Reform Woman Decries Big Aish Deception

Hopefully this weekend I'll get some time to elaborate on my positive decade-long personal experience with Aish.  Regarding the Reform Jewish woman who feels "deceived"-- A $200. trip to NY?  You get what you pay for.  Perhaps a few nights in a NY Youth Hostel would have been more to her liking.

As far as Aish being deceptive goes-- if I'm being "manipulated" by them with niceness, clear values, spirituality, humor & fun, then I'm their #1 volunteer!  I've found many of their rabbis to be very down-to-earth people.  Hopefully this doesn't sound too Pollyannaish, but only they were able to reveal to this serious-minded skeptic a meaningfulness to life that nobody else could.  They provide so many great & free services, and never ask for $, which only makes me want to be extra generous with them.  In more than ten years, I've never felt any pressure from them on any level.  I've worn slacks to Shabbat services.  I've shaken hands with some of their guest Chabad rabbis, who have reciprocated the handshake with me knowing that their commandment not to touch a woman (who's not your wife) should not take precidence over not humiliating someone.  (BTW, I didn't attempt a handshake on purpose just to try to trip him up.  It was just an automatic reaction on my part.)

Very soon I think I will write a blog in Jewcy for what I consider to be a very real modern cult that is tempting many educated Jews called "Landmark".  The key componant distinguishing cults from fringe religions is mind-control/free-will, not simply clever marketing.  

Brookelynn wrote, 

Hopefully this doesn't sound too Pollyannaish, but only they were able to reveal to this serious-minded skeptic a meaningfulness to life that nobody else could.

They "revealed" this "meaning" in 48 ways, correct?

 In more than ten years, I've never felt any pressure from them on any level.

Oh, the lady doth protest too much. For the record, we were talking about deception, which is something we can prove, even if ten-year loyalists of Big Aish don't "feel" that deception, it can be objectively demonstrated -- such as the fact that Aish assiduously hides that it is a ORTHODOX Kiruv organization, and apparently, even lies about it.

I've worn slacks to Shabbat services.

Pshhhhh...you did that, and they didn't stone you or even threaten you when their mission is to "open doors" gradually to Jewish from "diverse" backgrounds? Why are we supposed to be impressed by that? And do you wear slacks to service now? How many years ago did you stop wearing slacks to Aish's services? And why did you stop?

 I've shaken hands with some of their guest Chabad rabbis, who have reciprocated the handshake with me knowing that their commandment not to touch a woman (who's not your wife) should not take precidence over not humiliating someone. 

There is no such "commandment." Who told you that it is a "commandment"?

I'm their #1 volunteer! 

You most certainly are.

 Very soon I think I will write a blog in Jewcy for what I consider to be a very real modern cult that is tempting many educated Jews called "Landmark".

Did you attend that one before or during your experience with Aish?

So David, it sounds to me like your biggest hang-up with Aish is the advertising methods they use to entice you to give them a try? 

That's marketing.  Let me help you out here.  When you get an invitation from your neighbor for a Silpada party featuring some of your favorite bangles, before you put on your boogie shoes to strut over to finally meet Belinda Carlisle or Susanna Hoffs, let me warn you:  It's not a party, it's a sales-pitch for some overpriced silver jewelry.

Incidentally, what specific religious denomination have you committed yourself to?  And besides intensely disliking Orthodox who don't wear signs stating, "I'm Orthodox!", what exactly is it that you do stand behind (besides your I Love the 80's gold lame sweat jacket)?

Regarding your last question about "Landmark" 'seminars'-- I've never attended.  One of my co-workers has recently, & she is in deep.  She told me there are a lot of DC Jewish folks attending these "classes".

So David, it sounds to me like your biggest hang-up with Aish is the advertising methods they use to entice you to give them a try?

 No -- their dishonesty hardly stops when they succeed in getting someone to walk in their door. That's when the real nonsense begins. But you can read my litany of complaints against Aish if interested.

That's marketing.

No. That's bait and switch. If they were selling gadgets, their BBB rating would be appaling.

what exactly is it that you do stand behind

 This is about me? You really can't think of an acceptable moral and spiritual code outside of Big Aish's? Wow, you really are in deep.

When asking what you have committed yourself to/what you stand behind, I wanted to make the point that no one organized religion is going to be perfect.  There are things not to like about each one of them.  We can't let that paralyze us.  We need to get involved in something, and then choose to address specific issues to affect some change. 

Being Jewish & married to a Christian, I am way more comfortable with Aish than the Conservative synagogue to which I belong.  Aish members are more open-minded and polite than members of my shul, though my synagogue is more halachically liberal, which is more in keeping with my desired level of observance.  We can't allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good.

I've had some experience with Aish.  The never pretended to be anything they weren't.  Yes, they were quite interested in convincing people to be more observant, but they are, after all, a kiruv organization.  Frankly, if you didn't realize that they were interested in pushing Judaism, I suspect you just weren't paying attention.

To be quite frank, Mr. Kelsey, you are getting tiring. I don't think there's anybody who regularly reads the J blogs that doesn't know  you have problems with outreach groups and their yeshivas.

The fact that you put in some time at one doesn't make you as informed as you think you are, as countless others have proven. 

At one point you were even going to write a book with the owner of the Failed Mesiah"  blog that was to be the ultimate "expose" <VERY WIDE GRIN> of the kiruv world. Looks like nobody wanted it.

At this point it's getting silly. One wonders why the good folks at Jewcy bother to run -- or, at the very least, highlight -- your rants.

You can say a lot of things about Aish. In the kiruv world as well as the "ultra" world you accuse them of representing, they are considered "Judaism lite". 

The goal of these trips you are "exposing" is not to get the participants to don black hats, grow unkempt beards and the like. It's to stoke a spark and encourage increased commitment to Jewry and Judaism. They combine fun and identity building.

There's no subterfuge. 

And there's nothing wrong with that.

Jews, if I may be a wee bit biased, tend to have above average intellengence. We just about created chutzpah and we tend to be a "stiff necked people" after all these years. A participant in any of these porograms can question and leave if the experience isn't to his liking.

There's no conspiracy, David. Take off the tin foil kipah. 

You surely must have other things to kvetch about. 

Fact Checker wrote,

 One wonders why the good folks at Jewcy bother to run -- or, at the very least, highlight -- your rants.

Yeah...don't you miss the 90s, when no one stood in the way of Big Kiruv or revealed their tricks?

The goal of these trips you are "exposing" is not to get the participants to don black hats, grow unkempt beards and the like. It's to stoke a spark and encourage increased commitment to Jewry and Judaism.

It is to get as much as they can out of any specific candidate that they can. If that's a little, they'll start with that. If it's a lot, they'll take that too.

They combine fun and identity building.

No one is saying having a fundamentalist Kiruvnik slinging "proofs" of the Truth and the superioirity of ultra-Orthodox Judaism (to everything else) at you  isn't "fun," -- I'm sure it's a blast for plenty of people. What is problematic is that people are finding what fun is in store for them AFTER they are on these trips -- not before. In other words, it isn't what people are signing up for. 

 There's no conspiracy, David.

No. There is an AGENDA. And it is achieved through deceptive tactics.

And as usual, some would complain about when others (Jews for Jesus, Scientologists, etc.) do it, is FINE when it is being done by Orthodox Jews do it. Actually, it's still a problem, and deserves to be exposed and condemned. 

Morganfrost wrote, 

They never pretended to be anything they weren't. 

Online, Aish--and its subsidiaries--consistently pretend to be far more ecumenical than they are. For instance, Aish is in no way non-demoninational. They are not just Orthodox, they are ultra-Orthodox (LWUO). But even the term "Orthodox" is avoided in their self-decription. 

There's no subterfuge. 

Actually, there's no shortage of it. Even to the point that Aish NY hired PR flacks well-known for shilling for their clients through sock puppets on the Internet. I was shocked, (shocked!) to find out that Aish employed a firm willing to resort to such deplorable and dishonest tactics.

* "Big Kiruv", "tricks"? Gimme a break!  An organization or group whose mandate is to reinforce Jewish identity through increased Jewish learning and observance is doing something wrong by mixing it up with fun -- trips, the meeting of impressive people, etc? 

Yeah, here's an idea for an ad geared to college-aged kids: "You've spent a year infront of textbooks in college. Now do the same again in blistering hot New Yawk City for $200. Not that we will give you $200, but you must give us...." 

* An organization or group whose mandate is to reinforce Jewish identity and does so by going back to the basics is compared to Jews for Jesus? 

* A program participant is forced to stay against his will? 

* A PR firm is rendered non-kosher and off-limits permanently because of  a tactic they used in something unrelated? 

* I personally, as expressed above, am no fan of Aish's "touchy feely" Judaism lite. But to say that that their site is not  ecumenical is ridiculous. Have they ever published articles attacking Conservative or Reform Judaism? Do theyhave the cojones to belittle ANYBODY?

It's obvious you are allowing your emotion to cloud your intellect.  

Somebody or something happened to you. Let me guess: a kiruv rabbi(s) ruined your life. You are writing this drek in order to prevent the world from making the same mistakes you did, right?

Am I allowed to call you pathetic without being censored? 

When I was studying in Israel, several of my friends on their year off got sucked into what was unambiguously a cultish experience through or sameyach or aish hatora. every year there would be some one or several who cut off ties completely with their parents and to went live on settlements and start religious families in very short order. Not everyone, of course, walks away from a shabbas dinner organized by jeff siedel and into the arms of frum community in Efrat, but enough do to raise the cult alarm bells.

While I appreciate that you had a crappy experience with Aish Hatorah, that time in Israel made me wary of all the AIsh hatoras and Landmark Forums and meditation retreats and while I ddifferentiate between these yeshivot and movements, I suspect there is no such thing is this world as "spiritual movement" that allows for low-key opportunities to experience personal growth. They all involve others asserting/exerting their will on you.

I'm confused by the juxtaposition of Aish/Ohr Somayach and Efrat. 

When I visited Efrat, I was confronted with such things as:
--- A friend of mine - completely integrated into the local Orthodox community, and a member in good standing - who did not cover her hair, learned from Ms. Rahel Berkovits (a granddaughter of Rabbi Dr. Eliezer Berkovits at Pardes) and had a bookshelf full of classic English literature;
--- A rabbi who constantly cited Rabbi Joseph Soloveitchik
--- A city-wide celebration for the marriage of two converts, in which the entire populace of the entire city of Efrat participated, with Rabbi Shlomo Riskin presiding. See http://shimshonit.wordpress.com/2009/05/28/mazal-tov/

 To associate all this with those of the Aish/Ohr Somayach bent is rather peculiar.