Jewish Mythbusters: Jews Don’t Do Polygamy

Tamar, who are these supposed ultra orthodox jewish groups that practice polygamy?  Where did you hear this bs?  Unless you are referring to some small Jewish community in a far off Arab country, this is unheard of in the mainstream ultra orthodox world, dont make that community sound so backwards.  I mean, it is backwards, but not for that reason.

While polygyny is certainly not a commonly used term, I think it may more accurately describe the practice in question. Unless there's also record in Jewish history of multiple husbands, "polygamy" is too broad.

Where are these so called "underground groups within the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community that still practice polygamy." ? Your proofs for this bust consist of a vote of confidence, an oped and a website. I really hope you're not planning on becoming a trial lawyer any time soon.

How is this "bust" at all consistent with normative Jewish/halachic practice? It's not secret that it's Biblically permissible to  have multiple wives. But what has that got to do with what's happening in the Jewish world today?

As with most of your posts, this is poorly researched and makes bizarre claims that have little to no truth to them.

I don't think that there are any underground haredi goups here in Israel that practice polygamy.  The takkanah against it is now universally accepted & is normative halakhah.  The ban on polygamy was never accepted by Jews in Yemen.  Even so, polygamy was extremely rare there.  There were a few instances of polygamous Yemenite Jews coming here.  The husbands were allowed to have two wives registered on their teudot zehut.  I think there are a few elderly such couples still around.  When they go, the institution of polygamy will go with them.

There have been cases here of haredim (and others) marryoing girls off at 15 or 16, which is illegal under Israeli law.

There have also been rare cases in which men have, under extraordinary circumstances, obtained rabbinical consent to take a second wife (100 rabbis must agree).

 L'chaim!

Oxartes

"But leave the Wise to wrangle,
and with me The Quarrel of the Universe let be:     
And, in some corner of the Hubbub coucht,     
Make Game of that which makes as much of Thee."
Omar Khayyam, "The Rubaiyat

Tamar...I don't think you're Ortho-bashing. There have been some voices raised in favor of polygamy. But they're pretty obscure. To my knowledge, nobody has seriously suggested, as a practical measure, re-instituting polygamy today. There is also the troubling issue of concubinage that has been documented by a number of reliable journalists as existing in some small, obscure pockets of the Orthodox community in New York. It's profoundly disturbing. On the other hand, can the community be reasonably expected to control every harebrained (or even unethical) idea that any Jew anywhere comes up with?  If we can keep mainstream Judaism focused, holy and on-target, we're doing OK. 

Soccer and Jujubee, here are two links of websites (one is from USA today) that claim polygamy is being practiced by Jews today.  http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnist/2004-10-03-turley_x.htm

http://www.pkas.org/PolyPracticedStill.htm

Ravads--I thought about the concubine issue, but ultimately I think it's a separate thing, and in its way, much less objectionable than polygamy.

David--Yes, I think polygyny is the more accurate term, but it's less well known, so I went with polygamy.   

Tamar,

Neither website refers to current "underground groups within the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community that still practice polygamy" or any current Jewish groups.  There may be some aberrant individuals that you can point to, but that is a slippery slope....

"I thought about the concubine issue, but ultimately I think it's a separate thing, and in its way, much less objectionable than polygamy."

I'd love to hear you explain why being a concubine is "much less objectionable" than being in a polygamous relationship.  Speaking from experience???

If we had a primarily agrarian society, and there were no slaves, because Torah laws of slavery are completely different than Western barbaric slavery, then all of this makes sense. A farm can't run with two adults with low life expectancy and 2.2 kids. That's how you starve.

Also, and this is no excuse, but if you put a rather strict prohibition (although it is not a Torah law) against, 'spilling one's seed' on the ground, and couple this with what are two completely different biological clocks (male and female), then you get a recipe for some craziness--which no doubt occurs. Why? Because the Torah is also clear that sex should be mutually consentual--and just to make sure it is, the minhag is for married couples to have frequent sex--just to try to get these different clocks in sync. Of course, it doesn't always happen. I'm just saying, as I frequently do, that we have issues to solve.

"Because the Torah is also clear that sex should be mutually consentual--and just to make sure it is, the minhag is for married couples to have frequent sex--just to try to get these different clocks in sync."

Are you sure that didn't come about because of the mandate to "be fruitful and multiply," or the fact that, in Judaism as with most religions, men were in charge and wanted to get laid a lot?

I'll say it again. If you raise crops, you need lots of people. If you make your own clothes, grind your own flour, make your own pottery, raise your own meat, milk your own goats and cows, make your own wine--you need people. So getting laid, although the pinnacle of modern society, was much more functional in days without cars.

And if you think that in an agrarian culture women are devalued, you are mistaken. Even though there were roles determined by gender, only a fool would think that the work that women did was somehow of lesser value.

Also, Judaism considers women to be of greater holiness than men.

"Judaism considers women to be of greater holiness than men."

One of the best PR campaigns ever.

You give me stereotypes, I give you what I learned in a class or read in a book. But if facts are a problem for you just come out and say it--I, Jonathan, don't like facts. Does what I say mean that some Jews aren't screwy when it comes to women? No, lots of headlines recently attest to just how screwy we can be. It just means, like I said and said and said, that there's work to do.

...why are they not allowed to lead any part of an orthodox service.  Because they're too holy to lead a service?  I think not. 

Why doesn't the orthodox community ordain female rabbis?  Rabbis are a late day invention to Judaism.  Rabbis don't even have any part of the service that is reserved for them halachically.  So why can't women be rabbis?  Because they're too holy, of course.

I would take a bet that I've been to waaayy more classes than you have, Naftali.  But I didn't leave my thinking kippa at home when I went.  I attended class and thought about the material for myself instead of taking what was being fed to me as the be all and end all.

Hello all!

Orthodox Judaism (at least how I understand it & as I've come to embrace it over the last 20+ years) does not denigrate or disparage the role of women. A common (and very condescending & infuriating) liberal fallacy is that because a traditional faith like orthodox Judaism believes that men & women are different and have different roles, that we necessarily believe that women are inferior; people confuse uniformity with equality & mistake the absence of the former for a lack of the latter. Quoth Montgomery Burns, "Pish-posh!" (i.e. this is nonsense).

L'chaim!

Oxartes

"But leave the Wise to wrangle,
and with me The Quarrel of the Universe let be:     
And, in some corner of the Hubbub coucht,     
Make Game of that which makes as much of Thee."
Omar Khayyam, "The Rubaiyat

But let's amend it to mean take good classes. That is, informative classes on what the classic texts actually say.

Let's take your points one at a time. First, the fact that women do not lead services. You somehow feel that this fact interprets itself. Here are three interpretations--you get to choose which one you believe. One, men have spiritual needs, and this is how we can meet these needs. Our needs are different than those of women, because the two genders are different, yin and yang. Two, women can lead services, but they need to get in line like the rest of us. For instance, unless I have to say kaddish, there isn't a chance in the world I will lead the service over someone more knowledgeable in halacha than I am. Three, orthodox Jews are sexist pigs. You pick it.

But the texts are pretty clear that women are indeed holier than men. We need to work harder to get it right. Also, the commandments pertaining to men correlate exactly to the keeping of time. Services are time-bound commandments. We men are obligated to do that. If there are no men around, then the women can certainly do the service.

The idea that Judaism is practiced only three times a day, three time a year, at weddings or at funerals is false. It's a 24/7 religion. So, if you are a woman, and if you are observant, it's not like you have loads of free time--and women don't need a minyan to help them. Men need the minyan. It takes ten of us to do what one woman can do all by herself. Talk to a rabbi about how much fun his job is--it's not. It's mostly a headache. But his job is knowing the halacha and making legal rulings--which he hopes are correct, which, believe it or not, are a function of time.

If you think that you think about the material yourself, it sure doesn't come across in your writing--which consists of patronizing barbs. So, thinker, here's another bet. I'll bet you can't write anything thoughtful.

Naftali and Jonathan

I've probably attended fewer classes than either of you, but I may have attended more orthodox minyanim (based on age if nothing else). Women aren't the ones discriminated against during services (especially the early morning weekday minyans). The ones who are "discriminated" against in real life are the simple Israelites like me: I never lead a service (there's always someone with higher priority) and I seldom get one of the first two aliyas (usually only when our Cohen oversleeps and no one else has a good reason for one...)

Seriously, you can't take one or two items (services/Rabbis) from Jewish practice and use that as the basis to measure worth/honor/holiness. Even from a "modern" perspective, you'd have to examine the other numerous rules that treat men and women differently to reach a judgment. You haven't done that here. I don't know if anyone has. 

Maybe I am not man enough but one Jewish woman is enough for me.

 Thanks.

Didn't/Don't the Temanim practice polygyny?

One unsupported statement from a 4 year old oped from USA Today is proof that Jewish polygamy still exists? I'm sorry, that's just really weak.

There might be isolated cases of crazy people who practice this,  just like there are isolated cases of crazy people who beat their children in the name of God. But that doesn't mean that polygamy has somehow come back into fashion even in underground charedi groups.