Having worked at ADL in the past, I would not underestimate the incompetence of the Media Relations Department. That's one possible explanation for the "tortured prose" in Foxman's statement.

But I don't think anyone should be satisfied with this statement.

Take a look at the statement again, but replace the words "1915-1918" with "1939-1945," "Ottoman Empire" with "Nazi Germany," and "Armenians" with "Jews."

Would anyone in the Jewish community, or ADL for that matter, be satisfied with a statement that the "consequences" of the actions of Nazi Germany were "tantamount" to genocide.

Who cares if "they" would have called it a genocide? And who is the "they" that Foxman is referring to. I want to know if ADL/Foxman calls it a genocide!

Anon, no, for a number of reasons it's an inadequate statement even if they *were* attempting to acknowledge the genocide. But I'm no longer certain that they even did that.

Joey,

Thanks again for your detailed analysis. The more I hear from Foxman and the ADL's "statements" the more angry I get. Here's what the Boston Globe wrote today:

"In an interview with the Globe, Foxman said that for some time he has privately believed that the mass killings constituted a genocide, but thought that describing them as atrocities or massacres was enough. Yesterday, he said, he realized this description was dividing the Jewish community and the ADL changed its position. So if that word [genocide] brings the community together, that's fine," Foxman added.

He doesn't tell the truth, because it's the right thing to do. He doesn't tell the truth so as to honor the memory of the innocents who were murdered. He doesn't tell the truth to form a solidarity with another oppressed and exterminated people who have never dishonored or disrespected his community the way he is doing to their community. He BEGRUDGINGLY tells the truth so that his lies won't tear apart the Jewish community!

I swear he should just stop saying anything. Everything he says makes it worse. And that cockamamie position letter, in addition to being tortured and shallow, is a further lobby effort against Congressional acknowledgment of the Armenian Genocide. The message it sends to Congress is clear, THE ADL DOES NOT SUPPORT CONGRESSIONAL AFFIRMATION OF THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE, SO DON'T VOTE IN FAVOR OF IT.

I'm more and more disgusted and upset every day this goes on.

Phantom, yes, the did-he-or-didn't-he question is really only the most superficial question. The statement is problematic down to the bottom, even if it is an acknowledgment of the genocide. I'll post on those larger issues ASAP.

Joey:

Perhaps the statement isn't as straightforward as you'd like. I initially wondered why they didn't just say "genocide", as well.

But it's also obvious that you have a hard on for Foxman and the ADL.

Aram Hamparian, executive director of the Armenian National Committee of America, ishappy with the statement.

And longtime ADL critic and Lobby paper defender Alan Wolfe is, as well, saying about the congressional resolution...

"such a resolution is pure symbolism, and the last we thing we need is more symbolic politics. More likely, passage of the resolution would infringe on free speech, as hate crime legislation often does, and encourage defensive nationalism in Turkey when we in the United States should be supporting democratic movements in that country, even if those movements are religious."

(I really don't have an opinion on it one way or another).

Be happy you're part of a community that realized the error in jdugment and protested accordingly, leading to a prominent spokeperson's reversal of language.

Few other minority activist organizations in this country are held to, and deliver on, the standard being applied here.

I'd love to see academics and "progressives" voice the outrage against Arab American organizations for not actively condemning and pressuring Arab countries about the current genocide in Darfur that was - rightly - voiced against the ADL.

Wow, Kurtzman, you are either obtuse or just want the end of the ADL entirely. Don't you understand how momentous this is? Turkish diplomacy and those opposed to recognition have been doing everything in their power to prevent people from using the word "genocide." It doesn't matter how tortured the prose; the mere invocation of the word (without the qualifier "alleged" or "claimed by Armenians") is an irreversible blow to the aims of the "soft" deniers.

To Phantom: there were people in France, too, who while accepting fully the historical truth that what the Ottoman empire did to the Armenians was genocide still opposed legislation on this matter. I happen to support House Resolution 106, but I don't think there is a moral imperative to do so. Opposing the Congressional resolution is not equivalent to denial; however, refusing to use the word genocide when talking about the historical record is.

Gentlemen,

I'm happy to accept that this is simply a matter of "tortured prose," rather than deliberate obfuscation. In that case, I'm only mystified as to why the ADL wouldn't have simply stated it clearly enough that I and similarly obtuse people in Watertown and elsewhere wouldn't be left trying to divine the plain meaning of the text. It's bizarre and counterproductive, and diminishes any impact it might have. But yes, if this is a plain affirmation of the genocide, then regardless it's a momentous step forward.

As for what "progressives" do, and whether Jewcy is willing to be tough on Arab organizations, you'll note that Jewcy is often denounced as a hothouse for insufferable posturing young neocon ideologues. I think that describes me pretty well. 

Amos, I respectfully disagree with you regarding your view that there is no moral imperative for a nation to collectively call a genocide a genocide. There is a moral imperative! If a genocide is happening or has happened, it is the moral imperative of the U.S. and every free and modern nation in the world to swiftly and collectively say, "WE KNOW YOU ARE COMMITTING GENOCIDE" or "WE KNOW YOU COMMITTED A GENOCIDE". This is the least that should be done. Every Armenian who lost a branch of his family during the Armenian Genocide should understand this. Every Jew who lost a branch of her family during the Holocaust should understand this. This is a minimum requirement. If we do not do this, how are we ever to end the cycle of Genocide that has gripped this world for so long? No people are safe from this. It can happen in any nation, and against any group. If you read Robert Melson's historiography on the Armenian Genocide and the Jewish Holocaust, you will understand how it can happen again. For the ADL to tell Congress it does not support this recognition is shameful, disheartening, and extremely shortsighted. Moreover, it sends a clear message to the world that the ADL is not a human rights organization. At best, it is a Jewish rights organization that, for some reason, does not believe acknowledgment of another people's genocide is a good thing.

It acknowledged the genocide, but it has yet to apologize to Andrew Tarsy and reinstate him, and it also has yet to withdraw its opposition to the Congressional resolution.

 Foxman isn't doing what is right because it's right, he's doing it because he got caught doing something wrong.

Having had the time really exegete Foxman’s statement, it strikes me that he is simply rewording the historic denial of the Armenian Genocide.Look at his words: the consequences of those actions were indeed tantamount to genocide.”Ok, that is not saying that the Ottoman Turks deliberately committed genocide. Is it?That’s more like saying: The result of driving a car is the emission of greenhouse gases! You’re not trying to pollute on purpose, you’re just driving to work and pollution is unintended consequence.

Or a better example would be saying: Hitler was not trying to kill all the Jews, just enough to making enough living room for the Nazis. Unfortunately the Nazi bureaucracy went a little overboard and hey the "consequence" was the Holocaust.I wonder how Abe Foxman would react to that statement! Earlier in his statement he says: “We have never negated but have always described the painful events of 1915-1918 perpetrated by the Ottoman Empire against the Armenians as massacres and atrocities.”

So he admits that Ottomans committed massacres. And later on he says the end result was genocide. But he does not admit that the intention was the extermination of a people. It just happened to turn out that way. Oops sorry guys, we didn’t mean to try and wipe you out, we just want to massacre 1.5 million of you.

Now add to that his statement in today’s Globe. "So if that word [genocide] brings the community together, that's fine,"

Talk about arrogance! He’ll use the word genocide if it will make us feel better. Oh how magnanimous!!!!! Who the hell does this guy think he is?

First of all I would like to thank you for bringing this matter to public attention. And thanks for your principled stance regarding this matter.

I think Foxman changed his position not because he genuinely believes there was a
Genocide. His team felt the heat and collectively thought it's best to mitigate and diffuse the issue. He will bring his own demise in few years if he has n't already.

Aram Hamparian of ANCA is "Happy" for political expediency. They don't want this to drag on and they probably got what they wanted from ADL for now. No time or energy needs to be put into this for now as there are other important matters for ANCA (Genocide Recognition, Securing Aid to ravaged Armenia among others).

I think it's simply sad and an insult when Foxman tries tries to deny someone else's suffering just like it's an outrage when Arabs or president of Iran (The Monkey) denies the Holocaust, or the Muslim world falling silent when non-Muslims are being slaughtered in Darfur.

John,

You said what I am thinking much better than I could have.  Your comment about saying Hitler was not trying to kill all the Jews, just enough to making enough living room for the Nazis reminded me of one of the Turkish explanations for what they did to the Armenians:  they were just relocating them.  Of course there were no homes, no food, nothing to sustain life in the desert into which they were driven, and so most died.  Uninteded consequence?  Hardly. 

Linda

Check out the article just published in the Forward.

http://www.forward.com/articles/11470/

“I didn’t make a mistake,” Foxman said Tuesday in an interview with the Forward. He added: “No Armenian lives are under threat today or in danger. Israel is under threat and in danger, and a relationship between Israel and Turkey is vital and critical, so yeah, I have to weigh [that].”

And:

As of press time, the ADL had not announced whether Tarsy would be reinstated. In speaking to the Forward, Foxman — who is slated to release a book, “The Most Dangerous Lies: The Israel Lobby and the Myth of Jewish Control,” next month — remained almost defiantly unapologetic.

“We’ve never denied that there was a massacre, we [just] didn’t engage in the g-word,” Foxman said. “Now, they’ve insisted on the g-word. Fine.” He added: “If my going public and saying this was a genocide can bring unity to the community, and can make the Armenian community feel that they’re being heard, then I did it.”

The national director said he personally had believed that the Armenian tragedy constituted genocide before saying so publicly, but that his reversal was motivated by a concern for Jewish welfare. “I’m saying it sincerely. I still don’t think it’s our issue, but so many people believe it is our issue… I said okay,” Foxman said.

"The immediate object of the League is to stop, by appeals to reason and conscience and, if necessary, by appeals to law, the defamation of the Jewish people. Its ultimate purpose is to secure justice and fair treatment to all citizens alike and to put an end forever to unjust and unfair discrimination against and ridicule of any sect or body of citizens."
ADL Charter
October 1913

ADL's "ultimate purpose is to secure justice and fair treatment to all citizens alike."

How can someone who has worked at ADL for 42 years seem to have completely forgetten that???

The "g-word." This isn't "our issue." How much more out of touch can he get?

Foxman claims to be concerned for the unity of the Jewish community. Yet he is the most divisive figure in the Jewish community today. He may have once served some purpose at ADL and in the Jewish community. Now, he's become a danger to both.

Foxman must resign. He has demonstrated a total lack of principled grounding and a lack of moral values. He is not fit to lead an organization that runs on the premise of a higher moral authority. His latest statements are way short of satisfactory. He has done unimaginable damage to the ADL and the Jewish community. He is finished. He is disgraced. He must go. Now.

It seems that the reversal of the ADL's position in describing the historical events as genocide is sowely due to implementing a scenario of minimum damage control. If it had not issued reversal of position on the definition of the historical events - then the ADL would have been kicked out of many New England communities.

The best outcome from this minimum damage control scenario is that all the incidents will be forgotten with no further effort and statements and that the ADL goes on being a Isreali and Jewish political lobbying organization. This is what is going on currently.

The Miminum Damage Control Scenario:
1) Foxman retracts ADL's position on labeling the massacres as genocide is solely due to the backlash response and ADL New England regional leaders opposing the firing of Tarsy - not because he believes in the moral right to call a genocide a genocide. STATUS: DONE
2) Foxman's visit to New England to meet with regional leaders to smooth things over. Of coarse what is said behind closed doors to these representatives is quite different than what is said publically. STATUS: IN PROGRESS
3) Foxman is trying to save his own ass. His tour de New England and the retraction buys him time to save his ass from getting fired. He gets the breathing room to figure out what to do next. Of coarse it still unfolding and depends upon how things progress from this point. STATUS: IN PROGRESS
4) Continue with the blatant and not so blatant lobbying effort against the Armenian Genocide Recognition resolution. STATUS: IN PROGRESS

Can he do it? I mean can he clean up this mess that has been made under his stewardship? Possibly but it depends upon the Jewish community and how much "mud" in their face they are willing to tollerate and how they re-approach the Armenian-American and other American communities to heal the wounds caused by this hypocracy. It also depends upon how tarnished the program No Place For Hate has become and how much true moral character the Jewish community has left and what unethical positions they are willing to bear.

The mistake Foxman and other Jewish Organizations made (and continue to make) is to become involved with denial of the Armenian Genocide. The organizations should have just told the Turks straight out - we will not become politically involved with either side of this historical event. However - once they did get involved and chose sides - they were caught with their pants down - and then the shit hit the fan. Now it depends on how much "mud" in the face the Jewish community is willing to tolerate from their leaders in these organizations, and, is he of any use to them anymore after this episode.

In the end, to save face and restore its dignity, the Jewish community probably will end up having Foxman fired. The sooner the better it is for the ADL and the quicker they can get back on track. However if they were really serious, not just lip service serious but truly serious about cleaning up their image as a group, then the Jewish community would fire Foxman and issue a statement of support for the Armenian Genocide Recognition resolutions before Congress.

http://www.townonline.com/arlington/homepage/x663480064

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/city_region/breaking_news/2007/08/regio...

Regional ADL votes to reinstate fired leader

By Keith O'Brien, Globe Staff

The regional board of the Anti-Defamation League voted today to ask the national office reinstate its fired leader, Andrew H. Tarsy, and urged the organization's national policy-making body to support a Congressional resolution recognizing the Armenian genocide that began in 1915.

Abraham H. Foxman, the ADL's national director, declined to comment today on how this vote would affect Tarsy, saying it was a "management issue." But he confirmed that the ADL's national policy-making body will take up the Congressional resolution issue when it meets in New York in early November.

"All they had to do was ask," Foxman said. "That's our procedure."

Before returning to New York late Tuesday, Foxman spent roughly 24 hours in Boston, trying to repair a fractured Jewish community outraged over his recent comments. The statement issued Tuesday by the ADL acknowledging the Armenian genocide was well received, Foxman said, and his visit to Boston was productive and helped the organization move forward.

"I felt people listened, were willing to listen, were willing to discuss," he said "There was very little anger, very little heat, a great deal of sensitivity and exchange."

"There was very little anger, very little heat, a great deal of sensitivity and exchange."

I am more angry with ADL now after hearing their Tuesday's statement.

Foxman must be thrown out, ADL must support the pending resolution in Congress AND the Senate, ADL must appologize to the Armenian-American community, ADL must appologize to the Jewish community, other Jewish organizations that lobby AGAINST the Armenian Genocide Resolution must do the same.

Um, the quote that Jewcy is attributing to me at the top of every Jewcy page sounds like I'm saying that genocide recognition is not a moral imperative. I was quoting someone else and arguing that it is a moral emperative. Are you guys sure you want to cut and paste my statement in that way?

While it is a big change that the ADL claims it was a genocide after many years of opposing that term, recognizing it through a series of syntaxtic somersaults capped off with a 'while we recognize it, we actually discourage it from being similarly recognized by the US Congress because that'd actually mean something' (not a direct quote) is hardly heartening. Why else would the national ADL recognize it on paper while still toiling away at making sure nobody else, namely the US Congress does the same thing? They interrupt a statement of recognition with the sending of a direct message to the US Congress telling them to not do as they do! This definitely means that Foxman couldn't stand the heat anymore, and for the sake of the organization he gave in to demands for a recognizing statement, but most likely it's the first and last of it's kind. Now that they said it they can continue operating as normal by seeing to it that it is not recognized by the US Congress. Foxman was outraged of claims that the ADL was being hypocritical by not recognizing the genocide, but what irony that his very message recognizing the genocide only intensifies the hypocracy!
And no word yet on Andy Tarsy's status with the organization.

I don't know how to change the "Jewciest comments," phantom, but I e-mailed the people who do and asked them to change it stat. Sorry about that. That's an unfortunate selection from your comment.

It is highly possible that the US congress will take up the resolution prior to the ADL meeting in November. According Keith O'Brien, Globe Staff "But he confirmed that the ADL's national policy-making body will take up the Congressional resolution issue when it meets in New York in early November."

If the US Congress does take up the issue prior to the ADL Novemebr's meeting and if the resolutions pass without ADL's support then has missed a golden opportunity to take the high road. If they do not then they can damage their influence within the halls of Congress.

The ADL needs to trump the US Congress and go on record for the US affirmation and recognition of the genocide of the Armenians via this congressional resolution prior to any Congressional action.

Let's go back to this amazing statement:
(http://www.forward.com/articles/11470/)

"“I didn’t make a mistake,” Foxman said Tuesday in an interview with the Forward. He added: “No Armenian lives are under threat today or in danger. Israel is under threat and in danger, and a relationship between Israel and Turkey is vital and critical, so yeah, I have to weigh [that].”"

Mr. Foxman is so blinded by the "vital and critical" Israeli-Turkish relationship/alliance that he doesn't care about twisting the facts.

He seems to be completely unaware about the fact that a courageous Armenian journalist, Hrant Dink, was killed in cold blood in Istanbul on January 19, 2007, because of his stand on the Armenian Genocide and its recognition by Turkey. The perpetrator was caught and is on trial right now, but one should be pretty sure that the facts seem to point far into the Turkish so-called "deep state" and its kemalist-nationalist brand as the actual instigators of such a despicable crime.

Mr. Foxman also seems to be completely unaware that the diminishing Armenian community in Turkey (= Istanbul, essentially) has received threats of different kind by Turkish nationalists since January. The Armenian Patriarchate, churches, schools, journalists have received death menaces of different caliber.

Someone who has 42 years of service at the ADL should care about checking his facts before putting out groundless statements (one more after his tongue-twisted "recognition" of the Armenian Genocide!), otherwise they could be exposed as "misleading", to put it mildly, or "lies", to put it bluntly...

The choice is up to the reader.

Foxman says, “No Armenian lives are under threat today or in danger." Yeah, my thoughts exactly. No danger whatsoever, except for the occasional assassination and the criminalization of any frank discussion of the mass-murder of your forebears. Other than that, life is charmed.

But gosh, Scholar, I mean Foxman has said of the Armenians “Now, they’ve insisted on the g-word. Fine.” "So if that word [genocide] brings the [Jewish] community together, that's fine."

What more eloquent and forceful statement about the Armenian Genocide could the Armenian community possibly want??

I would like to know exactly what Turkey has threatened to do, either to the Jewish community there, or with respect to Turkey's relations with Israel, should the United States recognize the Armenian Genocide.

This is racial scapegoating of the worst kind for Turkey to blame Jews the world over for a specific Jewish lobbying organization in the U.S. for not supporting the denial that Turkey demands.

How on earth can Foxman just shrug his shoulders and say that this is the political reality Jews must deal with?

I remember Turkey made all sorts of threats against France in the late 90s before it recognized the Genocide. When recognition came to pass, the pain Turkey inflicted was short and shallow (I think they cancelled some plane orders).

Why Israel or the Turkish Jewish community should be made to be pawns in this Turkey-U.S. matter is beyond me, and why the ADL feels like it has no power but to accept the way Turkey has framed this speaks exceedingly poorly to Foxman's capacity for leadership.

I hope ADL can rectify its standing within the Jewish and broader community by canning this guy.

Jason:

The ADL can not can him today because he is just about to publishg a book about his life as head of the ADL. If he was fired today then that would ruin his book tour. He would lose $$$$$$ "In speaking to the Forward, Foxman — who is slated to release a book, “The Most Dangerous Lies: The Israel Lobby and the Myth of Jewish Control,” next month — remained almost defiantly unapologetic."

What is more important to Jews - the ending of the support of the denial of the genocide of the Armeians committed by the Turks of the Ottoman Era or support PR “The Most Dangerous Lies: The Israel Lobby and the Myth of Jewish Control,”. Lets not be stupid here - Jewish PR is more important the elimination of a genocide denial and support of a resolution commerating the victims (not the survivors) of a terrible genocide in a proper manner.

B.T.W. The title of his book - "The Most Dangerous Lies: The Isreal Lobby and the Myth of Jewish Control" is certainly queer when viewed in light of the Armenian Genocide Resolution and the Jewish/Isreali Lobby response to it. The timing of the exposure of the lies by the ADL could not have been more worse for Foxman to make lots of money from this book. I can not swallow the direction that this title eludes to because I have now been enlighted.

I think I will contact Amazon.com, Barnes and Noble, and Borders to enlighten them also about the shinanigins and moralality of this up and coming author.

Interesting thesis - the Jewish community will not fire Foxman because of his upcoming PR book tour. I like this conspiracy theory because it does have some weight to it. Even with his reputation in the sewer, the ADL can let him stay because he has done the minimum about of damage control to stop the hemmoraging, promised to talk about the resolutions in November, and the final caveat is the PR associated with his new book. His reputation in presenting the PR in the book to America is better if they do not fire him - therefore they will not fire him.

Capitalism at its best - when genocide denial campaigns for Jewish lobbing organizations can be supported and purchased at Barnes and Noble for $19.99.

God the ADL is such a gutter organization - I hope they do not come to my community here in the Bay area.

Is an interesting move... especially because rumor has it that the genocide resolution could be brought to the floor as soon as September. Politics, especially on such a touchy issue, is impossible to predict so it's not to say whether it will definitely be talked about in September or not, but if indeed it is (where it will presumably pass as over half the House supports it) that whole "we'll talk about it in November" business would be completely obsolete anyway.

No Way we should wait until November to find out whether the ADL will support the Armenian resolution. Foxman is trying to buy time and is implying that he'll stick around until then. HE SHOULD HAVE RESIGNED ALREADY. The news headlines this morning should have read: "Abe Foxman's 42-Year Career Ends in Self-Imploding Bang!"

Foxman's statements and explanations are utterly pathetic. He's been with the ADL for 42 years and now, suddenly, he decides to consult with Elie Weisel who, as if he's never stated it before, informs him for the first time that it was Genocide??

Abe Foxman is in the genocide and anti-defamation business -- there is no way in hell that he was poorly informed on the issue of the Armenian Genocide all these years!!

Of course he was well informed: he's been lobbying against recognition of the Armenian genocide all these years! How insane is that !?! This is nothing short of ACTIVE holocaust Denial!

Of all people, of all organizations, could there be a more hypocritical stance ??? How can Foxman, how can the ADL ever claim moral high ground again??

We see that the international press has already caught on to this, INCLUDING THE IRANIAN PRESS. Bravo, Foxman! What a great job you have done! Yes, stick around for another few years and for your book tour -- this will really help!

Now Foxman, in a sort of reversal, is saying that, well, it was tantamount to Genocide after all, and he's willing to say as much, but strictly for the sake of calming the community -- AND YET HE DOES NOT WANT THE US CONGRESS TO RECOGNIZE IT AS GENOCIDE AND WILL CONTINUE TO ACTIVELY LOBBY AGAINST IT!!!!

HOW INSANE IS THAT?

Does Foxman think we're all idiots??
How will this end ???
At this point I am confident we'll end up seeing that headline!

I wish Foxman's book gets published and he gets to deal with people picketing the events and exposing him and ADL further. Foxman needs to realize that this fiasco places him and his book under greater scrutiny than otherwise it would have been. One should ask ADL, Foxman, and the other three organizations on how much Turkish money it took to sell their morality.

It's obvious Foxman is getting heft support from the Turks. Sooner or later the Armenian Genocide Resolution will pass in Congress and until that day comes, even though it's inevitable, Foxman is trying to load his pockets. Met with his friend Elie Wiesel to discuss the issue of the Armenian Genocide and only at that point did he realize "ohh it was"??? We're not in the 1960's anymore and there information flow all over the world within seconds. It's not hard to see online about Elie Wiesel and his stance on the Armenian Genocide. For God's sake the man even went to the Jewish Government in Israel, and urged them to recognize the Armenian Genocide. Of course Foxman apparently also didn't know. Or maybe until yesterday he had a little fight with Elie Wiesel and wouldn't talk to him FOR 42 YEARSSSSS!!!! Can't wait until the day comes and these traitors of Humanity get what they deserve, including Foxman, who da F you think you are dismissing the Armenian people's losses ESPECIALLYYY since you went through something almost identical yourself. GOD WILL DEAL WITH THESE PEOPLE. FOXMAN YOU MAY THINK YOU CAN DECEIVE WITH CRAFTY WORDS AND INSULT THE 1.5 MILLION ARMENIAN GENOCIDE VICTIMS, BUT YOU CAN'T FOOL GOD. A SIMPLE QUESTION. IF BOTH ISRAEL AND U.S. BOTH AT THE SAME TIME RECOGNIZE THE GENOCIDE. TURKEY IS GOING TO CUT IT'S TIES WITH ISRAEL AND THE U.S. ??? ANYONE BELIEVING THIS IS PATHETIC. They threatened France over and over again if they officially pass resolutions on the Genocide. GUESS WHAT, THEY DID AND THERE'S EVEN MORE BUSINESS BETWEEN FRANCE AND TURKEY SINCE!!!!!!!!

Turkey says it wants to leave the matter to historians, but here is how it treats its own historians:

www.akcam.info 

What would the ADL do if Holocaust scholars were treated this way?

Where would the world be if Holocaust scholars were treated this way? 

Anyone remember this picture from a few years ago?:
http://pajamasmedia.com/upload/2006/07/kiss-1.jpg
http://static.crooksandliars.com/2007/01/the-kiss.jpg

Simply titled "The Kiss", it was George W. Bush showing his affection to Joe Lieberman. As we all know, this came back to haunt Lieberman in spades as this picture resurfaced again and again (including in float form) connection Lieberman to Bush, eventually pushing him out of the Democratic party.

Interesting picture here just published in a Turkish source.
http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=120271&bol...
Abe Foxman in an emotional embrace with Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan.
The Kiss II?

Scholar- Thank you for correcting the record. You should send a correction directly to Mr. Foxman through the ADL website. His total ignorance of the plight of Armenian-Turks is mind-boggling.

Moreover, even Turkish scholars such as Taner Ackam who dare to speak the truth about the Armenian Genocide are forced into exile and receive death threats on a regular basis. I met Mr. Ackam in April and was inspired by his noble quest to educate his countrymen and the world about the Armenian Genocide. He also makes a point to note that many Turks helped the ravaged Armenian victims to survive by hiding them in their homes and helping them to escape.

It is despicable that Turks like Mr. Ackam should have to live their lives in fear (much like Hrant Dink before he was gunned down, who compared himself to a dove, always looking this way and that way...not knowing when the evildoers would strike.)

The time has long past for Turkey to stand up and acknowledge its past, pay reparations and move on with some dignity. Turkish-Jews, Turkish-Armenians and other Christians and Kurds should likewise be treated with dignity and respect in Turkey.

Let's all be a bit more honest here. I think it's clear that Foxman issued his 'acknowledgment' statement on the Armenian genocide purely as a way of squelching the negative PR snowball that had started rolling. It was done purely for domestic consumption and to keep the lid on the entire controversy. Let's note that to date, not a hint of the issue has not appeared in the NY Times nor the Washington Post. Despite his talk w/ Elie Wiesel, who as a respected historian knows that it is important to call a rose a rose, Foxman then turns around and on the backside, reassures Turkey he meant no disrespect.

Can someone honestly discuss what the great fear is that is preventing reasonably intelligent people from honestly discussing this thing? It all has to do w/ money, money and more money. The real question is, where did the billions of dollars worth of Armenian property, business and banking interests go after the Armenians were destroyed in their own homes and on their ancient homeland? Admitting culpability for the genocide, at this point, is something that may embarrass modern Turks, and that is sad - but that is only the surface issue...at base is the fear that Armenians will ask for their homes, property or compensation. True - modern Turks are not responsible...that is for sure, but their government is...and, they are the only one who can clear up this mess - the sooner the better. Without question, Turkey is mature enough to handle these truths....it can have a clear conscience that can only come about by putting this to rest once and for all. An apology would probably satisfy most in the Armenian community....issue it with heartfelt words and move on. This is long overdue.

disclosed in the following video.

 http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bp2.blogger.com/_N2zmj--SwU0/RwIeIf4RWII/AAAAAAAABT4/BgbkDTJ5FMA/s400/nuda_nazan_bayram_m.jpg&imgrefurl=http://hevallo.blogspot.com/2007/10/in-loving-memory.html&h=400&w=300&sz=23&hl=en&start=48&um=1&tbnid=V_qORVjOQUHBMM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=93&prev=/images%3Fq%3DAliza%2BMarcus%26start%3D40%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

www.truthring.org

As a concerned, aware Armenian I totally agree w/ what Murat says. He is right on target. I have been to Turkey several times (and actually love it there), talked w/ many Turks at all levels of society and have found them to be very open and reasonable, and in most cases, not just friendly toward Armenians, but highly respectful and appreciative of them. They want this craziness to stop. It's embarassing and counterproductive for all of us. Moreover, they understand and fully put the blame for the genocide cover-up on their government and the ultranationalist forces within it. Yes, there is a fear of massive property and other demands at the governmental level, but as Murat says....it is time to get past this and move towards the future with a clean slate. Turkey is mature enough to handle it. I too believe this is entirely possible because most Turks also believe it is possible and necessary. If only certain powerful elements within their government would stop exploiting and encouraging fear, hatred and violence, these hopes will be realized and will benefit everyone concerned. The last thing Armenians or Turks need is for someone like Foxman or the ADL to get in the middle of an event that does not involve or concern him or them, unless there's something he's not telling us. Of course, everyone should ask why he would do this - meaning why would he support a group of genocide deniers within the Turkish government? - and then dig deeply for the whole truth behind his manipulative, duplicitous actions. To this point, I seriously doubt that anyone is telling the truth about his words and actions.

Despite all the accusations about Armenians living under a cloud in Turkey, you should all know that in Istanbul alone there are 38 Armenian churches that are totally open....meaning, open with unlocked doors every day of the week...as are many other minority houses of worship, such as synagogues. Armenians can't even do that in the US. So, on many levels, the Armenians who are still living in their homeland live very good lives. It may not be perfect, but that goes for Turks and Kurds as well, but it's more Armenian than anyplace in the diaspora. You may then question the issue of free speech and expression in Turkey, but let's note that thousands of people came out for Hrant Dink's anniversary commemorations - not just in Istanbul, but all over Turkey and no one tried to stop them, not even the government. It is not the Turkish people who are closeminded or uniformed....they know the truth very well. Remember, it is a certain group within their government who is fighting, tooth and nail, to preserve a lie about their history. They can pay anyone to do their dirty work under the guise of being a super-Turk, especially teen agers.  It's very easy. Eventually however, all their efforts will fail and truth will prevail.  Despite the engagement of Foxman and the ADL, the rest of the world knows the truth, so he should stop embarassing his own people by promoting lies and acting clueless. That tactic doesn't work for Holocaust deniers and it doesn't work for him either.  

Jewish people above everyone else should be supportive of the Armenians!

If Murat wants to know what happened to all the Armenian property in Turkey after they were 'ethnically cleansed' by their own government, just turn to pg 274 in Taner Akcam's book, A Shameful Act. It may be difficult to read, but he makes it very clear what happened at that point. The properties owned by the indigenous Armenian population....the people who had lived in Anatolia since pre-historic times, was then appropriated by those who aided and abetted their expulsion and murder. This is the dirty little secret of the Armenian genocide that has been so conveniently swept under the rug for the past 90 years. Sad and shameful. An apology is the least that should be done by Turkey, and would be a huge step in healing a people who've spent nine decades attempting to recover from this horror show thousands of miles from their homeland. But the question remains, can or should the present government of Turkey issue an apology on behalf of the criminals of the CUP who hijacked the Ottoman government?  Maybe they should, but is it even possible when the same group is still deeply entrenched in the murky world of Turkish politics? I think it is highly unlikely that they will self-incriminate on this issue, so public humiliation is the only route. By refusing to call a spade a spade, Foxman is aiding and abetting one of the biggest lies of the last hundred years. What a wonderful legacy to remember him by. For this he's proud? Sounds like another very shameful act, if you ask me.

You shouldn't punish everyone for the acts of a few . . . unless they are all Christian or Jewish.   

ERDOÐAN SAYS ISRAEL~RS GAZA BLOCKADE UNACCEPTABLE

Today's Zaman
Jan 23 2008
Turkey

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoðan yesterday condemned Israel for
a blockade it has imposed on the Gaza Strip, saying the Palestinians
there are faced with a "humanitarian tragedy."

Israel blockaded Gaza on Thursday after rocket attacks by Palestinian
militants, halting fuel shipments. Three days later, Gaza's only
power plant, which provides electricity to about one-third of Gaza's
1.5 million residents, shut down. Under heavy international pressure,
Israel allowed fuel for the plant back into Gaza on Tuesday.

"Palestine is already an open air prison. People living in Gaza are
faced with severe difficulties in the supply of water, electricity,
medicine and food. These people face a humanitarian tragedy,"
Erdoðan told members of his ruling Justice and Development Party
(AK Party) at a weekly meeting in Parliament. "We have difficulties
in understanding this [blockade]."

He also criticized Israeli officials for remarks linking the blockade
to rocket attacks, saying they fail to explain how many Israelis died
in these attacks. "It is not possible to accept such acts that punish
2 million people. It is not understandable to collectively punish a
community because some of them are doing wrong things."

This was the second time Erdoðan criticized Israel for its actions
against the Palestinians. Earlier this month, he said the United
States, not Israel, should man a barrier between Israel and Palestinian
territories and complained that even his car had been forced to wait
for half an hour while trying to cross to the Palestinian side after
talks in Israel during an official visit in the past.

Israel largely closed Gaza's crossings to all but humanitarian goods
in June after Hamas seized control of the territory.

Warning to Obama

Erdoðan also responded to US presidential candidate Barack Obama after
he pledged he would support Armenian claims of genocide at the hands
of the late Ottoman Empire if he wins the race. He reiterated that
Turkish-US ties would receive a serious blow if the Congress passes
a resolution recognizing Armenian claims of genocide.

"Everybody knows that passage of such a resolution would lead
to irremediable wounds in Turkey-US relations," Erdoðan said in
Parliament. According to the prime minister, such remarks stem
from lack of sufficient information on the part of the presidential
candidates about US foreign policy in general.

"These unfortunate remarks by a presidential candidate risk casting
a shadow on our relations," Erdoðan said. "Our relations should not
be sacrificed due to slander campaigns by certain lobbies."

Obama pledged to support passage of the resolution, shelved twice in
the US Congress under pressure from the administration, which feared
it risked spoiling ties with NATO ally Turkey, in a letter sent to a
leading American-Armenian group, the Armenian National Committee of
America (ANCA).

Obama wrote in the Jan. 19 letter that he had a "firmly held conviction
that the Armenian Genocide is not an allegation, a personal opinion,
or a point of view, but rather a widely documented fact supported by
an overwhelming body of historical evidence."

"The facts are undeniable. An official policy that calls on diplomats
to distort historical facts is an untenable policy. As a senator,
I strongly support passage of the Armenian Genocide Resolution, and
as president I will recognize the Armenian genocide," Obama said in
the letter.

Last year, despite pleas from the George W. Bush administration,
the Committee on Foreign Affairs of the US House of Representatives
passed a nonbinding resolution that described the events of 1915 as
genocide. Nancy Pelosi, speaker of the House and an ardent supporter of
the Armenian claims, has so far not brought the resolution to the House
floor after a strong appeal from the Bush administration that passage
of the resolution would deeply harm relations with NATO ally Turkey.

Deep state gang planned to kill Pamuk

Since the detainment earlier this week of dozens of members of a crime gang, part of a shadowy network that masterminded many attacks in Turkey whose perpetrators have not been found, an investigation into the gang has revealed more of the group's plans, newspapers reported on Thursday.

The gang was plotting to kill Nobel Literature Prize-winning author Orhan Pamuk and had already hired the hit man to do the job, the investigation found. Thirty-three suspects accused of being part of the gang, which calls itself Ergenekon, were detained by the İstanbul Police Department's counterterrorism unit in İstanbul and other parts of the country in dawn raids on Tuesday, the culmination of an eight-month operation. The police have been observing the actions of the suspects for three-quarters of a year as part of an investigation into a house full of explosives and ammunition found in a shantytown in İstanbul's Ümraniye district in the June of 2007.

The investigation has found that the gang is linked to a clandestine phenomenon referred to as the "deep state" in Turkey that stages attacks using "behind-the-scene" paramilitary organizations such as Ergenekon to foment public opinion according its own political agenda. Ergenekon is the title of a legend that describes how Turks came into existence.

This particular gang is suspected of involvement in a number of political attacks on individuals and institutions, including the murder of ethnic Armenian journalist Hrant Dink. At least eight of the suspects are retired from the Turkish Armed Forces (TSK).

The suspects, who include retired military generals, journalists and underground bosses, have not yet been charged and are still under interrogation, but the police found a list of people the gang had planned to assassinate, including pro-Kurdish Democratic Society Party (DTP) deputies Ahmet Türk, Leyla Zana and Sebahat Tuncel; Diyarbakır Mayor Osman Baydemir; Nobel Prize-winning author Pamuk; and journalist Fehmi Koru, who is also a regular columnist for Today's Zaman.

Pamuk was their next target

Charges of denigrating Turkishness had once been brought against Pamuk over remarks he made to a Swiss newspaper about the number of Kurds and Armenians killed in Turkey. Pamuk was apparently the next planned assassination on the gang's list. According to daily Posta, Ret. Maj. Gen. Veli Küçük, who was detained in Tuesday's raid, had contacted through Muhammed Yüce -- a former army sergeant -- Ret. Col. Fikri Karadağ, requesting he find them a hit man to do the job. Karadağ is the leader of the ultranationalist Association for the Union of Patriotic Forces (VKGB), whose leaders are already under detainment facing several charges for crimes from theft and felony to blackmail and extortion. Also, at least two VKGB members were detained in relation to the Ergenekon investigation in Diyarbakır on Wednesday. The hit man they found was identified by the police as Selim A. The Ergenekon crowd found YTL 2 million -- the pay promised to Selim A. -- and a Glock revolver for the assassination. Selim A. was captured after the police found out about the plan by monitoring phone conversations. In addition to Selim A. and Küçük, Karadağ and Yüce were also detained in Tuesday's operation.

An unresolved murder resolved?

Police have found evidence linking the Ergenekon gang to the assassination of Necip Hablemitoğlu, shot to death in 2002 after concluding that residents of the Bergama region campaig