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The Reedited Talmud Mas. Berachoth 10b and on.

MISHNAH. BETH SHAMMAI SAY: WHEN IN HIS HOUSE EVERY MAN
SHOULD RECITE [THE SHEMA] SITTING, AND WHEN WALKING BY THE ROAD EVERY MAN
SHOULD RECITE WALKING AS IT SAYS, WHEN THOU SITTEST IN THY HOUSE AND WHEN THOU
WALKEST BY THE WAY. IN THE EVENING EVERY MAN SHOULD RECLINE AND RECITE [THE
SHEMA], AND IN THE MORNING HE SHOULD STAND, AS IT SAYS, AND WHEN THOU LIEST
DOWN AND WHEN THOU RISEST UP.

BETH HILLEL, HOWEVER, SAY THAT EVERY MAN SHOULD RECITE IN
HIS OWN WAY, AS IT SAYS, AND WHEN THOU WALKEST BY THE WAY.

WHY THEN IS IT SAID, AND WHEN THOU LIEST DOWN AND WHEN THOU
RISEST UP? [THIS ACCORDING TO HILLEL MEANS] AT THE TIME WHEN PEOPLE LIE DOWN
AND AT THE TIME WHEN PEOPLE RISE UP [THE SHEMA SHOULD BE RECITED]. WHY THEN IS
IT SAID, AND WHEN THOU SITTEST IN THY HOUSE.

R. TARFON SAID: I WAS ONCE WALKING BY THE WAY AND [the time
came to recite the evening Shema so] I RECLINED TO RECITE THE SHEMA’ IN THE
MANNER PRESCRIBED BY BETH SHAMMAI, AND I INCURRED DANGER FROM ROBBERS. THEY
SAID TO HIM: YOU DESERVED TO COME TO HARM, BECAUSE YOU ACTED AGAINST THE
OPINION OF BETH HILLEL.

‘When thou lie down’, this is one commandment, ‘and when
thou rise up’, this is one commandment, ‘When thou sittest in thy house’ this
is one commandment, ‘And when thou walkest by the way’ - this is one
commandment. Just as in general IN THE EVENING EVERY MAN SHOULD RECLINE AND
RECITE [THE SHEMA], AND IN THE MORNING HE SHOULD STAND, AS IT SAYS, AND WHEN
THOU LIEST DOWN AND WHEN THOU RISEST UP. So too every man should recite the
Shema ‘When thou sittest in thy house’ sitting, ‘And when thou walkest by the
way’ walking or travelling.

THE SAGES REPLIED, THE BETH DIN AT THAT TIME WAS NOT WELL
LEARNED IN LAW.

GEMARA. Beth Hillel cause no difficulty; they explain their
own reason and the reason [why they reject the opinion] of Beth Shammai. But
why do Beth Shammai not accept the view of Beth Hillel? Beth Shammai can reply: If this is so, let
the text say, ‘In the morning and in the evening’. Why does it say, ‘When thou
lie down and when thou rise up’? To show that in the time of lying down there must
be actual lying down, and in the time of rising up there must be actual rising
up. R. Joshua b. Levi says: There is here an analogy between lying down and
rising. Just as [at the time of] rising, the recital of Shema is next to
[rising from] bed, so also [at the time of] lying down, recital of Shema must
be next to [getting into] bed. (Talmud - Mas. Berachoth 4b) R. Joshua b. Levi
says: Though a man has recited the Shema in the synagogue, it is a religious
act to recite it again upon his bed. (Talmud - Mas. Berachoth 4b) R. Levi b.
Hama says in the name of R. Simeon b. Lakish: …let him recite the Shema. For
it is written: ‘Upon your bed’. (Ps. IV, 5.) (Talmud - Mas. Berachoth 5a) R.
Isaac says: If one recites the (evening) Shema upon his bed, it is as though he
held a two-edged sword in his hand. For it is said: Let the high praises of God
be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand. (Ps. CXLIX, 6).
(Talmud - Mas. Berachoth 13a)

BETH HILLEL, SAY THAT EVERY MAN SHOULD RECITE IN HIS OWN
WAY, AS IT SAYS, AND WHEN THOU WALKEST BY THE WAY. Beth Hillel tells you that
incidentally one recites also by the way. If this is so, why does it say ‘When
thou lie down and when thou rise up, when thou sittest in thy house and when
thou walkest by the way’? Our Rabbis
taught: Beth Hillel says that one may recite the Shema’ standing, one may
recite it sitting, one may recite it reclining, one may recite it walking on
the road, one may recite it at one's work. R. Papa said: If that were so, the
All Merciful should have written [simply], ‘While sitting and while walking’ or
‘in thy house and by the way’.

Come learn, R. Ariel says in the name of Beth Shammai: ‘When thou lie down’, this is one
commandment, ‘and when thou rise up’, this is one commandment, ‘When thou
sittest in thy house’ this is one commandment, ‘And when thou walkest by the
way’ - this is one commandment. Just as in general IN THE EVENING EVERY MAN
SHOULD RECLINE AND RECITE [THE SHEMA], AND IN THE MORNING HE SHOULD STAND, AS
IT SAYS, AND WHEN THOU LIEST DOWN AND WHEN THOU RISEST UP. So too every man
should recite the Shema ‘When thou sittest in thy house’ sitting, ‘And when
thou walkest by the way’ walking or travelling. Although there are exceptions:

It has been taught: ‘When thou sittest in thy house’: this
excludes a bridegroom. ‘And when thou walkest by the way’: this excludes one
who is occupied with the performance of a religious duty. It has been taught:
R. Hanania b. Akabya said, Scribes of books of the Law, tefillin and mezuzoth,
their agents and their agents agents, and all who are engaged in holy work
including sellers of blue are free from the obligation of prayer and tefillin and
all the (positive) commandments mentioned in the Torah (including the Shema).

This
confirms the words of R. Jose the Galilean who laid down: He who is
occupied with the performance of a religious duty is [at that time] free from
the fulfilment of other religious duties. R. Papa said: In the case of thy
sitting and thy walking (not in the performance of a religious duty) thou art
under the obligation (to recite the Shema).

How is it possible that R. TARFON WAS ONCE WALKING BY THE
WAY AT THE TIME OF THE EVENING SHEMA AND RECLINED TO RECITE according to the
opinion of Hillel: THAT EVERY MAN SHOULD RECITE IN HIS OWN WAY, AS IT SAYS, AND
WHEN THOU WALKEST BY THE WAY one may recite it sitting, AND he INCURRED DANGER
FROM ROBBERS. When R. Johanan said in the name of R. Simeon b. Yohai: The Holy
One, blessed be He, said to Israel, Even if you only fulfilled morning and
evening the commandment to recite the Shema, you will not be delivered into
[the enemy's] hand? (Talmud - Mas. Sotah 42a) Beth Shammai answered: R. TARFON WAS ONCE WALKING BY THE WAY AND
RECLINED. When he should have recited the Shema it in the manner of his walking
by the way. THEY SAID TO HIM: YOU DESERVED TO COME TO HARM, BECAUSE YOU ACTED
AGAINST THE OPINION OF BETH Shammai. But surely he knew the Scriptural verse,
‘and when thou walkest by the way’? It says ‘when thou walk’ and not ‘when thou
recline by the way’? How is it that R.
Tarfon did not know the teaching of Beis Shammai? I will answer ‘it was
taught: It once happened that R. Tarfon had not attended the Beth Hamidrash the
previous evening.

--------------------- 

See the original here  


MaxKohanzad


In the Messianic Era the

In the Messianic Era the Law will be according to Shammai

The Lubavitcher Rebbe explains that the Messianic Era has already started

and that the School of Shammai = Hassidism - particularly his own

- it's obviously way more complicated than that - but the point is still the same

 If we start to rework the Talmud according to Shammai / My take on Hassidism - things change

Let me know what you think/feel  





Marc Hessel


Re: Messianic Era

Well after getting discredited, and my character bashed today here on Jewcy, I think I'll at least have one good intellectual conversation here. Max I like your ideas, I am not too sure however about this one. I didn't formally study with Chabadnuk bocharim like you said to have, however isn't Adin Steinsaltz already doing this, as far as the rework/revision of the Talmud? I was myself, pretty interested in this notion as well. But may I ask what your personal perception of Chassidim is?

-M





MaxKohanzad


I was and am a 'Chabadnuk'

I was and am a 'Chabadnuk' of sorts!

anyways Steinsaltz is just putting grammer into the existing Talmud, I'm suggesting a complete editorial overhall.

I believe that we can reedit the Talmud using the words and logic of the Talmud to create a New Talmud?!

as i have done above.  





MaxKohanzad


please feel free to

please feel free to download my phd for my ideas of Hassidism for FREE here 





Marc Hessel


Interesting perspective...

Max,

You really are a radical! I like that though. A big proponent of mine is the ability to free think in various capacities. Correct me if I am wrong, but the major idea of the Oral writings stemmed from a long line of Rabim of whom were in their height of various Jewish philosophical schools of thought. In itself, I view the Talmud as one big syllogism in effect, relating directly to the understanding of Human Reasoning and rational thought using a traditional Jewish perspective that involves introspection and metaphysical analysis. I will read over your thesis, and get back with you in a few. Thanks

-M





Marc Hessel


Sorry, but to digress

Sorry, but to digress briefly, I noticed also, awhile back that you wrote an article of Kabbalah and mysticism. I had wrote an outline of a perspective of mine concerning the Kabbalah, mysticism, and the Messianic era, I plan to expound upon this idea, however you might more than anyone I know to give me good pointers for making this into a book. Any feedback would be great.

-M





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