Fri, Sep 05, 2008

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The Perils of Inter(denominational) Dating

This morning I was reading an article in the New York Times about women who don’t like dating men who make much less money than they do because it makes for an awkward--or at the very least unromantic--dynamic. The article ends with the following little date anecdote:
So....: How do you keep kosher?So....: How do you keep kosher?

Unyi Agba, 27, an advertising executive with a small firm in Boston, almost always dates professional men, but when she goes out with someone earning less money, there is tension. “This is a topic that’s traveled in my own female circles a lot in the last year,” she said. Across a restaurant table with a man who earns less, “it’s never explicitly said, but there are nuances,” she said. “Things are said like, ‘Boy I’m going to be really broke after this dinner.’ "
And her response?
“Silence.”

Full story

I was thinking about this because in my dating life it’s generally not the income that’s an issue so much as the particular level of religiosity or observance. The awkward silences that happen on my dates aren’t because of financial discrepancies, they’ll be because he’ll say something like, “I’m so excited to go to the Titans game on Saturday morning,” and I’ll have nothing add, since I’m going to spending Saturday morning at shul.

This is something that doesn’t get discussed much, but that is a real and frustrating issue for most singles I know. The pressure is on to find a Nice Jewish Partner, and everyone acts like it’s as easy as joining JDate, but the truth is that even a Nice Jewish Boy from the Upper West Side might not be a good match for me if he’s particularly invested in going to a lot of Big Ten football games, or even if he just hates ever going to synagogue. And a superfrum black hat guy from Monsey probably wouldn’t be happy with me and my jeans and non shomer-negiah lifestyle.

People like to downplay this as an issue, but the more time I spend in the dating circuit the more I notice how tough it is, especially for people who really are engaged with Jewish life in any substantial way, to find someone who even approaches their level of observancy. And honestly if you find someone who you really like but who doesn’t jive with the standards you’ve set for yourself, I don’t know of any resources or groups you can join to help figure out how to deal with that situation, even though it can be as challenging for you and your partner as it would be if one of you wasn’t Jewish. I’d say it even has potential to be more problematic than dating a non-Jew, because I think a lot of times in those situations the non-Jewish person doesn’t feel like they could be being judged or ridiculed for not participating in a ritual or joining an organization. As a goy, they’re exempt. But if I was dating a Jewish guy and he saw that I was keeping Shabbat, and wouldn’t eat meat in non kosher restaurants, he would be justified in being annoyed that I’m ruining his plans for crazy nights at the bars downtown, or forcing him to change reservations so we don’t eat at a steak house. I mean, he's Jewish and he's not staying in. And I would be justified in being annoyed that he doesn’t want to come to shul with me.

I don’t know what the solution to this is, other than only dating people whose religious lives are already really similar to yours, and I know that in any relationship there are going to be some discrepancies between how observant the two parties are and are willing to become. I’m just saying, no one ever talks about how hard it can be¬--even when you’re only dating Jews—to find someone who is really on the same spiritual and religious plane as you are. I’ve dated nonJews and never missed Shacharit, and I’ve dated Jews and had them convince me to come with them to a bar on Shabbat and they would just pay for my drinks. I’m not saying either of those were good relationships to begin with, I just think that if we’re going to push Jewish dating so hard we should have some contingency plans for couples that don’t belong to the same movement.



Tamar Fox has an MFA from Vanderbilt University in Nashville, but she still doesn't like sweet tea. Born and raised in Chicago, she's also lived in Iowa City, Dublin, Oxford, and Jerusalem. When she's not rocking out at honky tonks she teaches


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zbird


seems like a simple problem of statistics

Only about 2% of the US population is Jewish, meaning the chance of anyone one is attracted to being Jewish is 1/50. (probably less in Tennesse).

Then multiply .02 by the fraction of Jews who are religiously-compatible, and you're stuck with a very low chance of meeting anyone who will meet your standards.

In traditional societies people ensured religious continuity and conformity in a deliberate fashion: parents would simply set their kids up before the kids could make a choice. Often you'd end up with your first cousin--how better to ensure that your son/daughter inlaw is religiously appropriate than to put your sibling in charge of his/her religious upbringing. And you'd live in a ghetto, so chances are you wouldn't even know someone from another religion, much less fall in love.

In 21st century America we can't stomach arranged marriages, and we live in diverse communities where everyone chooses their own level of observance. This translates into low odds of meeting someone religiously compatible. At the same time, our view of relationships is such that we imagine the person we commit our life to must be a "soulmate": perfectly compatible AND full of chemistry/romance.

In the end something has got to give. If you draw a line at religion you'll probably have to compromise on compatibility in other areas, or on chemistry. If you marry for love (and love only) you're not likely to end up with the .02 X ? percent of the population that is both Jewish and has the same level of observance as you.

And I haven't even touched on the problem of people's observance changing over time. If you marry someone, does he/she make an implicit commitment to stay the same until death?

I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, although personally I prefer intermarriage to ghetto-ization. But it's clear you can't have it all--the numbers just don't work.

--Z





mhpine


Different Observance v. Non-Observance

Tamar, unless you reclassify "three-day a year" Judaism into a denomination, most of what you are talking about isn't inter-denominational, but simply a mismatch between someone who is passionate about Judaism and someone who isn't.  That's an awfully big hurdle to overcome and I know that I could never have married anyone who didn't care deeply about Judaism. 

On the other, inter-denominational relationships pose a very different challenge.  Now you start running into questions like whether or not a mechitza is a red line, or whether or not to travel to services & Shabbat dinner across town, whether to keep Orthodox kashrut or eco-kashrut, and whether all of this ritual observance is taking away time better spent on social action.  These questions do not have easy answers, but with a degree of flexibility and patience on each side they can be resolved, and each partner's Jewish identity is enriched and challenged by the other.      





Anonymous


"InterJewish" dating is better than intermarriage.

At least with interdenominational marriage the children will be Jewish. Intermarriage = the extinction of Judaism. Zbird is dating a shiksa and doesn't care about his children being Jewish. Nice going Kapo.





tarfon


Anonymous

"Kapo" is not an acceptable name for one Jew to call another.





tresnick


oy

z's right, the odds are against us.  i've gone back and forth in my head on what i will compromise on regarding a potential jewish partner.  non-negotialble: jewish home, jewish children, attending shul on fridays, and most saturdays.  i am not shomer, but wouldn't mind crossing over every once and a while.  does the person have to be as "passionate" as myself? no, that would be boring.  maybe their passion about being jewish just looks different than mine, and hey, i might learn something new by being open to their level of observence.

anonymous - you are entitled to your view, but using abusive language is unnecessary, and it takes away from your argument.  name calling is not nice.





Anonymous


Changing over time

I will ignore the uncalled-for name-calling.

 But I do want to comment on the notion of a person's level of religious observance changing over time.

We take a risk, any time we commit to another person, that he or she will change and grow in ways that do not match up to our own change and growth.  I think the best we can do is be honest with each other about our needs and desires.

 I was an ex-Catholic, secular LGBT activist when I met my partner, who had been mostly a "holiday Jew," though her family had Shabbat dinners when she was a child.  We knew that, if we decided to stay together for the long haul, we would raise our children Jewish.  So, that was out of the way.  I wanted my children (God willing we'll have a few!) to be raised with a religious and ethical tradition, and I felt a sense of political responsibility to Judaism, given the too-long history of attempts to annihilate the Jewish religion and people.  So I was willing to learn about Judaism, but I never made a commitment to convert.

And then I converted and of course became more observant than my partner had been.  We are Reform Jews, we attend shul every Friday and most Saturdays, we observe Jewish holidays, and I am still trying to figure out my own relationship to other rituals like Kashrut.  I talk to my partner about all the changes and choices.

 But, for that matter, I talk to my partner about all the changes and choices in our lives, from financial issues to how we might want to discipline those future children to how we spend our weekends to her needs for her career to how we want to deal with things like world hunger and cruelty to animals and sexism... get the picture?





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