The Non-Date Date

Oh, the non-date date. The bane of my existence.

I've had the ambiguous Starbucks excursions, the occasional lunch get-togethers, and random adventures including miniature golf, bowling, bakery runs, and shopping trips. But, by far, I would have to say the worst kind of non-date date is the dinner and a movie/play for a romantic evening in the city where you still don't know where you stand... 18 months later.

 *sigh* I'm so glad I'm not alone.

 Signed,

The Queen of the Non-Date Dates 

So, I was temporarily on break in America for a month, away from my Israeli yeshivah.

While on Facebook, I happened across a group devoted to discussing Rambam-ist rationalism, against superstition. This one girl was asking a question about Kabbalah, and wouldn't you know, she was wondering the EXACT same things I had some months ago! So of course, I replied with absolutely everything I knew, from all the research I had done on the very same issue. As the conversation progressed, I could tell by what she said back that she had a darn good head on her shoulders.

So of course a private individual messaging conversation began. I said to her that we ought to meet up when I returned to Israel in a few weeks, and she consented. Of course, I didn't say in what capacity we ought to meet...I just knew that in some fashion or another, I had to meet this girl.

So I get back to Israel, and we meet up at a restaurant. I wasn't sure what capacity we were meeting in, but I thought better than to open up my mouth and reveal my idiocy.

Anyway, we meet up again, and I'm still not sure what the capacity is. Then, we meet a third time, and this time, she's brought friends with her. 

As far as I figured it, that sealed it: if she's brought friends, she sees me as another friend. Fine, that's all well - I can always use more friends; not every relationship with the opposite sex has to be a romantic one. 

Problem is, I had been, and still was, acting as if I were interested in her, because I WAS!! Another friend of mine told me that probably, if she wasn't interested in me, but I was visibly interested in her, it probably made her uncomfortable, and she was probably trying to subtly hint to me that she wasn't interested.

Finally, then, I got the gumption to apologize to her if I had been making her uncomfortable for acting like I was interested in her.

WRONG MOVE!!!!

She exclaimed (paraphrase), "What did you think we were doing??!! Sure, the first meeting we had was *not* a date [and she said I was stupid for not clarifying in what capacity we were meeting that first time], but what was the second time, if not a date??!! As for the third time, I [she] was bringing the friends to get a third-party decision on your character!" She broke down and started crying, and exclaimed that if I wasn't sure whether we had been dating or not, I should have asked.

So that's the story of the first person I ever dated, some eight months ago.

Believe it or not, she forgave me. But as can be understood, I made a few more dating gaffes as we preceded, owing to my ignorance of women, so she told me to work on myself for a few years, and we can pick things up from there if we're available then. (She also went back to America anyway, while I'm still in Israel.)

I'll admit that I'm a huge fan of the Non-Date "Date".  In fact, went on one with MiaRut close to a year ago.

It's asking the person out without knowing enough to call it a date.  Basically there is mutual attraction, and not much beyond that.  You've had 5 minutes to chat, but it's not enought time to know if you want to spend money on a date, so you ask for coffee or a quick drink.  You also pick a place that is middle ground distance, this way each isn't travelling too much.  Or if you do go out for dinner and it's a nogo, you feel fine letting the girl pay half. And she is fine knowing it wasn't a date.  All are happy.

As MiaRut can attest, I've already coined the term, so if you use it, say got it from the Jumpin Jew. 

I think I remember JumpinJew telling me that I had to do an Orthodox conversion to make it easier - for him!  Needless to say I just make an excellent “wing man” for him (we’re still on for tomorrow Tikvat Yisrael, right?)

I have to say I’m loving mikewinddale’s recent comments on my posts.  I don’t necessarily agree with all of it, but I like them none-the-less.  Maybe Jewcy can help you find a date too.

And to the Queen of the Non-Date Dates, after 18 months it sounds like the two of you are just friends.  But not to fear – as they say there are other fish in the sea. 

Also check me out on the Jew and the Carrot

Have hope.  I married eleven years ago a "non-date".  We are as happy today and more in like/love than we were them.

Thanks! I'd like to hope that even if I don't convince anyone, I at least won't make any enemies.

I remember walking in Meah Shearim (Haredi community in Jerusalem), and there was a woman near me dressed a tad too immodestly. (Really, her clothing wasn't too bad; in most any place on earth, she'd be considered quite normal. But when you're walking in an Ultra-Orthodox community with "Guard the modesty!" plastered everywhere, really, you should have more discretion.)

So a man comes up to her and starts shrieking and yelling and hollering. I mean, really, he looked as if he were about to blow his gasket!

I recall looking at him with pity and consternation and at her with sympathy. Even if this woman were the one in the wrong, yelling at her isn't going to win her over. If I had been the one to approach her, I'd have said something like, "Excuse me ma'am. I hope I do not offend you, but in this community, we are especially particular on the modesty of the clothing worn. You'll see the signs posted around to this effect, and next time you're in the area, please try to accomodate the mores of this locale. I mean no disrespect, but we are sensitive regarding our own habits and customs. Thank you, and have a good day." Isn't that much more likely to earn a positive response from her?

(I remember one of my rabbis discussing those who throw rocks on
Shabbat. He said, "Yes, you can throw rocks at the Shabbat violators.
But [due to technical reasons of Jewish law] you have to specially
designate which rocks are your Shabbat rocks, and carry them out to the
road, and aim them...oy! Isn't it so much easier to say, 'Excuse me
sir, but would you please join me for a Shabbos meal?'")

Yes, there's a mitzvah to speak the truth and stand up for what's right. But is there a mitzvah to offend others when there's no need? (I say when there's no need because, after all, there is a time and place for everything. When someone comes to steal or murder, I'm not so concerned with being tolerant.)

Invest with Madoff. He will give you better returns that on a non-date date. I also recommend Ezra Merkin

Well congrats to you! Am happy for you. :)