The Beijing Olympics Are Like Berlin in 1936 All Over Again

Now who will be 2008's Jesse Owens?

 L'chaim!

 Oxartes 

"But leave the Wise to wrangle,
and with me The Quarrel of the Universe let be:     
And, in some corner of the Hubbub coucht,     
Make Game of that which makes as much of Thee."
Omar Khayyam, "The Rubaiyat

Good question. Are there any tibetan ex pats on any olympic teams?

Btw, is there a Taiwan team in the 2008 olympics?

This is not exactly like Berlin. China is the second highest holder of U.S. foreign debt. That doesn't seem to be upsetting too many Americans, the way the Olympics is doing.

Here is a video (about 9 minutes long) about China and Tibet that gives a different perspective from the mainstream media.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsoc4-QnplY

Here is a brief clip (about 3 minutes) from a National Geographic video about Tibet.

Here you can see a Tibet slave with a metal collar around his neck and shackles around his ankles.

It also shows a Nazi visiting Tibet and praising the aristocracy, saying it could be a role model in a political system for Germany.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMWT6CBaAtQ

Here is an article about Tibet

http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html

Here is a news story from China Daily about slaves, in China, in the year 2007 http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-06/16/content_895699.htm

Parenti and his acolytes like Randal Jones, have tried to suggest for decades that the social and economic inequalities in Pre-1950 Tibet-- which the Dalai Lama had no control over since he was in his minority-- were an excuse for China to invade Tibet. Yes, there were many poor people in Tibet before 1950--and there are many poor people there today. Yes, wooden and metal shackles were used to punish criminals in Tibet pre 1949--and Tibetans are tortured by China today. Jones' motive with his comments is to bring up the old canard that "The Tibetans were all slaves, and China liberated them." Its hogwash. Tibetans, Americans, and Chinese, need to resolve their own social ills-- without foreign invasion to 'help' them.

If it were acceptable for China to invade Tibet, to 'help' the Tibetans then China should have invaded Mississippi in the 1950's because of the inequalities there? Or if this is true then the US should invade China, today, because slavery is still allowed there?

Thomas C. Laird wrote, "
Here is a news story from China Daily about slaves, in China, in the year 2007"

I know about that, see here is another article about it

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-06/16/content_895699.htm

The people that were involved in enslaving were arrested. 

So how does Tibet getting its independence going to help improve human rights in the rest of China? 

You wrote, " If it were acceptable for China to invade Tibet, to 'help' the Tibetans
then China should have invaded Mississippi in the 1950's because of the
inequalities there? Or if this is true then the US should invade China,
today, because slavery is still allowed there?"

The
United States went through a civil war to keep the South united with
the North. This is evidently the goal of China, because its not only
the Tibetans that are asking for independence. 

You wrote, "The Tibetans were all slaves, and China liberated them." Its hogwash.
Tibetans, Americans, and Chinese, need to resolve their own social
ills-- without foreign invasion to 'help' them"

 No
not all the Tibetans were slaves, the aristocrat class were slave
owners. And a Nazi that visited Tibet thought this would be a good political system for Germany.

I agree that each society needs to solve their own problems. But
ever since the end of colonialism, countries like the United States and Britain have interfered with the development of Third World countries in
the Middle East, Asia, South America, and Africa.  While Western
nations preached human rights and democracy, they go around engaging in
regime change, supporting brutal dictators and kings who do their
bidding.

Why aren't people as upset about the huge amount of U.S.
debt that China holds as they are about the Olympics being held in
Beijing?

I appreciate this article. Americans do need to question the U.S.'s relationship with China more deeply.  

I am upset about China being the second highest holder of U.S. foreign debt. Holding a country's debt is the most effective way to control its actions. Hell, the only reason half this country hasn't rebelled is because we know that all presidential terms must come to  an end.
The Chinese and Tibetans do not have that to look forward to.  

And public opinion surprisingly does matter to dictatorships...the ego is such a twisted thing.  But it only goes so far.  Thomas is right in advising individuals to think globally when they shop locally. The movement of money speaks louder than words. Hopefully, Americans will demand a more ethical and restrained economic and foreign policy from their representatives in the years to come. 

Mika wrote, ''I am upset about China being the second highest holder of U.S. foreign
debt. Holding a country's debt is the most effective way to control its
actions."

China didn't/doesn't make the United States go around engaing in regime change (even of democratically elected governments) and support brutal dictators and kings. The United States is the number one seller of weapons in the world and it doesn't hesitate to sell weapons to opposite sides of conflicts.

Right before the United States invaded Iraq for a second time, Saddam Hussein (former U.S. puppet) had changed from U.S. dollars to euros. If China decides to reduce its holdings on U.S. debt, the United States would not invade a large country like China.

It would search for small weak countries where is could extract its natural resources.

Look at the Congo the Untied States sells weapons and trains solders of the opposite side of the civil war and while the people are killing each other, the U.S., Israel, and Europe benefit form the diamonds and other natural resources. The Congolese get paid slave wages to extract the natural resources.

China's justifications of its policies in Tibet are those of a colonial power. This in itself is revelatory. (As a British general reportedly told Ghandi, "India is British.")

Whether ChiCom's supporters like it or not, Tibetans rightly regard Tibet as never having been part of China. If the propaganda about slaves and serfs were true, why do Tibetans after 60 years of beneficient Communist rule support the Dalai Lama? If you think this is not true you don't know Tibet or Tibetans.

Although China could claim sovereignty over Tibet based on conquest (1950) they arrogantly do not - rather claiming that "Tibet has always been part of China." This works for people who don't know history (which sadly includes most citizens of China - who have only been taught propaganda by a censored and government controlled media). As the Dalai Lama said last week, the uprising in Tibet has shattered China's propaganda that, except for a few reactionaries, the people of Tibet are prosperous and happy.

One can ignore this and blame the CIA, slavemasters, the Dalai Clique, George Bush, Iraq, Congo, capitalism, or Global Warming but as the Dalai Lama has said, force can provide peace and stability only temporarily but not long-term. This is the problem that China faces. They have not been able to suppress Tibet. The very policies designed to absorb Tibet are now the cause of the unrest all stemming from the lie that Tibet has always been part of China.

Collective punishment" is a term used often used to describe Israel's retaliation against Hamas terrorist attacks. Teheran usually rushes to be the first in line to accuse the Jewish state. Yet the Iranian regime's claim to represent the interests of Arabs is belied by its brutal persecution of the indigenous Ahwazi Arabs living within its own territory, who have been under direct rule from Persians since the end of self-government in 1925. This week, Iran cut off drinking water supply to Arab villages along the left bank of the Shatt al-Arab, causing social unrest and fears of an outbreak of disease.

Ahwazi Arabs are the most deprived and persecuted ethnic group in the Middle East, with human development indicators at an African level - far below those of the Palestinians. This ethno-national group has been subjected to forced relocation, land confiscation, cultural repression, state terrorism, mass executions and economic disadvantage, even though their land is one of the most oil-rich regions in the world. Being deprived of drinking water is simply the latest atrocity committed against them.

Although the area has many large rivers - the Karoon and the Karkeh as well as the Shatt al-Arab - water has become salinated by intensive sugar cane production and polluted by the petrochemical industries. It is now undrinkable, particularly at the mouth of the Karoon where the river feeds into the Shatt al-Arab. In the late 1990s, riots broke out in the oil town of Abadan, which lies on the Shatt Al-Arab, over the lack of clean drinking water. Security forces killed dozens of Ahwazi Arabs during these "water riots."

The government eventually responded to the problem by supplying drinking water in tanks to villages and towns in the affected areas. The halt in drinking water supply is likely to lead to outbreaks of water-born diseases such as cholera and typhoid - this in a region which has more oil than Kuwait and the UAE combined. It will also incite yet more Ahwazi Arab unrest.

The intention behind the action is two-fold: to punish and intimidate the restive Arab population and to drive them off their traditional lands so as to strengthen the regime's military presence in the region and bolster the economic interests of a predatory religious elite.

Ahwazi Arabs are being punished for armed attacks on bus convoys operated by the Rahiyan-e-Nur, a section of the hard-line volunteer paramilitary force the Bassij which is responsible for visits to the Iran-Iraq War battlefields. The Bassij are hated by the Ahwazi Arabs, largely because the Bassijis are deployed to murder any Arab opponents of the regime.

Forced relocation is also thought to be part of a long-term plan to force indigenous Arabs from their villages to expand the Arvand Free Zone, a military-industrial complex being developed along the Shatt al-Arab. Arabs living on Minoo Island, south of Abadan, have already faced state intimidation and expulsion. Most Ahwazi Arabs believe this is in line with the government's ethnic cleansing program, which was outlined in a letter written by then vice-president Ali Abtahi and leaked to the press in April 2005.

ULTIMATELY, CONTROL over the Shatt al-Arab - achieved by settling a loyal non-indigenous population on traditional Arab land - will give Iran a stranglehold over Baghdad and thereby the entire Middle East. The ethnic cleansing of Ahwazi Arabs is nothing less than a prelude to the extension of Iran's empire and a projection of the principle of Velayat-e-Faqih, rule by Shi'ite religious jurisprudence headed by Iran's supreme leader. The presence of a large, dispossessed and restless Arab population along the border is simply the last hurdle for Iran's plan to expand its sphere of influence. What better tactic than to drive them out with disease and starvation?

The plight of Ahwazi Arabs is crucial to security in the Middle East. Yet Ahwazi Arabs can neither rely on their Iranian religious compatriots nor their Arab ethnic brothers for support. Iranian "opposition" movements have often indicated that they would stand alongside the current regime against Ahwazi Arabs to prevent what they see as the destruction of their country by an "alien" race - even though Ahwazis themselves do not advocate secession.

Ahwazi Arabs also have few friends in the Arab world. As they are predominantly Shi'ite, Ahwazis elicit little sympathy from their Sunni Arab brothers. Moreover, many governments in the region are careful not to upset the militaristic and aggressive power lying to their north. They view the Ahwazi issue as a struggle that could cause them unnecessary problems were they to be involved.

If the Iranian regime is to be prevented from driving the Ahwazi Arabs literally off the map, then it's vital that their predicament be placed firmly on the "political map" in the West as well as the Arab world. International solidarity is essential to ending Ahwazi Arabs' persecution and to secure regional political stability.

"International solidarity is essential to ending Ahwazi Arabs' persecution and to secure regional political stability."

While I have sympathy for the Ahwazi Arabs, MAD is a much better solution to ensure  "regional political stability" at least as far as Israel is concerned.  Israel's development of submarines with strategic nuclear missile (aka second strike) capability does more to ensure stability than anything else realistically imagineable. The only problem is making the Iranians and arab leaders understand that any CBN attack on Israel will be treated as an atack by them.

Frank wrote, "One can ignore this and blame the CIA, slavemasters, the Dalai Clique,
George Bush, Iraq, Congo, capitalism, or Global Warming but as the
Dalai Lama has said, force can provide peace and stability only
temporarily but not long-term"

Don't you see the extreme hypocrisy when Western countries go around preaching human rights and democracy, yet engage in regime change (even of democratically elected governments), and support brutal dictators and kings who do their bidding?

IF you want China to stop its brutal military actions, Western countries should set the example and stop their destructive military and political actions in the Middle East, Asia, Africa, and South America.

I was not suggesting a connection between China's holding of US Debt and the US invading other countries for regime change. When a country holds your purse strings, you're just less likely to criticize it and hold it accountable for its actions. And the Bush administration is demonstrating that quite nicely.

now you just sound like you're out to argue with anything you can. lame. 

Randall, Many supporters of the Chinese Communist Party agree with you. Check out the comments below this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAtv9Ay8M3c

Here is a taste: "autonomy has been given to tibetans since 1959.
They had
imprisoned by official are the separatist! Dalai Lama just want to be
King of Tibet. He likes tibet people pray and bent on knee to him to
praise him as GOD!
Thats why he is a big Liar monk that i ever seen for entire of my life!
I let you know, how about if your country trying to catch escaping Prisoners?
How do you explain about Iraq?
How do you explain about tortured prisoners by those americans soldiers?
Why they are no protest at all?"

Think about African Americans who went off to fight Hitler in WWII. And came home to racism. But today America has moved forward towards a better union. Unfortunately we have a double task-- reforming the US and ensuring that the dictatorship of the Party in China ends ASAP. We can walk and chew gum at the same time. We can reform the US, and create a useful foreign policy that weakens, rather than strengthens the Party's grip on power in China. China cannot reform itself as long as its in the grip of a one party dictatorship.

Thomas C Laird,

How do you know they are supporters of the
Chinese Communist Party, they could just want to keep China united, not
split up the way the Middle East has been split up at the end of
colonialism.

The way Westerners are approaching the issue would
be like if someone was to preach against taking drugs, in the meantime
that person is sniffing lines of cocaine lines in front of you.

Boston, March 8, 2008. Initiatives for China (GongMinLiLiang or"Citizen Power" in Chinese), the Boston based steering committee for pro-democracy activists inside China and leading voice for a peacefultransition to democracy, called today for conditional Olympic...

Explaining the call for conditional Olympic participation, Initiatives for China president and Harvard scholar, Dr. Yang Jianli, announced that the behavior of the Chinese government is that of a rogue state and not worthy of a nation hosting the Olympics. He said that the time has come for all world leaders, athletes, celebrities, and business leaders to follow the lead of director, Steven Spielberg by following their conscience. "Each of us must establish minimum standards the Chinese government must meet in order to deserve our participation" said Dr. Yang. "The Chinese government cannot be allowed to benefit from Olympic gold, while it denies the benefits of human rights to its citizens. We must send a clear message that democracy is not for sale".

http://www.initiativesforchina.org/default.asp?pid=66

IF this Dr. Yang Jianli lives in the Untied States then he needs to speak up about the United States crimes in Iraq and the Congo, otherwise he  is a self-righteousness hypocrite.

Randall Jones offers "additional information" about Tibet--without telling readers that his source, Michael Parenti, also helped to organize the defense of Slobodan Milosevic.

Milosevic was tried for crimes against humanity, and for organizing the first acts of
genocide in Europe since WWII. But Jones does not see fit to mention this
when recommending that unwary readers might want to listen to Parenti, without
knowing Parenti’s background.

I am puzzled about Jones' motivation. Why offer Parenti as a source about Tibet's
social structure when there are dozens of books that are accepted as being
historically accurate—from people who speak Tibetan. Why offer evidence about Tibet
from such a tainted source? Has Parenti been to Tibet? Does he speak Tibetan?

Or is Parenti qualified to speak about Tibet because he is one of the very few US academics who has devotedly supported Marxist thought for decades?

I fail to understand people who want to go around preaching to other countries about their wrong doings, yet have done nothing about their own country's wrong doings, even though they live in democracies.

Thomas C Laird wrote, “Why offer Parenti as a source about Tibet's
social structure when there are dozens of books that are accepted as being
historically accurate—from people who speak Tibetan. Why offer evidence about Tibet from such
a tainted source? Has Parenti been to Tibet? Does he speak Tibetan?”

I don’t know if Parenti has been to Tibet or speaks
Tibetan, but did you see all the references he lists at the end of his article?

http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html

Regarding Slobodan Milosevic, I know that Parenti says that
the media exaggerated his crimes and the United States and taken unnecessarily
harsh military actions against the Serbians. I really don’t much about this
situation.

But I know that when much of the mainstream media was reporting
on Saddam Hussein’s crimes, they always left out how the United States
had helped Saddam Hussein into power and supported him, strategically and financially,
when he was committing his worst atrocities.

Hey Randall. This room is empty. Its just you and me now. All others have long ago abandoned the fray. So are you ready to learn something, or are you just going to defend without listening?

Think about what you just wrote. "I don't know much about this situation". Very good. First step. You don't know much about the former Yugoslovia. Well guess what, the entire educated world agrees that history proves, beyond any shadow of a doubt that Milosevic ordered Genocide. So ask yourself, why is Parenti defending the genocidal ruler of Serbia? And doesn't it strike you as funny that Parenti is also defending the mass murderers who rule China and Tibet?

Think. I spent more than30 years of my life in Asia; years in Tibet. And you don't even know if Parenti has ever even been to Tibet but you are going to take his word over mine about Tibet?

Why? Why is it so important to you that Parenti's false description of Tibetan society is 'true'? If Parenti is willing to lie about genocide in Yugoslovia... might he not be willing to do the same thing in Tibet?

Think. We can all change, learn, grow.... you don't have to stick to reflexive positions

Thomas C. Laird,

Parenti lists his references, besides did you read the article? He writes,

"Whether
Chinese rule has brought betterment or disaster is not the central
issue here. The question is what kind of country was old Tibet. What I
am disputing is the supposedly pristine spiritual nature of that
pre-invasion culture. We can advocate religious freedom and independence for a new Tibet without having to embrace the mythology about old Tibet. Tibetan
feudalism was cloaked in Buddhism, but the two are not to be equated.
In reality, old Tibet was not a Paradise Lost. It was a retrograde
repressive theocracy of extreme privilege and poverty, a long way from
Shangri-La."

Besides he is not the only source I gave, did you see the National Geographic Video I linked above? Here is another source. Note: while Parenti does not blame Buddhism for the feudalism of TIbet,
the person in this video says Buddhism, which was introduced from
India, is what brought about a caste system in Tibet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsoc4-QnplY

By the way, the UN courts ruled that Serbian soldiers did not commit genocide. See

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1530781.stm

Don't you see how this double standard affects our relationship with weaker/poorer countries? 

You may disagree with this decision, but guess what, the United States is responsible for more deaths in Iraq, than the number of deaths attributed to Serbians. Yet how many high level Americans government officials have been put on trial for their war crimes?

Here is an article that reports "The International Court of Justice in The Hague said the
massacre of 8,000 men in Srebrenica was genocide, but Belgrade was not
directly responsible.

...

In the ruling, the president of the court, Judge Rosalyn
Higgins, said: 'The court finds that the acts of genocide at Srebrenica
cannot be attributed to the respondent's (Serbia) state organs.'"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6399319.stm

I'd like to see a UN court investigate, even though we all know what the answer will be, but just to show there is not a double standard : is what the United States is doing in Iraq and the Congo genocides?

This is no slave. He is a common criminal being punished in this manner instead of being thrown into the slammer. Look at the USA's prisons today. Which is worse? To be punished in the community or locked up and the key thrown away?

The nazi visiting Tibet is Dr Schaefer. He led a genuine scientific expedition to the country. If you do not believe this, then go and look at the original expedition plans in the archives in Berlin and London. From where do you get the idea that he said it would be a role model? Please provide the original statement of his (chapter and verse).

R1,

For now, I will believe the National Geographic film over you.

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMWT6CBaAtQ

Don't you think that Westerners who are demanding to boycott the Olympics in China lose a lot of their creditability, when they do not protest as loudly when the United States and its allies go around engaging in regime and supporting brutal dictators and kings who do their bidding? Despite living in democracies, they have not been able to stop the United States and its allies from bombing weak/poor countries and exploiting their natural resources.