Light from the Postville Darkness

instead of issuing pusillanimous declarations of principles, shouldn't we be organizing and actually trying to force real change on this issue.

this is not something that exists so we can feel better about ourselves, because we have "proper jewish values."  this is an unholy injustice and it's up to YOU, important jewish religious organizations, to get it together and make real change happen.

do it. 

I never thought about why, when there are hundreds of meatpacking plants across the Midwest, the Feds picked the big Jewish one. They could run the same sting every day and not run out of meatpacking plants anytime soon.  I applaud the good Rabbi's exhortation, but as I understand it, "kosher" means none of the things he's outlined, and doubt there's a new edition of the Shukhan Aruch in the works, however the Rabbi orders his own table.  I don't really believe the Jews are up to the challenge.  

Did the packing plant at Postville ever run even one day legally?  But it was kosher.  

If the Jews are less than three percent of the American population, what percentage of those are nice frum Yidden?  The rest of America thinks the poor, impoverished, oppressed workers snuck in illegally, and because they had to have Social Security numbers, are guilty of "identity theft," which we know is running up lavish lifestyles on strangers' credit cards.  

Personally, I think the criminals win when they get the rest of us to say "identity theft" when they mean "faking Social Security numbers."  Like "undocumented workers" swapped for "illegals," but I also think the criminals win anyway because making a federal case out of hiring is too hard to do the paperwork, and not as photogenic as having "illegals" all lined up jabbering in Spanish.  

I love that the Rabbi puts his call to action into the context of a long history of Jewish social justice and workers' rights.  Would anyone lift a finger if it didn't fit Jewish history just so?  

Dear chevra,

Slicing an animal so that --  instead of dropping dead with one cut from a super-sharp knife severing the carotid artery and pouring blood out, cutting off brain functioin practically at once --  it staggers around in gteat pain with its trachea hanging out VIOLATES KASHRUT, is a violation of shechita. That's what  PETA's films showed. The other infractions violate other passages of Torah -- do not exploit workers, for example, love the furriner because you were furriners -- but do not make the meat treyf in and of themselves..

So that aprt is up to ius.  In the ealry '70s, the asocated rabbus of massachuisetts -- al flavors -- joined in forbidding the use of non-uon grapes by synagogues because the owners violated "oshek" -- prohibition on oppression of labor. They din't claim the gtrapes were treyf -=- they just said, DON"T.

As for deepening Torah -- you think Shulchan Aruch came down from Sinai to Moses? No, it was the compendium as of when Karo wrote in S'fad in the 1500s, and it had =to have marginal notes by the Ashenkazic community who did it different.  

Beyond "pronouncements" -- The Shalom Center has for 15 years called out to apply "eco-kosher" standards; we are now getting traction (social change takes a while). We are trying to put together a combination boycott of Rubashkin meat and demand  Iowa & Fedl authoritioes apply the law to the rich (as Torah also commands).  Uri L'tzedek, which had called a boycott, called it off when Ariprocessors appointed someone under their thumb to "keep watch." I thot the original Uri l'Tz staement was far too obseqiuous to the Rubashkins, and I wasn;t surprised when they backed off.

The Shalom Center (shalomctr.org) is pursuing justice. keep tuned. See out website.

 Shalom, Arthur (Rabbi Arthur Waskow) Awaskow@shalomctr.org 

The call here for "justice" takes a very strange view of a proper moral understanding of the phrase.  I have been very critical of Agriprocessors and yet, when the fanatics come out of the woodwork, I am inclined to run in the other direction and actually feel sympathy for how this business is being treated.

The correct tact here is to make sure that the largest producer of kosher meat in the US is in compliance with US laws in its industry and its procedures fully meet kosher standards.  This is PLAINLY not the intent of of the rather wicked conspiracy aligned against the Rubaskhin family which resembles a lynch mob interested in bizarre definitions of "justice" and little having to do with what is kosher and what is not.

In fact, kosher standards are explicitly considered vile under the still evolving standards of the political left.  PETA is a corrupt and morally outlandish group thaty no good Jew could possibly support and I am pleased to say that publicly.  If you are a Jew that has something to do with the morally retarded views of this group which quickly equates human life with animal life--please stop and consult with a qualified Rabbi.  The protest orchestrated against this business (despite the fact that it has perpetrate bad business practices) is tainted by the fact that it was a sensational  PETA video which began the campaign.  PETA has no interest in OUR interests, namely compliance with Federal law and kosher standards--it is ONLY interested in NO killing of animals and worse, PETA's stance is anti-Jewish in the style of the Nazi campaign against kosher slaughter of the 1930's.  These are very bad people with very bad intent. 

However, this fact does not give Postville a clean bill of health and if there is not real change in policy, the buying public will put them out of business and justifiably so.  Much has already improved and the question at hand is whether or not enough reforms are in place to trust this company fully.  My verdict is "not yet" but I easily anticipate that I will be pleased to buy their product again.  The radicals NEVER want this to happen--they are in nirvana over this state of affairs and it is evident they will not be happy until the Rubaskhins are out of business.  This is at odds with the standards of the buying public who simply want a good product at a good price.  There is no compromise with the "evil" Rubaskhins--the Left wants them excoriated.  They stand up for mercy for the "evil-doers"--that is the terrorists who want to kill us all while they want no mercy for the Rubaskhins who simply want to bring a kosher product to homes across the nation--all of this under the banner of "justice."  

The intellectual leftist clap-trap of "eco-kosher" and "justice" for workers has nothing to do with kosher or justice and insults our minds with garbage.  The glee in the hearts of these radicals over the news transparently reveals their intent--it is a real celebration when something goes bad since it is their pretext to junk Jewish standards in favor of their own.  This thinly veiled attempt is tragic and even if the Rubaskhins can be blamed for allowing these radicals a rhetorical foot in the door with bad practices, does not mean we should accept the Radical's plan to crush us and be re-made in their warped image.

Don't conflate "the left" with PETA. It's just not cricket.

So, David N. Friedman, either we march lock-step with Rubashkin, letting bygones be bygones, or else that means we are left-wing PETAphiles?

The correct tact is to punish and incarcerate this recidivist family of criminals, whose sociopathology prevents them from understanding right from wrong.

You are relying on orthodox shul babble. Read the PETA website and their correspondences and statements regarding the Rubashkins. PETA is always forthright and morally consistent in their positions. Stop dividing the world into orthodox vs. some vast left wing PETA antireligious liberal block. That's just shul nonsense.

I am a religious meat-eating Jew who is also a member of PETA; their integrity has emerged intact in this matter. The integrity of the orthodox world hasn't.  

The agriprocessor disgrace has wounded many many Jews throughout the USA very deeply. From your sofa in Boro Park, I'm afraid you'll never understand.

Nope, WoolSilkCotton, I put forward no "either or" scenario. Must I repeat what I have said?

I suggested perspective and an end to extremist rhetoric which seeks to smear a successful business in the worst possible light. As I said, given the evidence, I am not buying product from the Agri center until further data establishes needed changes and compliance. I said that people with illegitimate arguments have exploited the problems to advance their own perverted agenda and I have complained about this state of affairs. The implication here is precisely the opposite of your accusation against me; namely, simply because there are real problems about Agriprocessors does not mean that kosher standards need to radically reformulated or that Bush should be criminally indicted for hurricane Katrina or that Chabad should have done more on behalf of Ethiopian Jewry. All that is at issue is whether the buying public will come to be convinced that the Rubaskhin product is a fully kosher product produced with full compliance of Federal law from this time going forward.

You declare yourself as a "religious meat-eating Jew who is also a member of PETA." This position requires elaborate explanation since it appears as a virtual impossibility. What part of "love animals do not eat them" do you not understand? No doubt PETA will take your money but they cannot honor your stand as a meat-eater. There is only one correct way in the eyes of intolerant, immoral, death-worshiping PETA-- NO consumption of meat. I believe we should allow for a difference of opinion concerning the consumption of meat; PETA allows for no such live and let live position. Interestingly, regarding the killing of innocent human life--this is a matter of morality. The Left loves to argue for the freedom of choice over flushing human life down a sink--PETA equates a chicken with a person. This is neither ethical nor a position of integrity.

The PETA is comprised of leftists and is part of the left. Not all Leftists support PETA--if this amendment is important to you, Anon, fine.

It is not an either or situation. But one thing is clear to me: Liberalism is a mental disease of hate.

Most of the four-letter words on Jewcy and FailedMessiah seem to come from the Orthodox contributors. You can't disagree without vulgarity.

Everything seems to be a vast left wing conspiracy of unions, PETA, 'progressive' Jews, nonorthodox Jews, 'pork eating' Jews, liberals, Obama, The Forward, antisemites, nazis, and communists.