UPDATE: Jews and Armenians discuss genocide denial at UCLA, say stirring things

     I hear you, Joey, but I am not sure that it is enough to touch just one person. Remember Andrew Tarsy?  He tried to raise his lone voice against the Turkish denialist campaign which is being supported by the ADL and Abe Foxman reacted in the only way he knew how, to fire him. When the New England regional ADL members voiced their outrage over his termination, he was reinstated only to "resign" shortly thereafter.

     It is for these reasons that websites such as your Jewcy are vitally important not just for providing a place to discuss issues involving Jews, but truly as a forum to change the world, even if in only a small way.  Some may wonder why Jewcy even bothers to include these discussions on its site, but as history has shown us, when society stands silenty by and allows something to occur, it will undoubtly reoccur.  I don't mean to sound melodramatic but if we can actually halt genocide denial, think about the ramifications for those suffering in Darfur as well as those victims of Holocaust and Genocide everywhere. 

     By alerting your readers to the current challenges facing the Armenians, the victims of the first genocide of the 20th century, one which Hitler used as a blueprint for his own evil plans, you are sharing a glimpse of what history may have in store for the Jewish people.  You are also touching thousands of people who we can only hope will stand up and voice their outrage to any organization that allows the perpetration of Genocide. Denial, is, after all, the last stage of Genocide, is it not?

Anoosh, I agree entirely, "touching one person" is nice but really not going to get the job done here. In order to change the behavior of these organizations we need to influence their supporters and people within the organizations themselves. What I meant above was that I'll consider the event a success if it leads to one person in either of those organizations making a stink.

Thanks again!

Joey,

I would say every little bit counts. Denying the Armenian genocide is a decade-old practice at the AJC and the ADL, and it will take a lot of effort and advocacy to bring these organizations to the right side of this issue, but I believe every occasion to expose their blatant hypocrisy and lack of a moral compass is tremendously valuable.

Gary
Toronto, Canada  

Well, the ADL and AJC are just the start, but there are huge hurdles in the US... primarily because they share their stance w/ none other than the state of Israel, where just recently a prominent government spokesperson threatened the Palestinians w/ a 'holocaust'. Think about it, please!  Is there no end to the doublespeak? The people who were victims of the Holocaust deny recognition to the Armenians and also threaten a minority group living under their wing w/ the same, horrible fate. This is just totally insane...and has to stop, but how? Tell me...how? 

I consider myself mighty lucky for having been amongst an audience of, ostensibly, 350+plus people ( I was told the seating capacity of Moore hall is 400) to bear witness to a most compelling discussion on the chilling realities of genocide, denial, and post-denial reverberation on survivors, as seen through the mind's eye of the distinguished panelists ( Dr. David Myers, Dr. Richard Hovanessian, Mr. Aram Hamparian and last but not least, Mr. Joey Kurtzman.)

Before I even type another word, I would like to take this opportunity to specially thank Mr. Joey Kurtzman for having the courage, integrity, and probity for championing a cause of paramount magnitude of its humankind. It was a pleasure meeting you and shaking your hands sir, you have my utmost respect and admiration.On that stage you said what you meant and you meant what you said.

Personally, I felt better coming out of the meeting than going in. After all, I was not expecting home runs; I was just as happy to see thought provoking base hits being served. To use another sport analogy, if I may: "You miss all hundred percent of the shots you never take." Well, that evening, cries of justice fired few shots at the goal keepers of "Turkish and Jewish denier" teams.

There were two other eerily similar byproducts of stark realities that has manifested itself in the children of, both, genocide perpetrators and genocide victims alike, as articulated By Dr. Richard Hovanessian.The post-genocide generations of both Turks and Armenians are heavily burdened by inordinate amount of weight on their shoulders. Turks trying to deny the undeniable and the Armenians seeking justice for nearly a century.

All I can say, be patient and unflappable. Stay informed, active, and energized. Your tenacity and resolve is the only viable linchpin for success; The seeds you sow today may very well be for the benefit of future generations of Armenians to reap.

The panel discussion sounds like it was interesting.  Is there any way you can produce a summary or transcripts of the discussion on this website?

Anonymous, I'm told that somebody filmed it, I'll see if I can track that down.

I have met very few who have passion as you!  Many talk but not act.  Do not be at all disappointment, what you did there (and I wish I was there) was give awareness.  Believe it or not if you created a doubt in one person's mind, it was all worth it. 

I agree with Alamity,  Armenians don't expect much just to keep the hope (the candle lit) in people's hearts.  The Armenian's hope reminds me of the Hanukkah lamp, where the oil candle lasted more than anyone thought would.

The world would be a better place with more people like you!

With Much Respect,

Peace Love Unity 

Dear Peace Love Unity,

 I am back from my business trip and  ready/willing to work on a petition with you and Mr. Kurtzman. IMHO it may be broader than only Armenian Genocide but it can be based on the example of this particular manslaughter.

And - this is something to humor all of you here. As you may recall, the open letter was initiated to shame the well-educated arrogant Jewish Medical Professor who denied Genocide in a letter to a Jewish newspaper -  and it sounded as if it was something written over the morning cup of coffee: "hey guys, there was no such thing as Armenian Genocide, it is all BS!" Well, the petition was filed here:

http://www.gopetition.com/online/17164.html

And - congratulations are in order: it was already  infiltrated by the anti-Armenian opponent posing as Turkish Prime-Minister and as Ms. Kardashian. Strangely enough, both message came from the same computer in the state of New York - and not from California or Turkey ;). Of course, both of these childishly-immature postings were removed. but - they brought a smile on my face, for sure.

Dear MicroMike,

I have couple of questions for you:

1.  What is your aim of this petition?  I guess the topic of discussion

2.  Will you be posting the petition on the www.gopetition.com, or somewhere else?

I have never written a petition, and a bit honestly "frightened" by that thought.  I think, it's appropriate for you to start and if you like i can make my enter my comments in there.

Regards,

PLU 

PLU,

1. Yes, the goal (at least as I see it) is the topic of our current discussion.

2. Yes, I would suggest to use this exactly site that you mentioned.

3. Before doing anything, I would like to hear Mr. Kurtzman's opinion on this matter: after all, we are all here inspired by his marvelous job, and I value his opinion tremendously.

4. As for being frightened - perhaps it would be better to say - excited? What really frightens me is these heartless people who  pretend to fight for the interests of their nation but in fact nothing but cold-blood politicians and their brain-washed servants. 

MicroMike ... I found Mr. Kurtzman's Acknowledge the Armenian Genocide Petition he had started Aug of 2007.

(I hope the link works, it's my first time doing it! yeapy!)

Commentary: Preventing future genocides
By Howard L. Jaffe and Laura Boghosian
Mon Mar 31, 2008, 05:53 PM EDT

Lexington -

 

Lexington - We write this piece, a Jew (in fact, a rabbi) and an Armenian, to express our mutual disappointment in the failure of the Jewish community to take a more active, principled stand on recognition of the Armenian Genocide than has been taken to date.

Ironically, the term “genocide” was coined by a Jew, Raphael Lemkin, in response to the 1915-1923 Turkish massacres of Armenians. Lemkin, a jurist, was appalled that Turkish “criminals were guilty of genocide and were not punished.” This impunity later emboldened Adolph Hitler who proclaimed, “Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?”

 The word “genocide” has been applied not only to the Holocaust, but to massacres from Cambodia to Darfur. The call for similar recognition of the Armenian Genocide has come from many quarters, including the International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS). Over 20 countries, the Vatican, the European Parliament, and a United Nations sub-commission have officially affirmed the Armenian Genocide, as have 40 U.S. states including Massachusetts. Presidents since Woodrow Wilson have referenced the Armenian massacres, but only Ronald Reagan employed the term “genocide.” The House of Representatives has twice passed resolutions recognizing the Armenian Genocide as such, but the Senate has never done so, leaving America in the shameful position of not being on record on the right side of this issue.

 What is especially troubling is that while Jewish Holocaust scholars and some Jewish groups have recognized the Armenian Genocide, most Jewish bodies have not. And the one organization whose mission statement includes the words “to secure justice and fair treatment to all” — the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) — has steadfastly refused to issue a strong, unambiguous acknowledgement of the Armenian Genocide.

More disturbing, the ADL has joined others in lobbying against official U.S. affirmation in deference to Israel’s strategic alliance with Turkey, which threatens retaliation against countries recognizing the genocide.

The ADL’s position is simply not justifiable. Recently, three prominent Israeli genocide scholars condemned an Israeli ambassador’s comments supporting Turkish genocide denial by writing that Israel’s relationship with Turkey “does not require public displays of obsequiousness and participation in genocide denial.”

Even if Turkey’s threats are not mere saber rattling, as many believe, the consequences to Israel are not great enough to legitimize the ADL’s actions. By engaging in such realpolitik, the ADL forfeits its moral authority to speak on matters of conscience. Thus, the ADL must choose: it is impossible to function simultaneously as a human rights organization and as an advocate for any sovereign nation. Conflict is inevitable, as became apparent last fall when numerous Boston-area communities, including Lexington, voted to sever ties with the ADL due to its unacceptable stance.

 Although the ADL’s New England region and its former director, Andrew Tarsy, attempted to alter portions of the national organization’s policy on the Armenian Genocide, they were unsuccessful in effecting meaningful change. Sadly, the New England chairman later said he was “comfortable” with national ADL’s position.

Yet last year’s events have awakened some in the Jewish community to the continuing injustice done the Armenians. We are hopeful that the efforts of those attempting to alter the policies of the ADL and other national Jewish organizations from within will succeed and that more will join in working to promote Congressional legislation officially acknowledging the Armenian Genocide. Through such joint activism, change will occur.

 Why is this important? Because by neglecting to acknowledge all genocides and by failing to condemn decisively genocide denial, individuals, organizations, and governments do immeasurable harm — not only to the victims and their descendants, but to future generations whom they put at risk.

Genocide scholar Israel Charny brands denial a renewed attack on the victim group that mocks its suffering and celebrates the success of the genocide. Current IAGS President Gregory Stanton warns that genocide denial “is among the surest indicators of further genocidal massacres.”

As the field of genocide studies has grown in recent years, the nexus of the Jewish and Armenian experiences has become ever more apparent, leading to conferences, papers and books that explore the inextricably interwoven threads of these two dark chapters of the 20th century. However, few remembrances of one community have been shared with the other.

As part of the Friday, May 2 Sabbath service of Temple Isaiah at which the congregation will commemorate Yom HaShoah, Holocaust Memorial Day, one of the country’s foremost scholars of the Armenian Genocide will speak to the interrelationship between these two experiences. Temple Isaiah warmly invites its friends in the community to attend this 8 p.m. service and address by Dr. Richard Hovannisian of UCLA.

May this be a small step forward in bringing our two communities even closer together in our mutual efforts to acknowledge past genocides and to prevent this most horrendous crime against humanity from occurring ever again.

Howard L. Jaffe is rabbi at Temple Isaiah. Laura Boghosian is a resident of Russell Road.

Based on Mr. Foxman's reasoning, the world therefore, should have regarded the events of 1933-1945, between Germany and/in the Nazi Empire and the Jewish people as a massacre, as a terrible tragedy, and an issue, that, should have been resolved between the German people and the Jewish people.

The Jewish people have cried out to the wold for recognition; repeatedly. Mr. Foxman does not address the misfortune of the Armenian people with the same degree of zeal.

Whether its a holocaust, genocide, or massacre, do any of these terms distinguish a different result? All innocent lives are sacred and precious, including the Armenians. The refusal to use a specific term describing the horror that befell our people, consciously, and selectively serves, as a diminution.

Perhaps Mr. Foxman counts numbers of people massacred? Although the genocide of the Armenian people, was not on so grand a scale as to that of what befell the Jewish people, it was nonetheless, equal in horror of man's inhumanity, to his fellow man. The Armenian people weren't given train rides to their doom, they were forced to march to it.

Mr. Foxman, it is the act, not the numbers, but more importantly, as protocol may dictate, what befell the Armenian people at the hands of the Turks, predates what befell the Jewish people, at the hands of the Germans. Shame on you Mr. Foxman, for mincing with words about such a horrible event.

Even today, some in the world deny what befell the Jewish people, and the Jewish people have persisted, so that the horror should never be forgotten. So too do we Armenians persist, Mr. Foxman.

Sarkis Khanzadian

I don't know how any person can support the ADL.:-(

Chillingly, Adolf Hitler used the Ottoman Turks' genocide of 1.5 million Armenian Christians to justify the Nazi
murder of six million Jews, saying in 1939: "Who, after all, speaks
today of the annihilation of the Armenians?"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=479143&in_page_id=1811

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/saddam_en.html

http://forthefreedomofiran.blogspot.com/2006/04/roots-and-history-of-islamofascism.html 

The role that Amin Al Husseini, Palestinian Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, played in influencing Yasser Arafat, Saddam Hussein, and the genocidal deaths of Armenians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and Kurds, are indeed telling!!! See http://www.tellchildrenthetruth.com/