Michael Medved Owns The Holocaust

Medved's remarks are perfectly within reason and Jewcy's protest against sanity comes up queer yet again.

Projections are so familiar and yes, it is very apt to regale against people seeking to fight over the Holocaust as if it is a trophy.  So it would be good if all American Jews would join Jews from around the world to protest a call to memorialize homosexuals next to Jewish victims of the Holocaust, since no one should rightly distort the aimed destruction of the Jewish people as an event that was simply aimed at destroying a variety of people.  Jewcy clearly indicates that they wish that the Holocaust was not a crime perpetrated against the Jewish people but one in which there is a gold medal, silver medal and bronze medal.  If the gays are not, darn-it, worth a silver medal---it is the Jews who need to shut up and that bad-mouthed Michael Medved should be first in line--  is an interpretation of the feeling.

Wrong.  This is not a big debate since *even* a plurality of leftists can agree on this one. Except the Jewcy editorial board since it seems they identify MORE with the homosexual than with the Jew.

Every time this man opens his mouth, it's a national and cultural embarrassment. He belongs to a small cadre of Jews - the others being Klinghoffer, Lappin, Ben Stein and Berlinski - who either work for or hang out with evangelical Christians. One can only wonder about their motives (I think they enjoy being the evangelicals' "house Jews" - lots of perks and attention - but that's mere speculation). In any case, we should by no means be giving any of them the attention they seem to crave so desperately.

There are quite a few Jews that are not only politically conservative, but we are friendly with Christians. I agree with David on this one.

And I take it your agreement with David extends to condoning his anti-gay "comes up queer yet again" remark. 

It is undisputed fact that the nazis targeted homosexuals as a distinct group. While Jews were a primary target of the nazi regime, the gypsies and those with disabilities were also sought after for extermination. Meved sounds like he is trying to rewrite history or he does not know what he is talking about. If Medved hates gays then that is his right but he has no right to rewrite history. In fact, if Medved and the other posters should be careful if they go to Germany as denying parts of the holocaust is illegal. This was an accurate article like it or not.

If we cannot keep straight in our collective memories what the Holocaust is about, we debase history.

If we extend this road just a bit, it is clear that Christians were brutalized by the Nazi regime.  How would the Left respond if the Nazis sought to give some monument to Christian victims of the Holocaust?  Surely gypsies and the mentally ill were also targeted--monuments for them as well?

The issue here is that the Holocaust was about the planned extermination of one specific people.  The fact that Nazis killed others is another matter.  

For so many on the Left, it is wholly inadequate to understand the Holocaust as a planned extermination of the Jewish people.  They are not happy unless it can be extended and broadened to include generalized hate of one group of people against another.  This is why the Anne Frank plays are re-written to be universalized creeds in modern political correctness.  This is why the US Holocaust Museum feels that it is their mandate to include many other matters.  It is simply a bad trend and an inappropriate reflex.  

A nice touch from German antisemites. Murdering Jews first, slandering posthumously. Memorial for homosexuals near the Jewish one. Elie Wiesel and Primo Levi describe how privileged were homosexual convicts in their camp.

BTW, what do you think of the latest piece by Obadiah Shoher here http://samsonblinded.org/blog/doing-right-by-going-left.htm ? It seems to me that the ultra-right launched a massive outreach program for the left. Anyone heard of that? 

The point is that we should identify with the oppressed no matter who they are.  Didn't we just go over this at our yearly Pesach Seder.  We were slaves and now we're free, but we're really not totally free as long as there are enslaved and oppressed people in the world.  We cannot be moral people if we ignore the plight of others.  

That's what all of these Holocaust memorials are about.  They're not just for Jews.  They're not supposed to make Jews feel sad and self-righteous, while they make everyone else feel guilty.  They are supposed to awaken the compassion and moral outrage in all of us, Jew and Gentile alike.  We are all supposed to identify with the persecuted and understand our collective responsibility.

Let's just for the moment assume that none of the Jews killed in the Holocaust were homosexual, a ridiculous assumption.  Even so, a Jew hearing about the persecution of homosexuals ought to be able to put himself or herself in the homosexuals' shoes and and feel sorry for them.  Most Jews can do this, and I'm proud to say that Judaism on the whole is one of the religions most accepting of homosexuals.  Unfortunately, a few a backwards Jews like Medved have never grasped the meaning of Rabbi Hillel's saying, "If I am not for myself, who will be for me?  If I am only for myself, what am I?  And if not now, when?"

David N. Friedman:  "The issue here is that the Holocaust was about the planned extermination of one specific people.  The fact that Nazis killed others is another matter."

These sentences contradict one another. Either Jewish people were the only target - "one specific people" - or they were one target among many - "[t]he fact that Nazis killed others".

To the first sentence: You are incorrect. Many people were targetted. That is fact, as you write. But don't take my word (or your own) for it: 

http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/focus/homosexuals_02/

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?ModuleId=10005219

http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/focus/disabilities_02/

To the second: Exactly. That's why there's a new memorial to remember the "others."

Also worth noting, relative to your use of "others": In your mind there must be no overlap between the Venn diagram circles for Jewish and Gay? You may want to sit down.

What Justin said.  :)

Zach, I will parse my words for you.  As stated, The Holocaust was a specific event with a specific aim--the destruction of the Jewish people.  The Nazi regime had wider aims and additional hatred-- homosexuals, for example, were both elevated and persecuted.  The German war effort had wider aims and Nazis killed more Russian soldiers than anyone else.

It is my opinion that the post war Germans can consider their many sins anyway they wish.  If they feel it important to make a memorial to the Holocaust--fine.  If they build such a memorial it is best to not be offensive about it.  Including a display with two men kissing is offensive. The Holocaust, if it is to retain its meaning and its place in history, will remain a event involving the annihilation of the Jews.  One good way to kill its meaning is to broaden our memory of the event to everyone who suffered in the war.  Indeed, their lives are as precious as the lives of our people and they might have been victims of the war and the Nazi regime--they are not, however, rightly, victims of the Holocaust.

The fact that the US Holocaust Museum has put up displays about the homosexuals fails to prove any point since such a display is met with firm controversy. I know at least one notable benefactor who pulled his support when one such display was unveiled--please understand this man has nothing against homosexuals.

It is necessary that you understand that memorials can be sensitive sites for the victims.  This is why the site for the twin towers stirred big controversy when someone wished to universalize it.  The planned destruction of the Jews of Europe was a unique event and needs to be remembered for what it was about and not what it is was about.

I  will be pleased to throw you some red meat.  It seems apparent that this is the style of homosexual activism.  In discussing homosexual marriage--it is less a matter to be discussed on its merits and more to be dogmatically asserted with reference to civil rights.  Hence, the gay lobby is quick to cite interracial marriage as the template for gay marriage.  This provokes big animosity in the black community since they feel the civil rights movement personally and reject any such analogy on its face.  Prejudice against someone with dark skin is entirely different than prejudice against someone who commits specific sexual actions.  It is offensive on its face that gay activists wish to cloak their political goals in terms of human rights and make their cause related to blacks in the early 1960's and the Jews of the Holocaust.

Justin, I am fully aware that Jews are commanded to be sensitive to the stranger--if our community does a lot of things wrong--this is not one of them.  Perhaps the problem is that we are too easily willing to be so open minded our collective brains fall out.  A memorial is not there to make the Jews feel better--indeed, in Germany there is a very small Jewish population.  If the Germans wish to learn their lesson--it is surely lessened if it is broadened to include a simple willingness to put oneself in someone else's shoes.  Rather, it is about how a dictator can rise to power with a socialist program and a plan to exterminate the Jewish people that is at issue.  Your implied prescription teaches no lesson for the German  50-60 years after the event.  The sure way to kill the lesson is to broaden it so it has no meaning and no relation to the specific national sins of Nazi Germany.

As for your contention that Jews are accepting of homosexuals-- this is true.  By contrast, regarding Judaism--be clear about what your are speaking about.  We are told to be tolerant of the sinner but not the sin. Please ,Michael Medved is an exemplary Jew and requires no lectures of the type you delivered.  Further, casting homosexuals of today in the same light as the Jews of the Holocaust is ridiculous.  The style of the gay rights lobby to run after the victim mantel of Jews and blacks is rather pathetic and a good clue that there is no genuine victimhood.

http://www.rense.com/general17/bushhitler.htm "Lee says that the Republican Party's ethnic outreach division had an outspoken hatred of President Jimmy Carter's Office of Special Investigations (OSI), an organization dedicated to tracking down and prosecuting Nazi war collaborators who entered this country illegally. *Former Republican Pat Buchanan attacked Carter's OSI after it deported a few suspected Nazi war criminals." Note: This same Patrick Buchanan wrote an anti-semitic book CHURCHILL, HITLER AND THE UNNECESSARY WAR and not one of us protested it. http://patbuchananbooks.com/ http://www.realchange.org/buchanan.htm Buchanan also seems to relish Catholic vs. Jewish antagonism, one part of pre-Vatican II Catholicism that most Catholics don't miss. During the controversy over a proposed Carmelite convent at Auschwitz, Buchanan wrote some of his most frightening words: "If U.S. Jewry takes the clucking appeasement of the Catholic cardinalate as indicative of our submission, it is mistaken. When Cardinal O'Connor of New York seeks to soothe the always irate Elie Wiesel by reassuring him, 'there are many Catholics who are anti-Semitic...it's deep within them,' when he declares this 'is not a fight between Catholics and Jews,' he speaks for himself. Be not afraid, Your Eminence; just step aside, there are bishops and priests ready to assume role of defender of the faith." P.S. Shaun, you are showing your true colors on Hannity & Colmes/Hannity's America as anti-semitic/anti-black. Have you forgotten, Alan Colmes is Jewish? You insulted him/other Jews by inviting anti-semitic Patrick Buchanan to present his anti-semitic book CHURCHILL, HITLER AND THE UNNECESSARY WAR. And on Hannity's America, only the White doves sing. Realize, America is a country of multicultural, multireligions, multihues etc. . Why doves of other colors not singing?

A comment to David...

Prejudice is prejudice. It seems inevitable in our society, but that does not make it correct. There is no difference between prejudice regarding a person's skin color or her sexual actions. If it cannot be directly linked with harming another individual, it is not wrong.

Prejudice of any type harms other individuals because it denies those individuals the right of the pursuit of happiness. Prejudice is WRONG, always!

Should the Germans forget that they were responsible for the deaths of millions of Russians? No. The thousands of gypsies? No. Will they forget if there are no memorials? Yes!

I would be more troubled by the German memorial if it suggested that gays were the primary victims of the Holocaust or that Jews were not. From my travels to Germany, my impression is that almost all Holocaust releated exhibits/memorials/programs focus properly on the Jewish victims. Given that, what is the problem (from a Jewish perspective) with limited exhibits about others who suffered under the Nazis?

With regard to the differing treatment of various classes of victims, that is certainly an appropriate topic for a Holocaust Museum to explore.

On the other hand, I'm a sceptic when it comes to overcoming antisemitism. I am more concerned that Israel maintains an overwelming nuclear deteranece than what any Germans do (although I appreciate their help to Israel in establishing Israel's submarine force).

Yaakov, yes,  it would be more disturbing if the Germans thought that gays were more the target of the Holocaust than the Jews.  What a curious thought.

This is the point.  Seeing the history as it was is vital since we are so fond of re-writing it.  Yesterday, the world still saw the Holocaust as an attempt to kill the Jews of Europe. Today, the Holocaust was a historical event and the way to honor the event is to renounce prejudice against all people, remembering the gypsies and the gays and the Jews.  Tomorrow, it will be mostly about the homosexuals with the Jews getting second "billing."  Then we can all feel very disturbed about the state of affairs.

 Just for kicks--Please go ahead and try to tell those in the gay lobby who actively promote the death of Matthew Sheppard to promote their agenda to stop telling everyone that he was homosexual.  Tell them the point is to talk about prejudice.  They will ignore you and if you persist--they will be violent. The whole point is that he was homosexual and he was killed and they want they whole world to know and remember Matthew, the slain homosexual.  Almost no homosexual is killed because they are homosexual.    Nazis killed a lot of people but only the Jews because they were Jews and only a whole people as a matter of social policy.

The PC crowd needs the Nazi killing of gays to have meaning next to the planned extermination of the Jewish people.  They need to claim a silver medal on the victim award ladder because of what it means in favor of gay marriage and the normalization of the gay lifestyle. It may be true that two men kissing at a memorial  is offensive on its face but it would be equally offensive to elevate any other group of people in an attempt to diminish the Holocaust as an event. 

Again, don't have a Holocaust memorial if you don't want to but if you do, it is important to be sensitive to the victims.

Medved's comments were a short blog posting, not an editorial much less a book.

 Any reasonable person know Jews were the primary target of the Holocaust.  However, when speaking of the other five or six million victims political correctness has taken over discourse.  When you hear "others" mentioned, it now always hear gays as included in the list (which comprised a few thousand), but not several million Catholics.

So the issue is not just this memorial.  The issue is the misuse of some to manipulate the Holocaust to obtain victim status to some group but deny victim status to other groups.

I deplore the killing of only one gay person.  However

Anon  brings up the merit of victim status and it is very true that gay activism wants to glow in the light of historical and PRESENT DAY victim status.  Gays were victims, the reasoning goes, from the very same impulse the very same kind of hatred that made Jews victims of the Holocaust.

This is wrong headed.  The Jews were specific targets because antisemitism is a special hatred.  Nazis victimized others in the context of consolidating power and there are lessons for that as well.  The lesson of the Holocaust is one to understand only in light of the Jewish people and what we represent to forces of evil in the world.

Homosexuals require victim status because they are looking at present day politics.  Hence, this is why they describe marriage rights for gays as a human rights issue and when you discuss why it is wrong to give homosexual the rights of marriage--the response is that one denies their basic humanity.  This kind of rhetoric is damnable and the outcome is troublesome.

In the first instance, it is the leftist Jews who come to the defense of the homosexual as if "full equality" for gays is a prototypical JEWISH issue.  Note on this blog the number of gay-friendly topics and postings.  There might be something called Jewish pride but Jews run away from our mission and lack pride and this is why two out of three marry someone else.  We are ignorant of our traditions and we jump on the bandwagon for any kind of politically correct issue without thinking about it as long as it sounds liberal and comes from the Dem party.

In the second, gays have enviable pride. Since they are distinguished only by their sexual preference, the pride stems solely from their aberrant behavior--perhaps the lowest thing possible to be proud about.  They wrap themselves in some other persons real victim status--black people, Jews, etc. and this fawned upon minority with above average income wants to continually convince tolerant America that they are victimized and oppressed.  Now, let's see how and who oppresses gays?  It is the Bible--that book of long-passed Jewish pride.

Given the choice, the leftist Jews are quick to dump our treasure and promote gay victim status and bash the conservative Christians who only feel the way they do because the Jews brought the Bible to humanity.

Tragic.