proponents of bris milah (such as G-d for instance) are in favor of unilaterally promoting the cutting the genitalia of children. Last time I checked, this was a one-time procedure that does not put the child in danger.
Would you say that people who make their children say please before giving them something are promoting brainwashing of male and female children? Or what about giving a child a bath? Parents in favor of chinese water torture?
Additionally, the lack of foreskin is often explained as a symbolic representation of what a person can accomplish with restraint. Not necessarily that the actual circumcision minimizes the desire. Whatever it is, I have my faith that G-d knows what he’s doing. (I know that last line is like human blood to the jewcy-columnists shark. Try to take it easy on me.)
If more comely young Jewish women would but understand that male masturbation is the worst sin that a Jewish man is capable of, maybe they’d be more inclined to interdict this evil by offering a warm and welcoming place for Jewish semen to go to. Yet they insist on studying a man’s income statements and future "prospects" before having sex with him, thereby assuring both male masturbation and the ultimate triumph of the shiksa menace in all her forms.
Jewish educators – it is long past time that you trained young Jewish women to step up and help Jewish men fight this evil. We cannot do it alone.
"To paraphrase something I read elsewhere, only well off neurotic males could stare down and worry that their dick has no hat."
Right, David Kelsey was born of the moneyed elite. And (if it were true) that would certainly disqualify him from any stance on even his own genitalia. I love people who accuse others of being "well off" as a form of insult. We should start in next on attractive and smart people.
To paraphrase something I read elsewhere, only well off neurotic males could stare down and worry that their dick has no hat.
Yes, only spoiled brats worry about such little things like BASIC childs’ rights, or cutting genitilia. Real people don’t worry about such things…unless they are the ones promoting the cutting of male or female children. Then clearly they are focused on such things for honorable reasons.
To paraphrase something I read elsewhere, only well off neurotic males could stare down and worry that their dick has no hat.
The Shulchan Aruch – the mainstream OJ’s book of conduct specifically calls out masturbation as the "worst sin in the Torah" (although, the commentators talk their way out of it). You’re right though, some, specifically Breslovers, make self-gratification a larger issue than some others. In a typical Chasidic Yeshiva talking about masturbation – or anything sexual at all – is taboo, but the implications of the semi-daily speeches about “kedishe”(holiness) is understood by most.
The 84 fasts can be abolished with eating sugar cubes or garlic heads from a pidyon ha’ben (I kid you not – it’s what happens when one legal fiction tramples another legal fiction – the weirdest kind of ideas surface). Otherwise the obsessive guilt-ridden physically healthy bachelors would die from hunger.
Demanding 84 fasts as a punishment for masturbation is not as bad as slicing off a baby’s foreskin in order to preempt such an action in the first place. If we look at classical commentary, we see Judaism’s obession with sexual purity is directly intertwined with circumcision itself, as it is in all circumcising cultures.
Wanna post your own comments? Gotta log in first!