Sexuality and religion, that age-old taboo, even among supposedly more embodied Jews. Jordie, thank you for being the open, sexy, fearless women--and writer--that you are! Great piece.

As an ex-Catholic lesbian Jew who at least once a week seriously thinks about suing her old school principal (a nun) to pay her therapy bills, I sympathize with Ms. Gerson's dilemma... Women should be able to have it all: Judaism, spirituality, sexuality, sexual pleasure, and someone to experience that with. Thank G-d I'm a lesbian, which I assume makes the whole dating-while-feminist thing much, much easier!

Everybody has the following problem: "too many of the men I date make significant assumptions about me without getting to know me first."

If a man finds you attractive, he won't let the "rabbi" part interfere. If he doesn't pursue you, it's because he's not that into you.

Women don't like to marry down. They don't want to marry anyone less educated. As you are hyper-educated, like every other non-married hyper-educated woman, you're going to have a hard time. From 18-22 is the best time for a woman to find a husband. After a woman passes her mid-twenties, her stock starts going down. Just look at the rape rates. Females 12-25 get raped. After that, not so much.

no one "likes to marry down" and what do rape statistics have to do with anything?!
i'm all for the well-educated, spiritually advanced, sexually awakened rabbi -
three cheers for you, rabbi gerson!
i love knowing that my kids could grow up in a world where rabbi doesn't mean condascending keeper of the book.

I really like this piece. Funny, smart and eloquent. And the photos and pics are hilarious. Please publish more of her writing.

Great piece.

Pretend you're a stewardess - worst case, you might have a little fun...

Amazing, Amazing piece.
Did you ever though that there is maybe a little bit of your fear that is radiated to your date when you announce “I AM A RABBI”

Here is something small for you from the other side.

“I am a Rabbi” she said, waiting for my respond.

The only thing that was common between us was that we were Jews,
We were different and my question was, is the gap too big to get to the other side?
There were many things standing in the middle of the way between us, but not one of them was the career choice, “Talit”( praying shawl), “Kipa” or that she was a Rabbi.
She is a teacher, a “Torah” teacher, Is there any different besides that the school principal is GOD. :-).
Was it a BIG DEAL?
I really don’t know where did the question came from, we both woke up in the morning, brush our teeth put something on and run to the subway not before going in the delly buying a sandwich with “who knows” what is inside, after rolling the eyes to the sandwich man for not making it as we request on a English muffin.
Nothing was different. Nothing is different. Nothing.
She is a she.
I am I.
And we are-
Together.

I think a follow up article is in order regarding how Israeli men react differently than American men when you drop the "R" bomb.

Anita Anita, how do you suppose Israeli men would react differently to a female rabbi? More frigid or more open-minded? I think, for Israeli men, the salient category is likely to be "receptive American woman" rather than "rabbi," so my bet is that they'd be refreshingly open-minded, very receptive to setting the religious/spiritual issues aside, or even ignoring them altogether.

Anita and Joey: In my experience the salient categories for Israeli men are the same as they are for most men: attractive, smart, funny, kind, fun, etc. The difference with Israeli men (at the risk of making a gross overgeneralization) is that they - for better or worse - tend to have little to no context for Liberal Rabbis/Reform Rabbis/female Rabbis. That's the first (non) issue - they have very little baggage with Liberal Judaism and female Rabbis. They're not scared of us, because they can't quite conceive of us. (Which is both a blessing and a curse). The second is that many of the secular Israeli men I know have either dated or been friendly with very religious women in the past - observance is more 'normal' in Israel than it is here - so that what constitutes "religious" for them is different than what constitutes "religious" for an American Jewish man who went to public schools, was raised in a Reform Synagogue, last encountered Judaism in a real way at his Bar-Mitzvah, and is ambivalent about being Jewish to begin with. So at the risk of making another gross overgeneralization, I think Israeli men tend to be more comfortable with their Jewish identities, less worried about seeming "too Jewish" via who they're dating and perhaps - perhaps - less preoccupied than Americans (or New Yorkers) about the career path of their significant other. Dates with Israelis - perhaps for cultural reasons - are some of the few dates I've gone on in New York that haven't felt like job interviews. My Israeli boyfriend, when pressed to talk about my career choice likes to say, "Look - if it makes her happy - I'm happy. What she does is her business, not mine. I'll love her no matter what she does." (Though it probably doesn't hurt that I speak Hebrew, want to raise Jewish children, and every now and then like to have lots of friends over for Shabbat dinner.)

And that, as Joey says, IS refreshingly open-minded.

**All of this is based on anecdotal evidence, of course.

Funny, sharp, exotic, dangerous. Like when you buy a can of corn and when opened, find a grenade inside. With a pin removed.

Makes me lament my age probably for the first time in my life :)

Have a good life, good woman. 

I'm a Harvard graduate with advanced degrees, a feminist political viewpoint, and a lesbian wife. I'm "hyper-educated." I don't have soon-to-be-Rabbi Gerson's problem, as I've already found someone with whom to both have sex and spend my life. But I understand her frustration, and I do think it's an interesting dilemma--how to be sexual and "religious," how to navigate becoming a rabbi and finding a mate--a dilemma that is not one "everbody has."

Lukeford's suggestion that men who reject the author do it because they're "not that into" the future rabbi is a cheap cop-out here, one that refuses to acknowledge the continuing double-standard against women, who are expected to be either Madonna or Whore, nothing in between. Sexy girls are great... but are they marriageable?

As for the charge that "women don't like to marry down," I don't even know where to begin. And the rape comment? Basically, luke read the article, saw its criticism of a cultural phenomenon played out by men (most men are probably completely unaware of the double standard they are holding women to), freaked out, and got defensive... in a really offensive way. "After a woman passes her mid-twenties, her stock starts going down. Just look at the rape rates. Females 12-25 get raped. After that, not so much." Young women are hot; older women are not---is that your point, lukeford?

Let's hear less angry replies and more from the future rabbi. I'd join her shul any day.... how much are dues?

 I do not think there is such a thing as "hyper-educated". Even in double quotes. But there is such thing as being hyper-self-involved. :)

I don't think "I'm so educated"'s comments were self-involved, Alex (unless that was me you were referring to, and I'll defer to the critique. This is a first person piece, after all.) I thought her comments were thoughtful and accurate, and that Luke Ford's comment was a total cop-out. (To say the least...the misogyny was stomach-turning. Who cites rape statistics to make the point that a woman's worth depends on her age and/or appearance?)

In any case, my shul is dues-free, Educated, if you live in New York City. I work at NYU. Feel free to stop by any Shabbat.

Jordie:

"I thought her comments were thoughtful and accurate, and that Luke Ford's comment was a total cop-out." - Not only I totally agree with this part, I also think you are much too kind to the pig. The guy needs to be kicked in the ass by any self-respected man who finds himself at the kicking distance. I never reacted to it myself, because there was no intellectual value there, just skatological. And I don't throw my perls before swines.

But I do believe what I said about "hyper-educated" in principle.  May be I in her particular case I am wrong. When you meet her in NYC, you will see. And then you can tell me. :) 

Alex and Jordie, I was being ironic. I don't think there's such a thing as "hyper-educated." Lukeford made that term up as an insult, which I found ridiculous. So I took the term and used it myself, much like the term "queer." See you in NYC.

A couple years ago there was a study about female rabbis and their love lives. It probably wasn't called that. At any rate, it was by Steven M Cohen, and the findings were as follows: women who didn't get married before, or during Rabbinical school were likely to stay unmarried. Something like 80% of them never married. Not that I am suggesting that you'll die alone, just that female rabbis have a harder time of dating.

Also, I meant to sign in, but apparently Jewcy hates me.

Annie
http://jewbiquitous.blogspot.com

At least I'll have a job I love. And goals and dreams beyond snagging a husband. (Thanks, Mom!)

Steven Cohen didn't honestly do a study on this, did he? Come on. Sounds a little too much like the line we've been fed that women over 40 who've never been married are more likely to be killed by a terrorist than get married someday (which was debunked earlier this year by the magazine that initially published it). And that if they stay unmarried, their lives somehow have less worth, and they're not as happy. (Also proven wrong by the studies which say that being married might make life easier, but single women tend to be happier than married women.)

And if he did do a study, it seems to me that it would be in keeping with all the other Jewish population studies that have been done of late, which are unnervingly preoccupied with whether or not Jews of my (our) demographic are getting married to each other and making Jewish babies.

In any case, I know quite a few female Rabbis who were married (or found life partners) after ordination. 

Steven M. Cohen and Judith Schor, “Gender Variation in the Careers of Conservative Rabbis Ordained Since 1985,” Rabbinical Assembly, 2004

And yes, anecdotally, I too know female rabbis who have married, but they do so in a much smaller number than their male counterparts, or than non-ordained women.

I cannot, however, argue that the study isn't preoccupied with marriage and procreation, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have merit. I am not arguing that their life is any less worthwhile, but that it proves that men and women still haven't gained equality in the Jewish professional sphere.

Annie

Jordie -

 Can I humbly ask you to give us the source of the study(ies) that you quoted: "but single women tend to be happier than married women"?  Because then, the correct (mathematically at least) statement for women would also be - "If you want to have a better chance to be happy, you should stay unmarried". That goes (may be sadly) against everything I saw anywhere my life took me. Also, IMHO, that statement has to have an age variable. 

Also, I think, saying that S. Cohen was dishonest in his study is a little bit too rush for a woman of your level of training in reasoning. I am not saying that you are wrong, just that these kind of accusations, however mild the tone, require at least an attempt of substantiating, don't you think? :)

Educated -

Gotcha. Me culpa. Stupid old man, me! :) 

Thoughtful nuanced remarks, but off the mark. I think. From the perspective of being a middle-aged chick with spouse and 3 kids, as well as being a rabbi wannabe (not pulpit), this is it: Jordie has bumped up against the fundamental closemindedness of the way we live as a society, and the concommitant dishonesty of people with themselves (and hence, others). It's hard to hook up meaningfully with people because so often people have a very hard time facing themselves, their motivations and their fears squarely. As such, communicating with others is inhibited by all sorts of barriers to real understanding (first with themselves, and by extension to others). Jordie's first challenge is to find a really honest guy (not just attractive - there are lots of those). I've met 3. I think.

Don't get me wrong. I think there are good people out there. Finding and cultivating and reaping genuine honesty is the Mount Everest. B'hatzlacha yaldati .

If you are not shomer this and you are not shomer, that what exactly are you shomer? Exactly what are you going to teach, Jewish civilisation as interesting intellectual material, like the ancient Greeks? Are you classifying the Jewish God with Zeus, a cult no longer practised?

I am BT. I advise that. You will have a home and children. You will have to sweat bullets for it, but you are obviously strong enough for that.

Otherwise, you will die a highly competent dater with many wonderful friends. Is that enough for you? Maybe it is. It's a free country. But empty arms and beds hurt. Careful. The party lines are false. Somebody has to say it, so I did. Your mother does not know what she is playing with, or sentencing you to. SHE is fine. SHE has you. Who do you have? Who will you have?

What can Daphna possibly mean by "hook up meaningfully with people"? There is 1) hook-up, which has nothing to do with meaning, just gratification, and there is 2) meaningful, which means... what?

When women and men use the machinery of courtship for mere amusement, they are playing with firearms as convenient tools for making holes in the barn door. They get a whole lot of nothing, and then they wonder why. Playing with heavy machinery in ways it is not designed for leads to getting hurt. If you just want a good time, don't be amazed that it is shallow. Of course it's shallow. It is supposed to be shallow. If anybody said to me, "I just want to date you, I don't want to get serious" as Jodie said, I would feel offended, though I might not show it. "What am I, not good enough to consider for a spouse?" I would think. Thanks, pal. Same to you. Do you think people, living human beings, are toys? Talking is fine in daylight, but dim lighting with lowered voices either means you are considering the person for marriage or you figure they have their uses for amusement and nothing more. How would YOU like to be treated like that?

I can't reply to all of these because I'm knee-deep in a parshanut paper and Radak is a little longwinded, but BT - I have a lot. I have a big family that loves me, a community of friends that I feel blessed by, mentors (many of whom are women clergy) that I respect and admire, and a loving boyfriend who is, Daphna, admirably and often painfully honest. (I'm pretty sure that's the Israeli part of him!) Admittedly, though, it took a while to find him.

I also have the privilege of full participation in the Reform Jewish community I inhabit. I can chant Torah. I can teach Torah. I can study Gemara with my male peers. I can be viewed as a Rabbi/nic student (though Annie is right, I still bump up against the institutionalized sexism of the Jewish world all the time.) by the communities that I serve and train in, and I can model - on my good days - for my female students at NYU - how they might find a place for themselves in a tradition heir to a history of sexism.

Alex, I poked around on the web for the study and can't find it, but I think it was in Psychology Today a few months ago. In any case, the point is not that I don't want to be married someday, (I would, and I'd also like to have children) it's that there are any number of things in my life that I aspire to, and that make me happy. Marriage and children is only one of them. And, BT, my Mom would love to see me married, too. But she'd also like to see me professionally fulfilled, doing work that I find meaningful and rewarding, that gives me a sense of purpose. She raised me to know I can want and do both, even if it's sometimes hard. She raised me to believe I always have a choice.

You may have to make hard choices. Will you be ready to decide what is most important if you can't have it all? I would like to point out that the family thing is also fulfilling and meaningful, and that the professional thing has its tedious moments. BOTH have their good aspects and negative aspects. BUT: there is a real textural, qualitative difference between them. Wife/mother is not just another thing people do with their time, among other concerns. Wife/mother is a personal matter, that goes deeper than professional engagement, which, of course, can change. If there were no rabbinic jobs open, at all, anywhere, and you needed to work, you would find yourself doing something else. It is just something you know how to do. Wife/mother goes with you no matter what the market is doing.

Your mother is kidding you that you can fit wife/mother in, insert it into a busy life that contains many pursuits. Did she do this? How did that play out? What hard choices did she make? How did that feel to her, and to others?

I wish one could have it all, and live to a hundred and fifty, and have beautiful hair forever, and never get a cold. Life is tougher than that, as you very well know.

Are you going to have a good time, rapping complicated God stuff - so heavy! - with the men, as the scarfed and snooded orthodox women shepherd their broods past the study room window, when you don't have any children, because the family thing was just a little more complicated than your mother admitted to, and it never quite came together? I am just concerned. I am not being snide.

Your mother, while sainted, I am sure, is a human being, not an angel. She already HAS a child. YOU. Just be careful that she is not living out her frustrated fantasies of community participation through you, from the SAFETY of her status as, very probably a wife, and very certainly a mother. Careful! SHE has nothing to lose! SHE is safe! YOU are not! YOU are at risk!

(Her only risk is not having grandchildren. You have NO IDEA how scarce JEWISH grandchildren are getting! But the oldsters don't think about that, ever.)

OF COURSE your charming mother MEANS well! But meaning well is no defense against error! I would ask you to LOOK AROUND with unbiased eyes and THINK about what it takes to bring new people.

Children take a lot. There are self-cleaning ovens and self-defrosting refrigerators but there are no self-raising children.

When you die, your children will ring your bed. They will be wonderful. You will say, I fussed, I bothered, I sweated, but I have PEOPLE to show for it. That is more than any other job could have produced.

Did both. She's a mom, and she's a pediatric surgeon. She did both. Raised kids (two) and healed them. 

As a female rabbi ordained by a major seminary (though based on my conversations with female colleagues who were ordained by other denominations, I don't think my experiences are that atypical), I can emphatically agree that being rabbi casts a long, long shadow on potential romantic partnerships. And this is definitely more true for females than it is for males.

My male classmates, bless them, are all married. Some paired off before entering school, while others found their mates during and after ordination. While some of their dates initially freaked out about the rabbi issue, every single one of them found women (all the men in my class were straight) who either cared about Jewish life or were willing to become more observant. For the women in my class, it has been a different story. Most, though not all, have eventually found loving spouses. Many, however, were forced to compromise in ways that my male colleagues just didn't have to--e.g. their mates are signficantly less/not at all religious, and many are far less career-focused/less economically viable than are their wives.

The essential problem? The lack of single Jewish males who are seriously engaged in non-Orthodox Jewish life. (The ones who do care tend to marry by their early 30's at the latest.) Once you hit your 30's, the number of men in this pool is extremely shallow--the average Jewish male, let's face it, just isn't involved. They may care about Jewish identity, but the very things you hold dearest--including a life focused on Torah, prayer, Jewish study, and helping to sustain a community based on Jewish values and practice--just isn't a priority for the vast majority of them. (Why they are not engaged in Jewish life is the subject of another treatise...) It's a classic values mismatch. As a result, the average Jewish male is either a) completely intimidated or b) freaked out when he meets a woman who happens to be a rabbi. (She talks to GOD! She is sexless! She is goodness incarnate!) Since he isn't involved in Jewish life and doesn't know others who are rabbis, he invariably places you in the "Other" category. (Of course, if he knew rabbis, he'd know that we swear, drink, have sex, and all the other things that normal people do.)

My advice? Do your darnest to find a mate (if that is your ultimate goal) while you are still in school. It will only get more difficult as you get older, for both religious- and age-related reasons. And realize, as sad as this may sound, that if he isn't related to or hasn't roomed with/hung out with a rabbi (or future rabbi, in the case of a childhood/college friend) the "Rabbi" barrier may be too great for him, no matter how attractive he may find you.

What kind of rabbincal student isn't Shomer Shabbos? Isn't Shmiros Shabbos the basis for Judaism?

Would this rabbi's husband, if she finds one, be a rebitzon?

Did she learn of the issur on sleeping around especially with goyim prior to enrolling in this program?

I wonder if Jordie's mom privately thinks that Jordie's hours, as a pulpit rabbi, will be a lot shorter and less grueling than hers were, as first a doctor then later, a surgeon. She probably thinks it's sweet her daughter will have a nice time... nobody is going to bleed to death if her daughter makes a mistake. And her daughter is obviously brilliant, beautiful, articulate and charming, so what's the problem?

Sure. But Female Rabbi has been there and done that, and the news is to be a little careful, just the same.

Life is hard no matter what. This chasing happiness is ridiculous. Your mother may not have told you everything. They don't always, these mothers. I have heard of people being frustrated because they didn't go very far in life, but that's nothing to the howling anguish of the unmarried, and / or, the childless. You young women get such a teensy tiny little window of time. You don't know that. You are strolling along a precipice and you don't know it.......

Female Rabbi, please explain for me. I am spluttering and I am not making sense.

I'm married to a female rabbi. It's pretty amazin.

I really think that the key to success is finding someone who is pretty confident and not harboring a large ego. Some men can find it tough to have a woman outshine them, but who would want to be with one of them anyway?

There are lots of great Jewish men out there, and not all of them have a chip on the shoulder or are scared away by someone who can bless (and more important, curse to eternal damnation) people.

A Female Rabbi says higher religiosity correlates with earlier marriage age for men. She says that non-religious men in their thirties are also non-marrying. They are non - BOTH. I favor people going BT partly for this reason. I do not think there is a demographic future for less observant people.

Survival is the first test of any strategy. That ought to be obvious.

It won't matter how fulfilled we all were, when there aren't any of us any more.

The median age of American Jews is 37. Only one of their households in FOUR contains a person under 18.

A vigorous young woman, not worried too much about money because of her family's position, passionate about the Jewish future, should find a Jewish man who is interested in building a very large Jewish family, containing as many children, almost, as nature and God will give them. Now that would be interesting. I wonder if Jordie would do this. She would catch holy hell from her mother for 'not fulfilling her intellectual potential', but maybe she could stand her ground. She is very smart and very strong.

I know orthodox people who do this. They just had their sixth. They look nice on Shabbos and they do not appear to be starving in any way. They also look cheerful. Of course they do not have to buy video games and ipods and all that stuff for their children.

Perhaps division of labor is effective.

Perhaps the old gender roles worked. They worked off women's unpaid work, sure. But I am not excited about the prospect of all those empty chairs.

Non-orthodox Judaism produces an awful lot of empty chairs!

Having two children is not really a replacement birthrate, because there are always people who don't have any children. Those who can have children have to make up for them, for the community to survive, long-term.

People "get religion" about family and children in their middle thirties, or a tiny bit after that. Then, the fertility specialists are called upon, to fix the imprudences of the past.

Can you hear them weeping in the night, the childless who waited too long? I can.

I have seen a lot, and I never saw anything to beat raising children for interest, including intellectual interest.

I graduated a major rabbinical seminary as a single woman and headed to a large congregation in the suburbs. I met my bashert - on eharmony of all places! - but I described myself as a "community educator." The first few times he asked me more specifically what I did, I said what I did but not within the context (you know, I teach, I help the young and the old, etc). By the time I "came out" as a rabbi, by our 3rd phone conversation or so, we had so many other connections that it didn't matter. We're engaged and planning a November wedding. And he'll be called a Rebbetz-man in my shul! Keep the faith, as I did, and you'll find Mr. Right. I firmly believe that we need to find ourselves before we can find our bashert, and that rabb school is a journey of great discovery. B'hatzlacha!

One who reads this article has to ask a single simple all important question: Why become a Rabbi? Why do you want to be a Rabbi? If you don't understand or care about the most fundamental basis of what it means (accepting Shabbat as a covenant with God; adhering to what is right by Torah vs doing what feels good in the moment) then why sacrifice for it?

These men are responding to you in a certain way - a way which references their instincts that they expect a Rabbi to hold to a particular level of dignity and modesty. It seems that you might not respect yourself as a Rabbi as much as they respect you.

I write these comments with respect and kindness.

I don't get it...and neither does Ms. Gerson!!!

How does someone study Torah and Gemara with the goal of becoming a Rabbi and not be Shomer Mitzvot...not understand the importance of Taharat Hamishpacha...not have the desire to properly observe Shabbat...not understand the concept of tznius...not understand the intrinsic roles of men and women in a Jewish marriage...?

Obviously the men she was dating understood the inherent conflict that she epitomizes. Even though they themselves were not observant of Torah law, their neshamas gave them a sense that something was wrong...that it wasn't right to have an intimate physical relationship with someone who was supposed to be upholding the Torah, exemplifying and teaching others about these "laws."

Every Jew has different levels of observance based upon, among other things, desire and ability, to restrain their yeitzer hara. These men may not have any problem being sexual and immodest with another non-observant Jew, but the idea of defying the Torah with someone that is supposed to be espousing it is too much for even them to ignore.

As far the ability of many secular Israeli men to ignore these issues is understandable because they are used to living among Torah observant Jews and have desensitized themselves to the point that their neshamot are weakened to the point that they don't see it as being wrong or contrary to the essense of being a Jew.

By the way Ms. Gerson, "feminism" is "the principle that women should have political, economic and social rights equal to those of men"...it doesn't say anything about religion and for very good reasons. The Torah holds women in very high regard and generally on a much higher level than men, especially spiritually. Why try to be a man's equal when you are already his superior? Also, for a child, a father can never take the place of its mother and there can be no greater reward for a mother than teaching Torah to her own children and ensuring that they live in a Torah observant home.

On a final note...spirituality, sexuality and Judaism can only co-exist if you lead a true Torah lifestyle. Otherwise you are only fooling yourself and nothing will ever feel right and neither your soul nor your body will ever be satisfied.

Jordie -

It bothers me somehow that several writers implied that a Rabbi is somewhat ore than a regular human. I always thought that Rabbi is a teacher, not a priest. The word "clergy", as originally used in Christianity implies people of the Church (Ecclesia), people that are not just people or teachers, but in-betweens of heavens. It is still true in Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxies but not in Protestantism.

Can you tell us if in the traditional sense Rabbi is still considered to be just a teacher, or you guys sneaked yourself into a priesthood one day when we all were having dinner? (without re-building the Temple) :)

Also, Jordie, after all these letters about "reluctant Jewish men" I asked myself what would I feel if a girl that lit my candle would turned to be a rabbi. To be honest with you (and I apologize if I insult anyone's feelings) I, to my own surprise, was kind of puzzled if some of the less traditional physical expressions of passion would be faux pas here. This thought bothered me more than it should and I was not able to dismiss it lightly. I bet some of my fellow Y-chromosomed Jews must have the same problem.

Wow, lots of people putting words in my mouth.  So, I am Jordie’s mom and here is my response. First of all, I could not be prouder of my brilliant, articulate, funny, gifted and if I say so myself, stunningly beautiful daughter.  (Same goes for my other daughter)  No bias here.This will be true whether Jordie is a rabbi, writer, chaplain, wife, mother, and any combination of those roles.   I would never tell Jordie that having it all is easy.  Having it all means that work life must compromise with home life and visa versa.  Life is complicated whether we work, stay at home, or do both; whether we have children or dogs.  Balancing is a fact of life for most women I know.  Having children is truly the great joy of my life, but having the training and skill to save a child’s life is a gift for which I will eternally be grateful.  Knowing that I have made sick children well and healthy children healthier has not only enriched my life but taught my daughters that they have much to contribute not only to their families but to the greater community as well. To those who would deign to judge Jordie for her choices on religious observance, I have the same regard as I have for the person who thinks that there is one right way to practice, and he just happens to know what it is; the same regard I have for those who think we are going to hell for not believing in Jesus, and that we should be bombed for not believing in Allah.  I abhor religious intolerance whether it comes from Jews, Christians, Moslems or anyone else. Those intolerant Jews are the very reason your voice is so important Jordie.  Never give in to those who would tell you how to live or love.  Never stop standing up for your beliefs.  You are an incredible young woman and I am in awe of your gifts. For anyone else who in interested in what I have said or would say to Jordie, just ask me.  

Jordie's mom, it's just as I thought. You assume that because your daughter is a jewel that she cannot fall afoul of the traces. But she can. That is the horrible problem. There are anti-home, anti-baby, anti-everything factors and forces swirling about her, and you can't see them, and these factors apply even to the brilliant and the gorgeous, such as your marvelous daughter. Being a jewel used to protect against a lot, but it does not do that any more. Only real TIGERS get husbands and babies any more. You have to fight like tiger for these things. You have to go against every force, every trend, everything, to get these basic rights. Yes, a decent husband and at least one baby is a RIGHT. Some women don't want them, and that's their decision, fine. But the right to say no has cost the right to say yes!

Jodie's Mom, how many of your friends and relatives have Jewish grandchildren? Do you dare to deny that Jewish grandchildren are becoming a scarce luxury? Deny that if you dare. Look around. Think. Please do not blithely assume it will all be all right. It might not. As a doctor you know what triage is. We have to decide what is the lesser evil.

BT

First of all, this is a fascinating comments thread, and I'm thrilled to see the range of opinions represented here.  But the more I read, the more I wonder: Are the BT posters aware that Jordie's studying to be a Reform rabbi?  As far as I know, Reform Judaism doesn't require its leaders to be shomer Shabbat, and certainly doesn't ask them to be shomer negiah.  So how much of this is a debate about feminism, and how much is it denominational? 

Are there any observances expected by a Reform rabbi? I would think that Sabbath observance is essential to any sort of Judaism and that a least a Reform rabbi would keep Shabbos. If there is no observance required how is having a female rabbi as a wife any different than a teacher or social worker?

Neither. 1) We are not disputing feminism. We just want to keep it from spaying women. 2) It's obvious that Jordie is Reform. Yes, it was remarked that increased religious observance correlates with increased family life, but this discussion is not about religious correctness, it is about what modern life is doing to the marital and motherhood prospects of young women. Women who figure the forever-childless thing can never happen to them. Who have no idea how little time they really have, or what huge invisible obstacles are stacked against them. Female Rabbi outlined some of these invisible, deadly realities, bless her. I am BT, but Female Rabbi is a tzaddikes (saint) in my book, for doing that.

Jordie's Mom, you mention that Jordie should never stop "standing up for her beliefs". What in the world are you talking about? Jordie is not overflowing with positions and beliefs. She is a conscientious, committed and articulate student; she has a boyfriend, friends and a loving family. That's very nice, but it doesn't sound like a list of beliefs, with a capital B. Beliefs? What beliefs? You don't have many beliefs either. Or at least you are not mentioning them here. You have strong feelings, all right, but those are not beliefs. You are very clear you want your daughter to have a nice time, and not be critized by passing busybodies. That is natural in any loving mother, but it is not a belief. What you have is a bunch of assumptions, that have the flavor to you of a belief-system. They are based on a vague trust in the future and the goodness of things in general. This may not actually be a literal faith in God, but it is a cousin of it.

Well, fine. I have faith too, and I agree with you.

But I am concerned at what seems to be going on, on every block, on every street corner. This vague optimism of many middle-aged mothers, not just you, is having dire consequences for our future, in my opinion, so I am saying something.

The unspoken message is that early and fertile domesticity is somehow a disease to be avoided. That the fun is not inside the house, it is inside the office. What nonsense. Offices are just as tiresome as nurseries. And you can be fired. You can't be fired as somebody's mother.

You have a fabulously rewarding job, but most of the human race does not. NO JOB is a substitute for children. Your own life screams that from rooftops! EVEN YOU had not one but two children, in spite of being in your highly placed, well paid, enormously respected, and preciously useful position!

We denigrate wife / mother, than prattle on about the Jewish future. We leave the actual heavy lifting, of producing that future, to somebody else. The sucker down the street who didn't do well on the exams.

And we miss out on the joy.

Wife/mother is a culture. If you don't put it first, you don't have it. You can have and do all sorts of other things in addition to it, and while doing it, BUT you have to put wife/mother first when the crunches come, and they will come.

No, your sweetie does not have "pleeeenty of time". After all, we take years to marry, even when we meet the Right Person.

It really depends on what you mean by "keeping Shabbos."  Reform rabbis treat Shabbat as a special, separate day, but they still do things that count as "work," like driving to shul, so they're not shomer shabbas by the strictest definition.

Anon 11:52, I think one reason it's hard for women in their twenties to be too worried about the forever-childless thing is that many of us were raised by working mothers.  We've watched our own mothers juggle career and family, so why should things be different for us?  Do you think things have changed since the late '70s-early '80s, when our moms were starting to have children?   (By the way, if you wanted to give yourself an anonymous handle, like "BT," that would make it easier to tell it was you.)

Woman In Your Twenties: The point is how hard it is to get married at all. Your mom was married, so half her battle was already won when you met her. And as she lost touch with her unmarried friends, you never saw that side of things. Married and Unmarried are different worlds. You naturally assume that the life path from unmarried to married will happen to you, because it happened to your mother. These things are no more hereditary than scientific knowledge. Jordie's mom is a surgeon, but that doesn't make Jordie a surgeon. Just looking around, yes, it does look different today. In 1960, I read, half of all households were married with children, and now one fourth are. One in four. Does that scare you? The men you know, can they support three people? Themselves, mama, and baby? It is a complete myth that you just have the baby and go back to work. And the square feet to house them? Two bedrooms are in order, and there may be a need for three along the way. Yes, some people do fine sleeping in the living room, with baby growing up in the one bedroom, but perhaps that needs to change when the kid or kids get big.

The party atmosphere just gets weirder every year - partying men are not looking for wives.

It was never easy. The hidden conundrum is the man. He is the one who is the decider, who makes it all possible. Unless you think single motherhood is a gas.

B"H

The Typist
----------

To a mother who asked advice on becoming a typist to supplement the family income, the Rebbe wrote:

Don’t become a typist. You are a mother. Type, if you feel you need to in order to support your family. But don’t become a typist.

A Daily Dose of Wisdom from the Rebbe
-words and condensation by Tzvi Freeman
Menachem Av 18, 5767 * August 2, 2007

The demography police seem awfully concerned about when the future Rabbi Gerson chooses to have children.  The fate of the Jewish people, it seems, appears to rest on the reproductive choice of one woman.  Lost in all of this is that fact that she has dedicated her life to service to Judaism.  Did it ever occur to you that a charismatic Reform rabbi, Gerson has the potential to inspire hundreds of young Jews to remain affiliated with Judaism rather than drift away from the faith.  Or that Rabbi Gerson might inspire dozens of non-Jews to convert?   Truly, it seems that many of you are incapable of thinking outside the womb. 

If it was just Jordie, fine, but it's lots of people. SHE brought up the romantic difficulties. Look at the title of her post. And it's not like all is well in the land. All is disastrous in the land.