Most Wanted: The Big, Bad Butchers and Bullies of Agriprocessors

This is a real contribution to the topic. Thanks for compiling this!

Shmarya

You wrote:

"if there is a nefarious purpose to IATL, it is to raise money for Chabad from wealthy lawyers, not to convert the non-Jewish whiteshoe legal masses to Schneersonism, although Chabad would take that result if it could get it."

I don't think Chabad seeks to convert non Jews. Or, did you just mean that they would gladly take money from the whiteshoes? 

Also, why the reference to Rubauskun's political contributions to republicans (other than Patty Judge) Those aren't illegal or even immoral. And why mention Arlen Spector in particular? At least he is a mensch.

Meat is Murder!

These incidences are quite the eye opener!!

Realizing that WE NEED MOSHIACH NOW!!!

And that we were never meant to eat meat anyway

This deffinitly was the "WAKE UP CALL"

for me it was!

Meat is murder anyway you look at it

its killing. When Moshiach comes there will be no more of this

going on in all of the earth! Issiah 11 "the wolf will reside with the lamb"

Issiah 12 "they shall learn war no more" no more killing just Peace!

Peace 

why the reference to Rubauskun's political contributions to republicans ?

I don't know, maybe because Republican have done unusual things like suppressing a government report critical of Agriprocessors, charging Rubashkins with relatively minor crimes when major crimes seem to have been committed, and allow Rubashkins to walk free when they should be in jail. And the Republican that signed off on the last two on this list previously worked for and is very close to Arlen Specter. 

PETA doesn't want to end shcheita, really? Don't they want to do away with all human use of animals including shcheita? So, whoops, Mr. Lewin is right on that one. If you the writer can't get that simple and obvious fact right, well, how can we buy into the rest of the article?

Did Nat Lewin, a defender of Jewish civil rights for decades, compared PETA to Nazis? Well, boo friggin' hoo. Maybe he learned how to throw around the N-word from PETA. After all, PETA's slogan "a Holocaust on your plate," compares killing of animals for food to genocidal extermination of whole swaths of humanity for the Aryan way. But, hey, the life of a chicken has just the same value as Albert Schweitzer, right? Remember, these folks would forbid animal testing of drugs even if it would save human life. A boy loves his dog.

As usual, Jews are the canary in the coal mine, letting the world know who's really on the Vicious Wacko list. Anti-Semites have traditionally gone after ritual slaughter. Perhaps it's unfair to Anti-Semites to compare them to PETA, since PETA hates all of humanity, their protests to the contrary notwithstanding.

Have a good Shabbos.

PETA clearly wants to end all animal slaughter and is up front about that.

PETA also recognizes this will not happen for decades, if ever, so they work to minimize the pain and suffering of these animals before and during slaughter. 

PETA has received strong and copious criticism from other vegan groups because of this stand.

Further, PETA has publicly stated many times that shechita done properly is as humane as slaughter gets.

If you took some time and looked at the actual facts – rather than talk radio and haredi shul spin – you'd see that PETA invested a lot of time and effort trying to get Agriprocessors to clean up its problems.

 When that failed, PETA sent in undercover investigators who  documented Agriprocessors' violations of the Humane Slaughter Act on video. That video led to a USDA investigation, which found Agriprocessors had indeed violated Humane Slaughter Law.

The issue here is not PETA's agenda. The issue is what kosher slaughter should be.

Orthodox Jews like yourself argue kosher slaughter should be anything you make of it – humane by scientific standards or inhumane.

You argue you have the right to use a meat hook to rip out the throats of fully conscious cattle.

But you are wrong.

You may have rabbis who allow this barbaric cruelty, but this barbaric cruelty is not the shechita the US Government gave a religious exemption.

 As for Holocaust on Your Plate, it was ill-conceived and foolish – but it was based on Isaac Bashevis Singer's words, not on Nazi propaganda.

So come to grips with reality: Agriprocessors employed child labor, abused animals, extorted workers, had perhaps the most unsafe meat plant in the business, and knowingly violated immigration and identity theft law.

If these actions are kosher in your world then I – and many others – want nothing to do with it. 

Why is over-extending the concept of Kashrut the best way to challenge very ortho Jews about Agriprocessors' abuses?

We shouldn't have to be putting the product in our mouth to recognize that inhumane means of production (to animals AND people) are reason enough NOT to purchase it. We are bitch slapping the ultra-orthodox when we challenge their commitment to halacha: they are committed. That they ignore issues of social justice despite this commitment--isn't that what we should really be talking about?

"…We are bitch slapping the ultra-orthodox when we challenge their commitment to halacha: they are committed. That they ignore issues of social justice despite this commitment--isn't that what we should really be talking about?…"

Those  "issues of social justice " are also halakha (Jewish law). What the ultra-Orthodox Jews are doing (along, I should add, with a good portion of Modern Orthodox Jews, as well) is choosing to be machmir (extra careful) about kosher halakhas and at the same time ignoring halakhas of social justice.

In other words, they are picking and choosing what they will observe, and the halakhas they pick to observe are between man and God. The halakhas they ignore are between man and man.

Worse yet, some of these man and man  halakhas are of biblical origin while most of the kosher halakhot are rabbinic. 

No one is "over-extending" the concept of kashrut. All people want is for specifically Jewish consumer goods like kosher meat, kosher cheese, kosher wine, shabbat candles, tefillin, etc., to be produced taking all  of Jewish law into account – including the laws that protect workers.

Shmarya,

Great work.  Needless to say, I follow this on your blog, but this is a good summary for those I'm trying to sway from buying this meat.

Be well,

Brian

"Those  "issues of social justice " are also halakha (Jewish law). What the ultra-Orthodox Jews are doing (along, I should add, with a good portion of Modern Orthodox Jews, as well) is choosing to be machmir (extra careful) about kosher halakhas and at the same time ignoring halakhas of social justice.

In other words, they are picking and choosing what they will observe, and the halakhas they pick to observe are between man and God. The halakhas they ignore are between man and man"

Great point. There must be some Mussar texts that support your view and that are regularly "learned" by these same people.

On the other hand, setting aside the laws or man and man, is the Agriprocessors method of killing animals consisten with the rules of kashrut? I confess my ignorance, but even looking at just the laws of man and God, aren't there limits on how the killing can be done?

"And the Republican that signed off on the last two on this list previously worked for and is very close to Arlen Specter"

Have you written on this aspect of the matter elsewhere? Can you provide a link or further information? I am not familiar with these facts.

"All people want is for specifically Jewish consumer goods like kosher
meat, kosher cheese, kosher wine, shabbat candles, tefillin, etc., to
be produced taking all of Jewish law into account – including the laws
that protect workers."

Should there be something less Jewish about why I purchased the strawberries that I eat and the table on which I eat them--essentially, are we allowed to narrow the scope of these issues so much? And is spending our social energy to ensure humane practices in the creation of Jewish products the best way of reforming these industries?

Stop with all the sarcasm. I think it deminishes the memory of the 6 million people murdered by the Nazi's to compare in any way PETA with the Nazis. The fact is animals die every day so we can eat. Maybe you are ok with that, maybe your not. I personally eat meat, but do not see it as an ideal. PETA may in your opinion go overboard.. but for any Jew to compare them to the Nazi's is beyond rediculous. Mr. lewin should come face to face with a real Nazi, a blood thirsty, murdering, beast, and he'll understand what the term really means.

The fact is PETA is not antisemetic. They are anti-cruelty and foro Jews who were given the law of Tsar Balei Chai (prohibition to be cruel, torment or torture animals)  to dismiss the concern simply shows that the Jewish community today is not serious about Jewish law.

I am sick and tired of politicians and religious individuals throwing terms around to excite passions and anger. PETA represents a cause that should be represented. Sometimes, we as a people should do as they say, sometimes maybe we should not, but we should always listen as the intentions are good. But to use the term Nazi's with regard to PETA is absurd and a sin even is they dare to use the word Holocaust in association with killing animals. I think the work the Rubashkin family would find acceptable, "Butchers", is good enough for me ! 

I have read that both Rabbi Ovadia Yosef and Rabbi Moshe Feinstein had banned  foie gras due to cruelty to anumals, so clearly Kashrut is not limited to the type of blade used and other techncial details

Chabad does not seek to convert non Jews to Judaism as such, but it has promoted the Noahide laws, a minimalist version of Jewish law applicable to non Jews. More on it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noahide_Campaign

Predictably, antisemites have detected sinister overtones in this. Of course--as this article demonstrates--Chabad embraces some pretty sinister practices and personalities, but these laws seem mostly beneficial, or at least harmless. At worst, the Noahide campaign seems a bit naive, its proponents seemingly unaware that religions and belief systems other than Judaism have their own law codes and ethics that adherents may regard as valid. But they wouldn't be the first religionists to forget that other people may have different points of view, would they?

Chabad is full of Converts who have money to support them if you ever worked on the inside you would know. 

Shmarya 

You were right she is a "crook" unjust and unfair advocate garbage. Some articles she did get removed even when she knows the victim came close to death and half her guts cut out.

Then the Rabbi T. case with out proof of a sex crime and that woman did not come close to death we spoke about all the articles stay.

Chabad has power over advocates even when the victim comes close to death!

"I have read that both Rabbi Ovadia Yosef and Rabbi Moshe Feinstein had banned  foie gras due to cruelty to anumals..."

Delighted to learn that Ovadia Yosef has bravely come to the defense of the helpless goose. Perhaps if the residents of New Orleans had been barnyard fowls instead of human beings, they might have earned his compassion. Instead, as you'll recall, he attributed their travails at the hands of nature and an uncaring government to inadequate Torah study on their part.

In another magnanimous moment, Yosef compared Jerusalem's Palestinians to ants and hoped that they would soon go to hell, a journey he suggested Moshiach would facilitate. In another context, he urged that these same hapless Arabs be "shown no mercy and annihilated".

I myself am no halachic sage, so perhaps someone else can explain to me how this learned man expresses his wisdom or holiness in showing greater empathy for poultry than for Palestinians? 

explain to me how this learned man expresses his wisdom or holiness in showing greater empathy for poultry than for Palestinians? ... interesting point

Does Shmarya show greater empathy for cattle than the victims of the Park Hotel bombing? We are still waiting for an answer to that

Dem kosher chickens have come home to roost

Nope. We know for a fact what Yosef's prescriptions for Arabs are, so we may compare these disgusting opinions to his concern for tasty birds. Shmarya has not remarked on the Park Hotel victims, although he has given no rational person reason to think anything other than that he shares the average person's horror at these deaths.

He simply won't fall into your silly rhetorical demand that he prove the same bona fides that no one but a deranged ideologue would question in the first place. 

Read and think a little more, then talk. 

Shmarya has not remarked on the Park Hotel victims, although he has given no rational person reason to think anything other than that he shares the average person's horror at these deaths... Since he is advocating unvetted Arab labor and has a great distaste for Judaism, then his failure to condemn the Park Hotel bombing is open to a variety of interpretations

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