Acknowledge the Armenian Genocide Now

--Z

Yeah, me, too. For reasons previously stated.  Foxman, as the letter says, you make our entire community look morally incompetent, morally idiotic, ridiculous. Thanks for that. But oh my goodness, why don't these kids want to stay in the community? Someone do a study!

For a long time I've thought the ADL has picked its battles more for its public image than to make the difference it was founded to make.

I'm in like sin. Foxman's gotta go unless he makes this right.

The ADL has definitely veered from its proper course. Haven't agreed with Foxman for a while.

I'm often in agreement with ADL, but on this matter (their refusal to acknowledge the Armenian Genocide of 1915) they're dead wrong.

Foxman needs to get his head out of his behind.

Foxman is defaming American Jews by representing us as self-centered hypocrites in regards to the Armenian genocide. I don’t care if he apologizes, he should step down! There should be no place for the likes of him in the Anti-Defamation League.

And in regards to Israel and the only Muslim country that acknowledges its right to exist... It happened almost 100 years ago! The Turkish perpetrators of the Armenian Genocide are all dead! It's about time Turkey came to terms with its past. If Israel's relationship with Turkey is so precarious that calling Turkey to task on a 100 year old atrocity is a deal breaker, then lamentably.... they were never allies.

I'm in!

I've been wishing Foxman would step down ever since he expressed reservations about Borat.  But now it's serious.  He is not the right man for his job anymore.

I think that Abe Foxman has undoubtedly gone too far.  I also think, perhaps too optimistically, that his heart is likely in the right place.  He likely thinks that he is doing all that is necessary to protect those he deems his charges.  But we as a people must stand for something more.  He has crossed a Rubicon, and he cannot reclaim the lost dignity and values of the ADL.  It is time for someone else to take over.

But not only should he reverse course on the Armenian issue. He should show consistency on the whole "using the word 'Nazi'" issue. If he's going to blast Keith Ellison for likening the administration's attempts circumvent legislative oversight to the anti-democratic manoeuvres of the Nazis, then he should be equally strong when Bill O'Reilly likens Daily Kos to the Nazis. If using the word "Nazi" always belittles the Holocaust, fine. But O'Reilly's example is far worse (Ellison, after all, did have a point about the machinations of the executive to have unchecked power). Could it have anything to do with the fact that Ellison is a Black man who happens to be Muslim, ,while O'Reilly is a powerful media figure?

Thank you Joey Kurtzman and the Jewcy staff for trying to set this right.
As an Armenian, you have my sincere appreciation.

The ADL in general could take a hike so far as I'm concerned, but maybe it would be a better representative of the Jewish community without Abe at the top. Truthfully, they don't deny the Armenian genocide, they just opt to not advocate for it's place in history that way. Which is like saying the Holocaust was real, but that shouldn't justify paying survivors their old possessions back.

Out with Abe.

This is a noble cause. Well done Jewcy.

The ADL has long stood for the proposition that anti-Semitism is best combatted by a comprehensive attack on all forms of discrimination.  By taking a selective approach to genocide denial, the ADL severely damages its ability to perform its vital mission.  The ADL must now repair the damage to its moral standing by acknowledging its grave error.  In the future, the ADL must not shy from speaking inconvient truths to friends of the Jewish people and Israel.

let's not be too hasty to sanction efforts of minority groups that have experienced genocide to mimic the Jews' leveraging of the Holocaust for political & economic gains.

It's a shitty game that has turned the Holocaust into a cheap commodity and has turned too many Jewish groups into self-righteous hucksters trying to shame the world for their own benefit.

By now we need to learn that over-attention to tragedy and over-identification with ones own victimization is a bad thing. For goodness sake, we don't need any more versions of Abe Foxman telling us what to think and feel.

Thank you for your leadership on this issue.   I agree with you Abe Foxman should publicly acknowledge the Armenian genocide and apologize to both the Armenian and the Jewish communities.  Since he probably won't do that, then I hope there is enough pressure to force him to step down.   It was bad enough that he became a genocide denier for the sake of Israel's precious alliance with the perpetrator, but now I find out from Jonathon that he attacked my congressman, Keith Ellison.  Enough already!

There is a very interesting book on the subject of Jewish attitudes toward the Armenian genocde:  "The Banality of Denial:  Israel and the Armenian Genocide" by Yair Auron.  I recommend it to anyone seeking to better understand this issue.

BTW, I am neither Armenian not Jewish, but I care a lot about this.

 Way to go, Watertown!

As a Christian, I was appalled by Foxman's statements. The concept of an ethical framework that applies to everyone is essential if we are to seek peace in the world. If Jews simply use the Holocaust to manipulate others through guilt, rather than to teach a universal lesson on what can happen when we cease to treasure every human life, the negative affects would reverberate far beyond Armenia. Instead of this, I hope your message prevails in the Jewish community, and demonstrates that Jews are worthy of the mantle of being God chosen people, who set an example for all others.

All the Anti-Semitic propaganda failed to show as as racist... And, now, that !

No we are not racist, we care other people genocides as much as we care being "humans"... Our fathers were genocided, with Gypsies and Slavs, not alone, and Armenians grand fathers were, too. Is this a place for bargain, or a place for respect and mourning ?

I feel ADL shot my foot.

thanks for sending this around
angie
alieber@jccmanhattan.org

I enthusiastically agree, and wrote about it on Jewcy a few weeks back when I had the pleasure of guest-blogging on the Daily Shvitz. Armenians should be able to count on the Jewish community in their struggle for recognition of this crime, and a group like the ADL, which aspires to leadership in that community, is making a huge moral mistake if it isn't willing to stand in solidarity.

I am enormously impressed with the Jewcy staff and its willingness to take on the ADL on this issue.  The ADL still does a lot of good for a lot of people, but to deny the truth of history for the sake of political alliance seems to me to be a betrayal of the good ADL purports to stand for.

 I'm in.  Acknowledge the truth and apologize for denying it -- or get out of the business.

 At the same time, we need to keep a close watch on the small Turkish Jewish community; they may indeed suffer if ADL reverses its stance.  ADL has put them in this position by identifying a "Jewish community" stance with Turkey's interest in denial.  But we still have as much of an obligation to Turkish Jews as to any others.

Thanks for this petition. I've blogged about this as well at http://3asl.blogspot.com/2007/08/watertown-vs-adl.html

Best,
Miriam Asnes

i 'm in - I have a really good friend who is armenian - how am I supposed to justify this kind of behavior?

I'm embarrassed by the ADL's stand and fearful of the consequences for the Jewish people's moral standing. I've blogged about this at Blue Mass Group.

TedF

As I understand the historical record, the Ottoman government admitted this, the US's Jewish ambassador to Constantinople (& grandfather of the current NY County DA) continually reported on the events to Washington +
the American people & Jews beyond the US borders broadly supported the Armenians. So how can this denial
possibly be?

No to Holocaust denial

I find it incredibly difficult to believe that an organization like the ADL would allow somebody in such a prominent position (Foxman, as President) to publicly declaim such a horrible and grossly WRONG point of view on a topic that we ourselves, as Jews, have dealt with so closely. We know that the wounds inflicted by Genocide, as we have witnessed again and again (The Shoah, Baba Yar, countless pograms - going well back to our earliest histories) take GENERATIONS to heal, and are never fogotten. How can such a point of view, the denial of the Armenian Genocide, be espoused by someone who, regardless of his personal beliefs on the matter, represents such a people (we Jews), who MUST be sensitive to issues of this kind, having experienced them moreso than almost, if not any other people in the history of Mankind?

I for one will not be supporting the ADL until they reverse this situation, by taking WHATEVER ACTION NECESSARY. If that includes firing Foxman, so be it. It's been too long that this horrible historical FACT has not been acknowledged, which is the FIRST step in the healing process, and by not supporting the Armenian communities worldwide in their call for recognition, we are, in effect, supporting those who commited these atrocities and those who continue to try to silence all reasonable voices in their attempted cover-up.

I refuse to be an accomplice. Foxman can do what he likes, but he - and by extention, the ADL - no longer represent my voice.

~Willem Gates, Seattle WA

If you want to read a first-hand account of the Armenian-Genocide, then I would suggest you read Ambassador Morgenthau's Story. It was written a few years after he returned from his service as U.S. Ambassador to Turkey, stationed in Istanbul. He took meticulous notes in his diary during his years of service and translated those into his book, which can be accessed free here:

http://net.lib.byu.edu/estu/wwi/comment/morgenthau/MorgenTC.htm#TC

Here are just two chilling exerpts among many. The first one is particularly shocking:

Excerpt One:

One day Talaat made what was perhaps the most astonishing request I had ever heard. The New York Life Insurance Company and the Equitable Life of New York had for years done considerable business among the Armenians. The extent to which this people insured their lives was merely another indication of their thrifty habits.

"I wish," Talaat now said, "that you would get the American life insurance companies to send us a complete list of their Armenian policy holders. They are practically all dead now and have left no heirs to collect the money. It of course all escheats to the State. The Government is the beneficiary now. Will you do so?"

This was almost too much, and I lost my temper.

"You will get no such list from me," I said, and I got up and left him.

Phantom Commentary

Incidentally, NY Life and AXA Insurance (a French insurance company) both settled lawsuits last year brought on behalf of descendants of the Armenian Genocide. NY Life paid out $20,000,000 and AXA paid out $17,000,000 in benefits they had illegally withheld for 90 years.

Excerpt Two:

It is absurd for the Turkish Government to assert that it ever seriously intended to "deport the Armenians to new homes"; the treatment which was given the convoys clearly shows that extermination was the real purpose of Enver and Talaat. How many exiled to the south under these revolting conditions ever reached their destinations? The experiences of a single caravan show how completely this plan of deportation developed into one of annihilation. The details in question were furnished me directly by the American Consul at Aleppo, and are now on file in the State Department at Washington . . . On the seventieth day a few creatures reached Aleppo. Out of the combined convoy of 18,000 souls just 150 women and children reached their destination. A few of the rest, the most attractive, were still living as captives of the Kurds and Turks; all the rest were dead.

My only reason for relating such dreadful things as this is that, without the details, the English-speaking public cannot understand precisely what this nation is which we call Turkey. I have by no means told the most terrible details, for a complete narration of the sadistic orgies of which these Armenian men and women were the victims can never be printed in an American publication . Whatever crimes the most perverted instincts of the human mind can devise, and whatever refinements of persecution and injustice the most debased imagination can conceive, became the daily misfortunes of this devoted people. I am confident that the whole history of the human race contains no such horrible episode as this. The great massacres and persecutions of the past seem almost insignificant when compared with the sufferings of the Armenian race in 1915. The slaughter of the Albigenses in the early part of the thirteenth century has always been regarded as one of the most pitiful events in history. In these outbursts of fanaticism about 60,000 people were killed. In the massacre of St. Bartholomew about 30,000 human beings lost their lives. The Sicilian Vespers, which has always figured as one of the most fiendish outbursts of this kind, caused the destruction of 8,000. Volumes have been written about the Spanish Inquisition under Torquemada, yet in the eighteen years of his administration only a little more than 8,000 heretics were done to death. Perhaps the one event in history that most resembles the Armenian deportations was the expulsion of the Jews from Spain by Ferdinand and Isabella. According to Prescott 160,000 were uprooted from their homes and scattered broadcast over Africa and Europe. Yet all these previous persecutions seem almost trivial when we compare them with the sufferings of the Armenians, in which at least 600,000 people were destroyed and perhaps as many as 1,000,000. And these earlier massacres, when we compare them with the spirit that directed the Armenian atrocities, have one feature that we can almost describe as an excuse: they were the product of religious fanaticism and most of the men and women who instigated them sincerely believed that they were devoutly serving their Maker. Undoubtedly religious fanaticism was an 'Impelling motive with the Turkish and Kurdish rabble who slew Armenians as a service to Allah, but the men who really conceived the crime had no such motive. Practically all of them were atheists, with no more respect for Mohammedanism than for Christianity, and with them the one motive was cold-blooded, calculating state policy.

Phantom Commentary:

There are so many famous men and women of Jewish faith in modern history, too many to name or count. Perhaps Morgenthau is an obscure figure because there are so many other noteworthy Jews to think about. But for Armenians Morgenthau is a household name. We all know of him. We even know of his grandchildren. He is a hero for us. And he's not the only Jew who has stood up for Armenians. There are many others like Yair Auron, Israel Charney, Eli Weisel, Yehuda Bauer, Deborah Lipstadt, Robert Melson, Andrew Goldberg, etc. etc. etc. . . .

I offer this, because it appears there are many Jews here and in other forums and blogs who say they feel ashamed or embarrased by what Foxman has said and what the ADL has done.

But there are many others who should make you feel proud.

Thank you Jewcy for calling a spade a spade. Foxman needs to accept his failures, apologize, step down, and walk away to where all the other washed insular people of his generation should go. Thank you for shining the light on such a dark stain on our community.

I support Jewcy's initiative. Foxman should be allowed to retain his position if he acknowledges the Armenian genocide and apologizes for his previous stance. If he refuses to do so, he should resign or face dismissal.

Frankly, I've long viewed Foxman as an alarmist who picks on easy and trivial targets (Mel Gibson, Heeb magazine, Borat), while ignoring or glossing over those individuals and institutions that are riskier to combat but are a far greater threat to Jews, other minorities, and democracy in general.

Count me in. Jews (well, primarily Israel) can't deny a genocide for political gain. It's sick and makes us look morally blind.

For years now I've been challenging denialism wherever and whenever it surfaces. But never in my wildest nightmares have I imagined I would challenge the ADL -- of all organizations -- on this issue!

Abe Foxman is a disgrace. His continued silence is appalling. By all means, count me in!

Sack Him

It is a disgrace that someone with as much education as Foxman should even entertain the belief that this genocide didn't happen. The insurmountable evidence to support the first hand accounts of this Armenian tragedy are transparent, and anyone who denies this is clearly as warped as the Bush administration. I support Jewcy's call for an immediate retraction of Mr Foxman's words, and a full and frank appology.
My grandfather was on a death march but was lucky enough to escape, unlike the countless others who were tortured and abused before being killed. This is a human tragedy, the first attempt to ethnically cleanse a race during the 20th century and should be recognised as such.

An English Armenian.

Fire Foxman!

Definately in!

For people to say that this genocide did not happen is just pure naivety. The fact that my grandfather was living proof and has told me and my family many stories of his experiences during this time proves the existence of this event.

Thank you Jewcy and everyone for challenging Mr Foxman's statement. The photographic evidence, written evidence from diplomats in Turkey at the time and the eye-witness accounts from people like my grandfather all prove that the Armenian genocide did occur.

He is sabotaging a much-needed program and relationshions between Jews and other groups---"it is "bad for the Jews"!

Please add my name to the petition.

And after we've acknowledged the Armenian genocide, let's acknowledge the American Indian genocide, and the Native Hawaiian genocide, and the Hispanic-American genocide -- to mention only a few.

Yalhak

PS: And of course, add my name to the petition please. 

Add my name to the petition.

Just a little reminder, Mr. Foxman: genocide is bad, no matter who the victims are.

How can anyone deny such a horrible atrocity?! It sickens me.

I don't care about apologies but fully support your first demand: Acknowledge the Armenian Genocide.

Shaun Mandelkorn, DC

Abe Foxman should absolutely be fired. Denying the Armenian genocide is just as ignorant and offensive as denying the genocides in Rwanda and Cambodia and even the Holocaust.

Ok, I know I am calling the whole crowd's wrath on myself, but this is what I think:

1. I would gladly sign this petition on clauses 2 and 3. I believe, as clause 2 implies, that ADL has no business in denying Armenians their natural right to interpret their history the way the nation sees it. I also believe that an apology to the Armenians for such a insolent "valuation" is a proper and timely thing, as clause 3 expresses.

2. On the first clause I disagree, because I subscribe to the same logic that third parties should neither validate nor deny any such claims without serious international legal investigation undertaken. It may feel good to do that but it is immature and criminally naive for a third party to accuse a nation of genocide with international legal authorities silent and the defense of the accused party not being thoroughly investigated. I am not a lawyer, I am a scientist and not a big fan of excessive legalities at all, but in this case, the Western standard of innocent until proven guilty must be applied in some way.

As a Jew, I also believe that many of the signatories here are happy to sign such a petition because it make them feel good and turn away from our own responsibility of illegal occupation of Palestine, the apartheid system that we installed there and how we in may ways deny our own deeds against Palestinian civilians that they also call genocide and from which we benefit - israelis directly and Diaspora Jews - indirectly. Also it is easy for us, as Americans, born or naturalized, by signing such petitions top look compassionate and progressive, rather than take a look at the Native American genocide and the terrible condition it leaved them into from which we all benefit on a DAILY basis.

This comment thread is a petition, a place for people to sign, and if they wish explain why they are signing. We're of course delighted if the petition prompts debate about explanations or the merits of the petition itself, but it can't be here, because we need this space to serve as a list of signatories! Please debate anywhere else on the site, such as here or here.

Thanks!