FEATURE
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Fowl Play | |
| Ethnic Cleansing. Crimes Against Humanity. Turkey and Stuffing? | ||
 by Robert Jensen, November 19, 2007
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After years of being constantly annoyed and often angry about the historical denial built into Thanksgiving Day, I published an essay in November 2005 suggesting we replace the feasting with fasting and create a National Day of Atonement to acknowledge the genocide of indigenous people that is central to the creation of the United States.
I expected criticism from right-wing and centrist people, given their common commitment to this country's distorted self-image that supports the triumphalist/supremacist notions about the United States so common in conventional politics, and I got plenty of such critique. But I was surprised by the resistance from liberals -- even some on the left, including a considerable number of my friends.
The most common argument went something like this: OK, it's true that the Thanksgiving Day mythology is rooted in a fraudulent story -- about the European invaders coming in peace to the "New World," eager to cooperate with indigenous people -- which conveniently ignores the reality of European barbarism in the conquest of the continent. But we can reject the culture's self-congratulatory attempts to rewrite history, I have been told, and come together on Thanksgiving to celebrate the love and connections among family and friends.
The argument that we can ignore the collective cultural definition of Thanksgiving and create our own meaning in private has always struck me as odd. This commitment to Thanksgiving puts these left/radical critics in the position of internalizing one of the central messages promoted by the ideologues of capitalism -- that individual behavior in private is more important than collective action in public. The claim that through private action we can create our own reality is one of the key tenets of a predatory corporate capitalism that naturalizes unjust hierarchy, a part of the overall project of discouraging political struggle and encouraging us to retreat into a private realm where life is defined by consumption.
So this November, rather than mount another attack on the national mythology around Thanksgiving -- a mythology that amounts to a kind of holocaust denial, and which has been critiqued for many years by many people -- I want to explore why so many who understand and accept this critique still celebrate Thanksgiving, and why rejecting such celebrations sparks such controversy.
These guys have no idea what's in store: Delicious, unsuspecting turkeysOnce We Know, What Do We Do?
At this point in history, anyone who wants to know this reality of U.S. history -- that the extermination of indigenous peoples was, both in a technical legal sense and in common usage, genocide -- can easily find the resources to know. If this idea is new, I would recommend two books, David E. Stannard's American Holocaust: Columbus and the Conquest of the New World and Ward Churchill's A Little Matter of Genocide. While the concept of genocide, which is defined as the deliberate attempt "to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group," came into existence after World War II, it accurately describes the program that Europeans and their descendants pursued to acquire the territory that would become the United States of America.
Once we know that, what do we do? The moral response -- that is, the response that would be consistent with the moral values around justice and equality that most of us claim to hold -- would be a truth-and-reconciliation process that would not only correct the historical record but also redistribute land and wealth. Such a process is hard to imagine in the short term. So, the question for left/radical people is: What political activity can we engage in to keep alive this kind of critique until a time when social conditions might make a truly progressive politics possible?
In short: Once we know, what do we do in a world that is not yet ready to know, or knows but will not deal with the consequences of that knowledge?
The general answer to that question is simple, though often difficult to put into practice: We must keep speaking honestly, as often as possible, in as many venues as possible. We must resist the conventional wisdom. We must reject the cultural amnesia. We must refuse to be polite when politeness means capitulation to lies.
I have not always been strong enough to meet even these basic moral obligations. Most of us in positions of unearned privilege and power would be wise to avoid pontificating about our moral superiority and political courage, given our routine failures. Can any of us not point to moments when we went along to get along? Have any of us done enough to bring our lives in line with the values we claim to hold?
Still, we need to help each other tell the truth, even when the truth is not welcome.
Perfect for the Hannukah bush: You can tweak a holiday all you want, but you can't change its meaningThe Illusion of Redefining Thanksgiving
Imagine that Germany won World War II and that a Nazi regime endured for some decades, eventually giving way to a more liberal state with a softer version of German-supremacist ideology. Imagine that a century later, Germans celebrated a holiday offering a whitewashed version of German/Jewish history that ignored that holocaust and the deep anti-Semitism of the culture. Imagine that the holiday provided a welcomed time for families and friends to gather and enjoy food and conversation. Imagine that businesses, schools and government offices closed on this day.
What would we say about such a holiday? Would we not question the distortions woven into such a celebration? Would we not demand a more accurate historical account? Would we not, in fact, denounce such a holiday as grotesque?
Now, imagine that left/liberal Germans -- those who were critical of the power structure that created that distorted history and who in other settings would challenge the political uses of those distortions -- put aside their critique and celebrated the holiday with their fellow citizens, claiming to ignore the meaning of the holiday created by the dominant culture.
What would we say about such people? Would we not question their commitment to the principles they claim to hold? Would we not demand a more courageous politics?
Comparisons to the Nazis are routinely overused and typically hyperbolic, but this is directly analogous. These are fair, albeit painful, questions for all of us.
Left/liberals who want to claim they are rejecting that European-supremacist and racist use of Thanksgiving and "redefining" the holiday in private clearly avoid the obvious: We don't define holidays individually -- the idea of a holiday is rooted in its collective, shared meaning. When the dominant culture defines a holiday in a certain fashion, one can't pretend to redefine it in private. One either accepts the dominant definition or resists it, publicly and privately.
Of course people often struggle for control over the meaning of symbols and holidays, but typically we engage in such battles when we believe there is some positive aspect of the symbol or holiday worth fighting for. For example, Christians -- some of whom believe that Christmas should focus on the values of universal love and world peace rather than on orgiastic consumption -- may resist that commercialization and argue in public and private for a different approach to the holiday. Those people typically continue to celebrate Christmas, but in ways consistent with those values. In that case, people are trying to recover and/or reinforce something that they believe is positive because of values rooted in a historical tradition. Those folks struggle over the meaning of Christmas because they believe the core of Christianity is experienced through the people we touch, not the products we purchase. In that endeavor, Christians are arguing the culture has gone astray and lost the positive historical grounding of the holiday.
But what is positive in the historical events that define Thanksgiving? What tradition are we trying to return to? I have no quarrel with designating a day (or days) that would allow people to take a break from our often manic work routines and appreciate the importance of community, encouraging all of us to be grateful for what we have. But if that is the goal, why yoke it to Thanksgiving Day and a history of celebrating European/white dominance and conquest? Trying to transform Thanksgiving Day into a true day of thanksgiving, it seems to me, is possible only by letting go of this holiday, not by remaining rooted in it. If there were a major shift in the culture and a majority of people could confront these historical realities, perhaps the last Thursday in November could be so transformed. But that shift and transformation are, to say the least, not yet here.
For too long, I ignored these troubling questions. To get along, I went along. I buried my concerns to avoid making trouble. But in recent years that has become more difficult. So, this year I want to acknowledge my past failures to raise these issues and commit not only to renouncing Thanksgiving publicly but also to refusing to participate in any celebration of it privately.
No stuffing: Abstaining from Thanksgiving is the only solutionMake People Comfortable by Engaging or by Disengaging
Obviously there are people in the United States -- indigenous and otherwise -- who do not celebrate Thanksgiving or who mark it, in private and/or in public, as a day of mourning.
Also obvious is that there are people who may not have a family or community with which they celebrate such holidays; it's important to remember that there are people on such holidays who are alone and/or lonely, and to them these political questions may seem irrelevant.
But for those of us who do get invited to traditional Thanksgiving Day dinners, how do we remain true to our stated political and moral principles? I think we have two choices.
We can go to the Thanksgiving gatherings put on by friends and family, determined to raise these issues and willing to take the risk of alienating those who want to enjoy the day without politics. Or, we can refuse to go to such a gathering and make it known why we're not attending, which means taking the risk of alienating those who want to enjoy the day without politics.
This year, I've decided to disengage and explain why to the people who invited me. These are people I love, yet who have made a different decision. My love for them has not diminished, and I trust the conversation with them about this and other political/moral questions will continue.
Once I make that decision, of course I also have the option of participating in a public event that resists Thanksgiving. I'm not aware of one happening in my community, and because of commitments to other political projects I didn't feel I could organize an effective event in time for this Thanksgiving Day. But on the assumption that others may feel this way, I have started thinking about what kind of public gathering could make such a political statement effectively, and in the future I hope to find others who are interested in such an event locally.
So, what will I do on Thanksgiving Day this year? I'll probably spend part of the day alone. Maybe I'll take a long walk and think about all this. I'll try to be kind and decent to the people I bump into during the day. I'll miss the company of friends and family who are gathering, and I'll try to reflect on why I've made this choice and why this question matters to me. I'll think about why others made the choices they made.
But this year, whatever I do, I won't celebrate Thanksgiving. I'm going to let that parade pass me by.
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Robert Jensen is a journalism professor at the University of Texas at Austin and board member of the Third Coast Activist Resource Center. His latest book is Getting Off: Pornography and the End of Masculinity More... |
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Helen Jupiter
Thank You.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Oh yeah--Amen and Testify, too.
Former Lurker
Amazing
I'm not sure if I have ever read a larger load of crap in my entire life.
But I'm sure you won't allow this post to stay. You obviously have no clue what history is, and you are not willing to seek the truth. You would rather have yourself remembered as some goofy, misguided martyr who won't celebrate Thanksgiving. Please move to Iran. You'll like it better there.
Daniel Huber
Right you are!
Right you are.
If WW2 had been won by Nazi Gemany we'ld have more problems of exactly that kind in Germany. Thank God Nazi Germany did not win the war.
But in Germany we do have some problems coming close:
It was the Nazi regime that officially installed holidays like Labour Day on 1st of May or Mothers' Day and the sort - obviously to appease workers and defenders of family values etc. But in reality the connected Nazi goals ran contrary. Few people are aware of the problematic origin of these holidays and still fewer take a clear stand like you do.
Leah
Thanks.
Eloquent and beautifully composed. Not only do I completely agree with you, but I find myself jealous of your ability to express it all. Thanks.
Meirasanya
Ok, so I'm british but...
I am a british-born native american (if that makes sense). My ancestors were all persecuted by the europeans, (my grandmother still refuses to visit us here in the UK), and I think the history of thanksgiving, though we don't have it over here, has been painted over with a nice rosy glow.
Anyone ever see the Addam's Family Values? I watched it as a kid and was overjoyed when Wednesday and Pugsley ruined the happy, joyous thanksgiving scene with the truth.
Oh, and the guy who calls himself Former Lurker - You say he doesn't want to look into the truth? What truth would that be? He is talking the truth! I assume you're american, so you've probably been brought up with the same rose-tinted view of how your people came to settle on America's shores - all polite and nice. Tell that to my people, who were driven out of their homes, forced to follow the Trail of Tears, some even murdered.
I applaud this guy - good to see someone stands up for what is right.
tisstupid
What Thanksgiving Is...
Thanksgiving is not a holiday to remember the dead, to recount the horrors of genocide, or to expound a diatribe on why you hate your country this week. Thanksgiving is a day of thanks giving to God, family, friends, and friends life and prosperity.
If anything, the first Thanksgiving was an attempt at peaceful coexistence with the Native Americans. In 1621 the first Thanksgiving with the Wampanoag tribe was a celebration of the first successful harvest after a long, harsh winter. Perhaps if things had followed that model we would not have the shame of the Trail of Tears, or the other countless stories of genocide as a stain on our history.
George Washington was the first president to proclaim Thanksgiving as a
national holiday in honor of the U.S. Constitution. He stated that the
holiday existed so that the people could thank God for, "affording them
an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their
safety and happiness" and for having "been enabled to establish
constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and
particularly the national One now lately instituted, for the civil and
religious liberty with which we are blessed..."
This means that
Thanksgiving is a day to appreciate the documents that give us our
rights, and the ability to transcend hate and prejudice that plagued
our past. Like most countries, we have a troubled history of genocide,
slavery, and racism. I am thankful though, that despite the men who created our founding documents not being perfect, their words have allowed this country to grow and prosper beyond its vile past.
I celebrate Thanksgiving as a day of thanks to my creator, my family, and my friends. I read about history because I want to learn from past mistakes. The two are not one in the same, and there is no guilt required when you go about enjoying your daily life and the holidays.
You did not destroy the Native American culture, and your support for human and civil rights in present day America is atonement for the sins of your forefathers. You are able to see the mistakes of the past, and you live a life that has learned from those mistakes. What more can you do now?
Join your family in good cheer and hope that the past will never be repeated. Be thankful for the prosperity of your country and that you are healthy. Study history and educate others on the mistakes of the past, but don't allow undue guilt to prevent you from celebrating actual living, breathing, life with family and friends.
Anonymous
Would you quit celebrating
Would you quit celebrating Christmas if I could prove it was based on a fraudulent story? Many of the holidays we celebrate have no relation to the story they were originally based on. How many people do you know that show respect to St. Valentine on the holiday named for him? How many non-Irish people do you know that celebrate St. Patrick's day? Yes, the genocide of the native american people is tragic and something more should be done to acknowledge and atone for these wrongs but to take a day that people celebrate with their families and give thanks for all they have and replace it with a day of sadness is just plain ridiculous.
Simpleliquid
Imagine
Imagine if there were a universally celebrated Holiday in Germany that revered good relations between Germans and Jews and was symbolic of an ideal of good relations between all people. Would you wan't to get rid of that too?
The problem with idiots like you is that you do nothing but tear down and destroy what is good. It's very easy to say what is wrong with something and much more difficult to recognize what is right with it. You are succesful in the former and incapable of the latter.
This Thanksgiving, I'm going to celebrate a holiday that honors coming to the aid of people in need, compassion and generosity and which allocates time for us to reflect on what we are thankful for in the world around us. By celebrating it, my son is going to learn that these are important values and that he lives his life accordingly. I will have time to look around and reflect on the positive things in the world and in my life that I am thankful for.
This Thanksgiving, as I'm thinking about what I am thankful for, I'll have one small addition. I'm thankful that people like you aren't running this country.
Have a meaningful fast. I'm going to have a meaningful Thanksgiving.
JewcyCraig
Hear Hear
I too am a little confused about how the premeditated incarceration and murder of millions of people based solely on a few traits equates to what happened to the Native Americans.
No doubt: tribes get massacred; the Europeans embraced racist, supremacist ideals; they displaced, hurt, and destroyed countless lives and families.
But... As far as I know (and correct me if I'm wrong) there was never any widespread, universal "Kill all the Indians" mentality among the colonials. As previously stated above, it seems like there were times, indeed, when the settlers relied on and had very positive relations with the natives. Further, it seems like Thanksgiving's true spirit is in giving thanks for the good things in life, something which I (and others) had always disassociated with our checkered past with the Native Americans. For being so literal in your interpretation of Thanksgiving, you seem strangely neglectful of the non-secular aspects of Christmas. Again- I'm no scholar here, but I think it has something largely to do with "Christ."
Lousy past for the Native Americans. They got the short end of the stick. But so did the Normans and the Anglos (or was it the Saxons?) and the Hawaiians and the Fijians and every other indigenous people whose homeland was eventually sacked by foreign conquistadors. Sucks for them. But, at any other point in history, the Native Americans would've just been assimilated and forgotten.. Hardly even "tantamount to Genocide."
Anonymous
Is the story of the
Is the story of the mechanics of civilization not essentially the conquering of one people by another? What's important is what people do as a culture, how they get better. Whatever your romantic fantasies of American Indians, European settlers established in America the most impressive long-running democracy in world history. Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday.
Anonymous
You do know this is a Jewish
You do know this is a Jewish website, right?
Anonymous
The last comment was
The last comment was directed at the "If I could prove Christmas..." guy.
D from SD
Protesting Thanksgiving. Are
Protesting Thanksgiving. Are you fucking serious? I don't even celebrate it and this seems like a load of shit. You know, I live right next to a reservation, most of the troubled kids I work with are Native and there are much, much larger issues than whether Americans get together with their families based on a tradition where some Puritans sat down and had dinner with the Indians their descendants would sometimes end up exploiting. If we go looking for some reason to get pissed off about any holiday, we could find it, including rituals the local Navajo and Hopi engage in. Thanksgiving is about as innocuous as it gets. No wonder people laugh at the left (which, at the end of the day, I do consider myself a part of), we're too busy bitching about Thanksgiving's historical significance (which, frankly, you don't seem to understand anyway) and not trying to make things better in any real way. Get a life and a set of priorities. And please don't act like hand-wringing liberalism is some sign of moral courage. You didn't attend Thanksgiving, big whoop. I don't attend 4th of July functions. Nobody gives a shit either way.
Dowl
Premise could be wrong
It's very debatable whether a genocide ever occurred or if the definition of genocide is applicable. 90 percent of the indigenous people dying as a result of the European influx died as a result of disease their body couldn't fight. Their is also much debate over the actual numbers who died in the various supposed violent genocides varying wildly. I've read also that the American government as it is known more or less today did make efforts to prevent their deaths. It was often isolated acts of violence. Nonetheless tragic but a genocide? The evidence does not convince me and by the way I'm not even an American. I mean I'm no expert but I'd look into it if i were you.
Ride The Heights
Thanksgiving a National Day of Mourning for Current Issues
Shalom,
After reading the responses to this Blog, I am asking myself why all this angry hateful speech? These comments are the exact responses that Mr. Jensen was talking about. Of all the ethnic groups Jews should be standing side by side with American Indians as they fight for justice, respect, and historical truth.
I spent the day at Plymouth, Massachusetts this year fasting and praying with my Native friends instead of being home partaking in an excuse for over eating and drinking. I was there because the issues that have faced Native Americans are still current today and no one wants to look at what Republicans and Democrats have both participated in till this day. I'll give you just a few examples of how the acts of American Genocide towards American Indians continues today while we sit at our HD TV's watching Football.
The American Holocaust did not happen as efficiently as the Nazis. The Government only exterminated and displaced Indians when they were ready for the next land grab.
Military actions against Native Americans stopped not because we suddenly became less racist in this country, but because it was costing Washington DC 1 Million Dollars to kill each Indian. Since it was too costly to pay the military to shoot, and burn, and pass out Small Pox blankets to Indians, they created a different program for genocide which in many ways continues today. First read the legal definition of Genocide to see that Genocide is continuing in Indian country today.
The international legal
definition of the crime of genocide is found in Articles II and III
of the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide.
Article II describes two elements of the
crime of genocide:
"Article II: In
the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed
with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial
or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated
to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Here are a few historic and current facts for the readers who have attacked Mr. Jensen.
NO MONEY= NO CIVIL RIGHTS FOR INDIANS: Civil Rights lawyers have historically stayed away from Indian cases because, as one lawyer told me, "There is no money in it."
WE KILLED THEM: Wounded Knee, Ft. Robinson, Camp Grant, Marias, Sand Creek, Washita River, Keyesville, Beaver River, Tonkawa, Gunther Island, Kaibai Creek, Bloody Island, Mystic River, and Deer Island massacres. (This is not a complete list by far. But I think you get the picture.
WE USED GERM WARFARE AGAINST THEM: We found it more efficient to expose them to small pox and TB than chase them with calvary.
WE IMPOVERISH THEM: We give Indians land that is worthless and remote that outside businesses do not want to open up. Pine Ridge Reservation is poorer than Haiti.
WE CONTINUE TO STEAL FROM THEM: The US Government wrote the treaties so that Indians have no mineral rights to coal, oil, uranium, gold, etc. on Indian land.
WE DON'T EVEN LEAVE THEM WATER: Sante Fe, NM needed more water for their lawns and golf courses, so there are 70,000 Navaho who do not have any water anymore. 70,000 United States Citizens whose water has been stolen.
WE GIVE THEM ALCOHOL INSTEAD: We build our bars right on the borders of reservations. We can make some money while we destroy the people.
WE GIVE THEM OUR TRASH INSTEAD: When San Diego needed more water for their lawns and golf courses,
they took it from the Indian Reservations, San Diego then put their
garbage on the Reservation. Presto, Indian landfill!
WE LET CRIMINALS CONTINUE THE WORK FOR FREE: Indians can't convict Non-Natives of Felonies, thus Reservations are a magnet for pedophiles and rapists, and murderers. Even if they get caught, they walk!
WE STEAL THEIR CHILDREN: After we stopped shooting Indians, we took their children away to boarding schools to kill the language and culture. Today the Foster Care system continue to hold a disproportionate amount of First Nations children in the system, and when they are adopted out, it is to non-Indian families.
GENOCIDE WAS NOT ONLY A EUROPEAN VALUE: While we were fighting Hitler in Europe, eugenic laws were being passed here in the USA. The state of Vermont passed their law in 1931 which resulted in the forcible sterilization of Abenaki women. In order to protect themselves the Abenaki started calling themselves Gypsies instead of Indians. These eugenic laws can be found in 24 of the 50 states. Sterilization of Native women peaked in the 1970's. Various modes were utilized to get this result including high powered X-rays on children. Ever wonder why Indian population doesn't seem to grow?
WE ASSASSINATE THEIR LEADERS: We remember Martin Luther King because he was assassinated, but what about the 70 leaders of the American Indian Movement who were assassinated in the 1970's by roving cars of "Goons". Three Indians finally fired back killing 2 of these "Goons" which turned out to be 2 FBI agents. Two of those men were found innocent during their trial because they were defending themselves against armed attackers. The third one hiding in Canada got a second messy trail and was given life for the same incident. Amnesty International continues to petition the US government to give Leonard Peltier a fair trial. He is considered a political prisoner.
WE POISON THEIR LAND: The Largest Nuclear Accident happened on Indian land. It only became a Super Fund cleanup site when White Ranchers started to complain their cattle were dying.
I could go on. Why are we continuing to do this to Native Americans? It is to America's monetary benefit to make Indians disappear, because if the government admits to its 350 broken treaties, it will loose money. Because there is no money for us if Indians continue to hold land that we want to develop. There is no money for us if Indians are content not being assimilated into our self centered consumerist culture where true happiness is found at BEST BUY and WALMART. In order for our economy to grow, those Natives must Go!
So until the people who scream equal rights and justice and truth in this country call this nation to account for the CURRENT abuses and murder of Indigenous people in this land, and tell the truth about the past, I will continue to fast with my Native People on Thanksgiving. By the way, I will be fasting with my Jewish friends on Tisha B'Av also.
One last thought, why do people want Indians to just forget and move on from the past, when those same forces want us to forget the holocaust also? Just wondering.
I'd Rather be Historically Accurate, Than Politically Correct.
Shalom,
Ride the Heights!
Isaiah. "Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke? Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter— when you see the naked, to clothe him, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood? Then your light will break forth like the dawn, and your healing will quickly appear; then your righteousness will go before you, and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard. Then you will call, and the LORD will answer; you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I."
Anonymous
K
So what would your solution be, Ride the Heights? Maybe we should exterminate all White people to atone for our collective evil.
JewcyCraig
Left one off
WE ASSIMILATED THEM: There is no major difference between Americans and American Indians in anyone's eyes. Come on off the reservations, guys- country's fine! God forbid you should have to deal with the evil Americans building evil bars on their evil land outside your reservation. Too little, too late.
...And for the record, I'm sure the Christmas guy knows. The analogy still stands, cause, well, Christmas really isn't for the Christians anymore.
Ride the Heights
Respect and Responsibility
Give some Respect. Be honest about history. Learn the issues and get vocal to your government reps. Make a stand for one issue with the Indian community until the government rights that wrong done to them. Speak out against the violence to First Nations Women and children. Give Indians their Water and Minerals rights back. Let them prosecute felons committing crimes on their Reservations. Stop dumping America's trash on Indian Land. Stop dumping radioactive waste on Indian land. Protect their sacred sites from development. Let them practice their religion. Let them run their own tribes without DC Puppet Counsels. Any of this would be a good start.
Peace,
Ride the Heights
JewcyCraig
What community?
Ride The Heights
Forced Assimulation is Oppression
JewcyCraig your comment sounds like like you're working for the Borg. "YOU WILL BE ASSIMULATED!" Forced Assimulation is oppression. Telling someone where to live and how to live sounds Marxist to me and not democratic.
In the Abenaki language there are no words for superiority, inferiority or equality, because it is a cultural value and understanding that all are equal. Why would they give up their culture to live in our culture where ageism, sexism, racism, classism, and all the other isms rule?
They are some of the most generous people I know. One Anglo trying to make a quick buck on Indians complained, "They need to learn to be more selfish." He wasn't making any money on them cause they shared everything they had with each other. Why would they want to be assimulated into a society where we step over homeless people on the way to the mall? Sitting Bull said, "The White man knows how to make all things, but doesn't know how to give them to his people."
We spent millions of dollars rebuilding the South, Germany, Japan, etc. after we won wars. We will spend Billions of Dollars rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan, but we throw bones to Indians who are "American Citizens".
There are 22,000 Natives fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan for this country, yet we let the La Jolla Indian reservation in CA burn to the ground last month. Ninety Four Percent of the Reservation burned while fire crews stood around Multi-Million Dollar Mansions down the road protecting the rich and famous who have their summer and winter and vacation homes. You say people do not see Indians as different, go visit La Jolla and tell them that.
Ride the Heights
JewcyCraig
I Still Don't See the Problem
I appreciate your extensive historical quotes from Indians Who Hate White People™. Clearly you know your stuff. I just don't see what that has to do with modern day Native Americans. Are they still unilaterally more equal than [white] Americans? Are they still making blanket generalizations about the white man?
They have reaped some of the benefits of our modern society from being in close proximity to us, and endured many hardships because they (seem to) choose to live on their reservations.
I'm sorry the firefighters had mansions to save. It sure makes sense that they were the first places they went, however, being that the reservations are semi-autonomous entities and the mansions were on American soil, owned by Americans without any other civic distinction.
Now, you look like you're falling just short of making the ridiculous claim that, had the mansions been owned by American citizens of Native Americans descent, the firefighters still wouldn't have made it there in time. Which, I'm sure, is not the case.
I'm no expert, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about this, but from what I understand, any Native American can have the rights and privileges that I have as soon as he gets himself off the reservation. I'm not fazed by your assertions that I have a "Marxist" attitude (an apparent jibe in your book) for wanting to assimilate them into modern society (even considering your deifying them for their communal attitudes toward property and society in the VERY NEXT PARAGRAPH).. But perhaps you should read between the lines for a taste of good old American capitalism: shit sucks for the Indians, but we have no obligation to do anything, so they need to sink or swim, and get off their reservations if they want to achieve the equal opportunity that they so cherish.
Ride the Heights
Some friendly cultural education and comparisons
Ok JewcyCraig.
I am enjoying these conversations. No jibe intended with the Marxist comment. The Jibe was the Borg statement. Maybe you're not a Trekkie. When I am typing these comments I need to type them quick so my thought pattern is not always clear. What I was doing was making a connection with a system of thought that the USA fought against. I do not have a problem with communal living. I have a problem with a forced system of thoughts imposed on people. Communism and Marxist beliefs were forced on millions of people. They told their people where and how to live by force and sent millions to the grave who did not conform to that thought. Indians have never had a religious or political war where they forced their beliefs on others. Being a member of a tribe is voluntary. The way Marxism was expressed last century was not voluntary. Living Tribal where family is sacred is not Marxism where family was to be replaced by the state.
Your suggestion of everything will be fine for Indians as soon as they leave their land is an old argument that Indians have heard for the last 400 years. Every time a smiling Anglo came to shake their hands saying they were there to help them, the Indian has lost more and more. This country continues to tell Indians to leave their land and all will be ok. Let me explain a few issues step by step so maybe we will all have a clearer understanding of why Indians do not want to leave their land.
1st. Their Religion is Land Based. They are connected to their land. Judism is tied to Israel. Asking an Indian to leave his land is like telling Jews to leave Israel. Will problems end for Jews if Israel is given to the Muslims?
2nd. Living on a reservation doesn't make one poor. The Seminole Tribe never made a peace treaty with the US government. They kept their resources. They fly around in private jets. They own the entire Hard Rock Cafe chain. They own many of the hotels in Miami. They have cattle ranches and orange groves. Every tribe that made a treaty with the US Government were impoverished by those treaties. Those treaties were like this: "Sign this or die." Like I said before, we take the water, the timber, the minerals, and leave them dust. Indians do not have a problem with capitalism, they have a problem with injustice.
3rd The United Nations declared the rights that Indigenous people have. http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unpfii/ 121 countries voted for it. 4 countries voted against it. Those who voted against it were Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and the USA, the four countries that continue to take the resources from reservation land leaving Indians dust. Sort of like the British taking the harvest from Ireland and leaving rotting potatoes for the Irish. Indians just want what is theirs.
4th American Indians are citizens of the US government, they can vote, they have served in every war we have fought. They love this country, but we make them jump through all kinds of hoops to even say they exist. Do Jews have to carry a blood quantum card to prove they are Jewish or the Scottish a Clan member card to say they are Scottish? We deny them their right to practice their religion if they do not have that blood quantum card. America, the land of Religious freedom, not for Indians. This effects Indians whether they live on the reservation or not. But if the Indians leave their land, loosing their land base, then they loose their need for a tribal government. Once that tribal government is disbanded, then they stop being legally Indians and they become extinct. What other ethnic group becomes extinct because they do not participate in the political process of their group? There are Indians like the Abenaki, the Nipmuc, and Lumbee which the US government says do not exist, not because they are not Native, but because the narrow way the Government lawyers have interpreted what constitutes a tribal government. There are Abenaki on reservations in Quebec. There are bands of Abenaki in Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, and Maine, but all of those people the Feds say are extinct because their tribal government disbanded into family clans in order to survive such things as the Forced sterilization of Abenaki women in Vermont in the 1930-40's. They hid to survive oppression, but they are still in New England and they are still Indian. Washington declares, they are extinct. Bumper Stickers in Vermont declare, "Funny I don't feel Extinct".
5th there are more Indians living off of the reservation in urban centers than on reservations and they face a culture that makes them invisible. We make mascots out of them like the Cleveland Indians and call that honoring them. We name cars after them and call that honoring them. Where is the Jersey Jews baseball team, or the Ford Torah Sudan? Our vocabulary is full of derogatory insults towards them. We call people Indian Givers (Thieves) and we experience Indian Summer (False Summer). We insult workers who are late as persons on Indian Time. I was late because I have an Indian Car (a car that does not work) etc. The difference between us and them is that we have lawyers that would jump all over anything Anti-Semitic in a nano second. The city where I live said the school mascot was racist and insulting, but not enough people were being insulted. There are 10,000 Natives in the area, how many more people need to be insulted for them to change the mascot? (FYI: Only the Seminoles were asked if it was ok to use their name for a sports team. Maybe because they have money and lawyers people were polite to the Seminoles.)
6th I could go on, but I need to go. The last thing I wanted to say is that the fire that burned the La Jolla Reservation was an arson fire that started on that reservation. Calls were made to the fire department. They never showed. The fire swept the reservation, but the trucks were not there to stop it. They were waiting for it down the road at those mansions. Two other arson fires were started on two other reservations in that same area last month. The FBI was called to investigate this as a hate crime. Indians are not holding their breath. There are 186,000 Natives living on and off of the reservations between San Diago and Los Angeles. There were many Indians that stood side by side fighting that fire with the greater community. Indians want to know why those towns which they helped defend this time and the past, did not respond in a timely manner when it was Indian land. If a reservation is too small to have its own fire department, the local towns are to respond just like they do for small towns that do not have their own fire department. Isn't it American to help a neighbor?
There are many issues facing Indians. Suggesting to an the First Nations People that they should walk away from their land base doesn't solve the injustice or racism. Oh by the way, many of the sky scrapers in NYC were built by Mohawk Steel workers who lived on a rez and commuted to NYC to work. Indians are hard workers on and off the Rez and will work for a Fee.
Hey there is a book that covers some of these issues if you get bored talking to me. It is called, "Killing the White Man's Indian," by Fergus Bordewich
Have a nice Sabbath,
Ride the Heights
Anonymous
awesome
Thank you. Our family doesn't celebrate any of the traditional holidays. We are a Native American family so around the time of thanksgiving (little t intentional) we celebrate our own. We call it Family Day.
I am appaled by the rising numbers of Native Americans who celebrate thanksgiving and perpetuate the myth as well.
I thank you again for telling the truth about this un-holy day.
Triple J
I loves me some Thanksgiving
By the time we got here the indian thing was more or less over. I don't think it was a planned genocide in the same way the holocaust was. did you ever see that documentary "guns germs and steel" ?? Stuff happens and it's not always as a result of the evil wishes or plans of man. More modern and advanced societies wipe out less modern and advanced ones. It's been going on since the Cro-magnon took care of the Neanderthals. that dynamic is NOT the same as what happend in the holocaust.
PS Whether TG is based on lies or not it has evolved into our best holiday! Try not to mess it up.
ChevyNazi
Okay, we know about all the
Okay, we know about all the bad stuff that was done to the Indians in the US. But it was no different throughout this hemisphere.
We are trying to make amends here in the US since 1970. Indians now have casinos and are doing quite well. You don't hear of casinos for Indians in the rest of the Americas now do you?
We got to stop harping on the past so much and concentrate on the now. This PC bullshit has got to stop once and for all!
As that Texas Jewboy Kinky Friedman says: "We have to put an end to Political Correctness in America before it puts an end to us"
Rose
Trail of Tears descendant
Hello,
My ancestor is an escapee from the Trail of Tears. I have always celebrated Thanksgiving. But my family had never payed any attention to my heritage either. Get the point. Now celebrating is not celebrating history, but only a chance to have some time to see loved ones that I don't get to see often.
Anonymous
Dude, you're a fucking
Dude, you're a fucking stuffy idiot.
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