Fri, Dec 05, 2008

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Jewcy Book Club

This week:
and My Jesus YearDumbfounded
Welcome Authors
Benyamin Cohen
&
Matthew Rothschild
who are posting all week.
Coming up:
  • 12/08:
    Seth Greenland

The Phystics

naftali

The timeline, storyline, of the Torah takes 2488 years.  That is, from the completion of the universe,
the creation of Adam and Eve, until Moses death, 2488 years.  There are, within the first six days,
questions of course.  Some read those
passages literally and think those six days took what we consider to be six
days.  Others choose to read the passages
precisely and compute the actual elapsed time to be closer to 10 to 20 billion
years.  I’m a believer in reading
precisely as opposed to literally, just to makes things clear right away. 

 

Nachmanides read and commented on the same passage and
explained what he was taught as the real interpretation—and so in the 13th
century he explained, with no fanfare, what is essentially the Big Bang
Theory.  So, he asks, why doesn’t Gd just
explain it more clearly (translation: 
why doesn’t He just state outright the Big Bang Theory)?  Because in the future, Nachmanides writes,
when nations dispute who owns the land
of Israel, the Torah will
be the proof.  I, Gd, created the
universe and it belongs to whoever I say it belongs to.  Not bad work, sensing life and knowledge 700
years into the future.  And I bring this
up to give a whiff of science to what can be a most unscientific way of
thinking and reading.

 

The Torah is given near the end of the Torah, in 2448.  Being a people who respect a good question,
the question is why not sooner?  Why not
give it to Adam, to Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob? 
There are opinions that carry more weight than mine, a group generally
defined as All Other Opinions, but I think it’s because Gd is saying in bold
letters and italics that you really have to know things before you can pick up
the Torah and understand it.  You have to
know a lot, and it’s going to take some serious time.  That’s what’s happening in the 2487 years,
the great folks chronicled are spending their time learning things.  And we don’t find out what they’ve been
learning until Gd begins to teach it. 
That’s what the word Torah means, Teaching.  And the method of teaching is indirect, not
at all like the instructions for assembling a swing set.

 

Except that the expectation is that the swing set will be
built, and some pretty rough consequences will follow if it’s not built.  Fear not, say the rabbis, the mystics, and
the Kabbalists, we shall explain it all to you—and they have done such a
wonderful job that a typical Jew, fastened to a theism-meter, will lean toward
atheism.  In other words, after all the
words of those teaching the meaning, they are accomplishing the opposite of
what they intend, convincing folks that there is no meaning. 

 

The believers end up creating non-believers.  So, of course, it stands to ironic reason
that the non-believers should help to create believers.  Exit rabbis, mystics, and Kabbalists, enter
Phystics, physicists who actually explain the Torah better than the
rabbis.  They don’t intend to do
this.  But they do this.  I suspect there is a Grand Joke afoot.

 

Beginning the twentieth century, Max Planck, Albert
Einstein, Arthur Compton (now we’re up to the 1920s), John S.
Bell (1960s), Edward Lorenz (1961), Mitchell Feigenbaum (1974),
and Benoit Mandelbrot (1977) completely turned the universe upside down,
regarding the real life relationship between cause and effect.  Well, actually they turned it right side up,
since our default common sense is upside down. 
But it’s okay, because we see things the same way Isaac Newton saw them,
back in 1688.  Aren’t we the modern ones? 

 

In other words, how we think
things should go, how we plan for things to work—more often than
not, our plans fall apart, and things don’t go as we expect.  That’s because we think in linear terms, we
think that cause and effect happen directly, pool cue ball hits the triangle of
balls, direct, geometric, measurable cause and effect.  Nice, orthodox Newtonians we are.

 

And so, here is a brief, no way to do justice to, summary of
the new discoveries of cause and effect, which, if you apply these discoveries
generously over your reading of the stories and laws of the Torah, should actually
help it to make sense and become logical. 
(Do not proceed any further if you still think the world is flat.)

 

Max Planck and the
Quantum Leap
—things don’t change gradually. 
They don’t go through small modification over a period of time, even
billions of years. They simply jump to the next level, skipping every
conceivable step in between.

 

Albert Einstein and
Space-time
—there’s no nothing out there. 
There’s no nothing anywhere.  But
everywhere there is a fabric of space-time, flexible, and changeable, like a
big curtain with bends and grooves. 
Remarkably, for each person, who sees it from a different perspective,
it is in fact different from every perspective.

 

The Compton Effect
(won the Nobel for this)—that X-rays (which everyone just knew were waves) will behave as either particles or waves,
depending upon how you want to see it. 
Do not interpret this as you see what you want to see.  He is saying that the physical world around
you behaves differently according to
the way you are.  Compton said that this principle applies to
all forms of energy, since Einstein showed the same effect with light (which
everyone knew were waves).   Changing how you see things, knowing what
you want—not at all easy tasks.  I
believe he’s touching on Karma here.  Just
brushing up against it.  Barely.

 

Bell’s Theorem—Things
haven’t even begun to get weird yet.  Now
they get weird.  Two things, particles in
this case, joined together and then split apart will change the same way
simultaneously…simultaneously…no…matter…how…far…apart…they…are.  This would have even blown Einstein’s mind.  No Matter How Far Apart They Are.  Even light years.  Flush the pool table.  It’s gone. 
Cause and Effect are indirect.

 

Chaos Theory (Edward
Lorenz)—
Very simply, if you drop a pebble in a brook you will get a
Tsunami.  Get used to it.

 

Chaos Theory
(Feigenbaum)
—could easily be named Not Chaos Theory.  All of the random events and shapes around
you (like the growth of trees, the shape of mountains, your system of arteries
and nerves) aren’t random.  They are
behaving according to mathematical equations. 
Feigenbaum actually began to discover those equations.  If you feed different values into the
variables, and graph the outcomes, you get Norman Rockwell-like pictures of
trees and mountains, clouds, basically everything not man-made.  Think how great this would look on 3-D graph
paper.

 

Chaos Theory
(Mandelbrot)—
The whole is greater than the sum of the parts?  The whole is equal to the sum of the
parts?  Except that there are no parts,
just microcosms of the whole.  The whole
is made of microcosms of the whole.  This
is demonstrated in fabulous psychodelivision in a group of pictures called the
Mandelbrot Set, and laid the groundwork for the field of fractal geometry.

 

Happy 21st century.  I didn’t even scratch the surface. 

 

 

 

    


 

dr. dave


the last thing we physicists need is more pseudo-mystical readings of quantum mechanics. in fact, the midterm paper for the quantum mechanics class i'm teaching right now is going to be for students to write a paper debunking just this sort of misappropriation of the language of modern physics for this or that dubious spiritual end.



naftali

naftali


That's okay.  You've got to teach them to honor the lines of the discipline.  But you are describing things that have been talked about in other ways for thousands of years.  Is there a harm in seeing science as helping us to understand other 'non-scientific' subjects?  You aren't telling them not to talk to anyone other than other physicists, are you?  I'm saying there can be a dialogue, and I think it would be a good thing.

Besides, are you making them argue against Gary Zukav's old book, or Capra's? 





naftali

naftali


So, let me just be clear about this.  You're teaching a science class, and for their midterm report you are telling your students what conclusions they have to reach?  And you don't see the irony in this?

Here's another one--your discipline is searching for meaningful and important things about the nature of the universe, and you think it's a bad thing that others are interested and agree that you in fact are finding meaningful and important things about the universe?

I don't know, if I were teaching physics I'd probably be doing the opposite, teaching my students that our field is finding some magnificent things that have great significance for humankind.  I'd be Brian Greene's best friend.  I'd encourage them to talk with people from all departments, even talk religion with folks--because as a scientist, you never know when that moment of inspiritation will come. 

Dr. Dude, in the last century, you guys have pulled off a full-scale scientific revolution (I should capitalize that, a Scientific Revolution)--I'd try to publicize the heck out this.  I think everyone should know about it and intellectually live in this universe, just like the change from believing the world is flat to believing it's round.

Turned into about three points, didn't it?

 

 





JewcyCraig

JewcyCraig


I don't see how telling the students to prove how to sniff out scientific language that is being used inappropriately is at all "ironic." He didn't say it was a "research paper", and he didn't say it was a paper dealing the feasibility of the infeasible or anything mystical like that.

The whole point of this stuff is that these theories are just made and proven wrong, one after the other. It's, like, the crux of science. Dr. Dave's right in line with accurate scientific philosophy it seems to me. This is in comparison to the offense you seem to be taking with his response to your work. It looks to me like you've made a number of postulations and vague assertions (...like, the Compton affects shows that x-rays -- photons -- behave as particles and as waves -- like photons -- and this somehow means that you get either response depending simply on "how you want to see it"? Get a grip!) and balked when they've been questioned because it inhibits discussion.

The work has been done. It's tempting to read half an axiom, extrapolate the rest, and then get excited about its implications, but what are you going to do with it? I'd recommend somebody do a follow up study if I didn't know it'd already been worked out.





naftali

naftali


No, that's not what I said at all. There's nothing wrong with linguistic analysis, but what he did say was that he wanted them to reach a certain conclusion. I found that to be ironic in a science class where you're supposed to examine the data before reaching the conclusion. The question is whether scientific language must be taken literally or can be applied to other lines of thought. It's a long discussion. My feeling is that it can be applied in other areas.

It's quite possible, given the work or Gary Zukav or Fritjof Capra, or the many other writers that have followed in their footsteps, that the findings of the New Physics do generalize to other areas of life. It's possible that research will find that these theories do clear up many anomalies in other disciplines. I think that they do. But there is certainly lots of room for discussion. The discussion isn't over, it hasn't even begun in earnest. This is what I would like to see.

Dr. Dave certainly is in line with some scientific philosophy, but not all of it. It's not in line with Thomas Kuhn or Paul Feyerabend or Michel Foucault. These are not marginal thinkers in the field of the Philosophy of Science. Nor is it in line with James Burke.

I'm not taking offense. But the assertions that I made, I can footnote those if need be. They aren't my assertions. It is my language, but not novel interpretations of the findings. The quote you used, followed by the "Get a grip" comment was a paraphrase of Gary Zukav's summary in the Dancing Wu Li Masters. And I supplemented that by going to Wikipedia, which is very good for some things.

Even though you might think that all of the New Physics might be proven wrong, and science does move on--Physics isn't moving backwards. They aren't returning to the Newtonian Universe, any more than we will once again believe that the earth is flat, or that the sun revolves around the earth.

And it happens, quite to my delight, that these findings over the last 110 years seem to be quite enlightening when reading and trying to understand the Torah. I'm not at all saying I have answers. I've said that I have found studying the Talmud to be an enlightening experience--and that my understanding of how to study it entails a never ending conversation.

So, no, there won't be 'answers', just a lot of discussion. And I'd like to thank both you and Dr. Dave for commenting on the essay. That's how a discussion starts. And you can see from just these comments, there are a lot of directions the discussion can go. It's all good, unless someone starts cussing. But that won't be me.

Actually, if it's all right, let me ask you if you could restate your last paragraph. I 'm not sure if I caught your point, and I'd like to make sure I understand.

And if I was caustic, then I apologize for that.