Tue, May 13, 2008

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"Standing By The Work Is The Only Option"

From: Nellie Hermann
To: Joshua Henkin
Re: Standing By the Work


Hi Josh--

I have to say I agree completely (hopefully all our agreeing doesn't make our conversation boring, but I'm happy about it) with your thoughts about MFA programs. It's a complicated issue, and I don't think there's any statement you can make (is there ever?) that doesn't need some kind of qualifier. Maybe that’s just a way of saying that I can see both sides. I agree one hundred percent that there is a vast ocean of difference between wanting to be a writer, romanticizing the writer and the writing life, and actually doing the work and producing writing. In this sense, yes, a thousand times, to going to the library and reading rather than going to Pamplona to chase the bulls. Have you read Bellow's Henderson the Rain King? The book is set in Africa, and he'd never been there when he wrote it, and I think this is an important element of why the book works so well.

On the other hand, I do think that the proliferation of MFA programs encourages a certain amount of laziness about writing that doesn't really serve anyone. Writing workshops can backfire: Writers need role models and guidance, but some MFA programs come up short.Writing workshops can backfire: Writers need role models and guidance, but some MFA programs come up short. Unfortunately not all writing teachers are as engaged as you no doubt are, or as my own professors were, and so the experience can vary so widely that it's really hard to judge. My experience in grad school was a good one, mostly because I had four wonderful mentors who were smart and challenging, and because by the end of my time I had found a handful of peers that I respect as writers and hope to keep as readers for my whole life. In the wrong program, though, or with the wrong group of people, I could see this experience backfiring in many ways. Especially at a program like mine, at Columbia, where funding is virtually unheard of. I do think writing can be taught, or if not taught then certainly guided; but there needs to be a certain quality of mind on the part of the student. A wish to be guided, someone who’s on the lookout and open to models, and, right, willing to put in the time in front of the blank page. That’s the real bottom line. I think that models and teachers are necessary to a writer's success and growth, but I don't think the MFA, per se, is necessary by any means.

As far as the anxiety goes, I do think that the proliferation of MFA programs (and the accompanying criticism of them) contributes to a certain culture of writer-celebrity and also of writer-devaluing that is of no help to anyone. I don't know enough about the publishing business to make any kind of comparison, but I wonder at the numbers of works of fiction that are published today versus say 30 or 40 years ago, when MFA programs were non-existent. Are there more of them? Are they better, now, on the whole? I doubt it. There may be just no way to really get a handle on it. For my part, I'm not sure that my anxiety about publishing a work of autobiographical fiction has much to do with the larger societal idea that young writers haven't "lived" enough to have anything to write about -- I think it's pretty safe to say that what I personally experienced before the age of 18 was quite enough to fill a few books, and I'm not worried about anyone coming back at me with that. It's not as if there is no act of imagination or art in turning real life into a work of fiction. But it's the flipside of the same coin; I feel waves of anxiety already, when people ask me right off the bat whether my book is autobiographical without knowing anything about me or the work. "Well you're young, so it must be," is the argument, which is twisted, and which is what I so want to rebel against. I'm also scared that people will read my book and assume, for this same reason, it's all true, because if it were all true (which it's not, for the record), that would somehow make the work easier to write off, and easier to have done. But at the end of this train of thought is that a lot of this is simply insecurity, and yes, again, the tentativeness needs to be eradicated, the apologies left at the door. Standing by the work is the only option, and solution. This will be my mantra, and I only hope I have the strength to follow it.




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"Every Word Counts"

From: Joshua Henkin
To: Nellie Hermann

Re: MFAs

I know writers who say they don't read while they're writing for fear of being too influenced. But if, like most writers, you're writing all the time, then that means you're never going to read, which is a real problem for a writer since the best education you can get is from other books. Besides, I've never understood the anxiety of influence. We should all want to be influenced -- just as long as we're being influenced by the right stuff. Imitation is how writers achieve their own voice. There was a class in imitation when I was in grad school -- one week you wrote like Woolf, the next week you wrote like Faulkner--and everyone found it tremendously helpful.

It's interesting that you mention Philip Roth’s visit; I had a very similar experience with Richard Ford. This was shortly after he'd won the Pulitzer for Independence Day, and he was sitting there with Charles Baxter, a wonderful writer and one of our teachers. Ford said that he and Charlie were both at that stage in their careers when they sometimes got paid for work they hadn't yet written and that was nice, but that the page was just as blank every time they sat down. And though at that point I had only published a couple of short stories, I realized that even if I managed to achieve further success as a writer, the page was going to feel just as blank. I feel that more than ever now. You reach a point where you know that what you write won't be so abysmal that it wouldn't pass freshman English, but will it be really good? Will it be magical, will it jump off the page? Why is it that we read a novel we love, and then we read another novel by the same person and don't love it nearly as much, and then we read a third novel by them and we love that one? Were they good and then bad and then good again? I just think that some books work and some don't and there's often no telling why. Charles Baxter has three early novels that were never published, and he might say that those unpublished works were instrumental in getting him to where he is. For the same reason, I have no regrets about the three thousand pages I threw out. You need to throw out a lot of bad pages in order to get to the good ones. In that sense, I'm temperamentally well suited to being a writer. What separates the men from the boys and the women from the girls is the ability and inclination to rewrite--to really revise in a deep way.

I also understand what Roth was saying about the time between novel. In a way that's why I started to write novels in the first place -- because I was having that experience to the nth power with short stories (with novels, it happens only once every few years, whereas with stories it can happen every couple of months). I happen to love stories, am perplexed as to why story collections don't sell (you'd think, with today's attention spans...), and think that in many ways stories are harder than novels because there's so little room for error, every word counts.

The issue of not apologizing is important. Which doesn't mean that a writer
shouldn't be receptive to criticism, editing, etc. There's not a writer in the world who isn't helped by a good reader (I have several who really saved MATRIMONY a few times along the way). But the key is never to be tentative. Fiction is about convincing your readers that something untrue is in fact true. That's no easy feat. A writer is basically up a creek if they themselves aren't convinced that what they're writing is true. You have to do what Zadie Smith told Charlie Rose: take your readers by the lapels and refuse to let them disbelieve. Zadie Smith: A model of non-tentativeness.Zadie Smith: A model of non-tentativeness.

Sometimes I see real tentativeness in my students' work, even on the sentence level. They’ll write sentences like "she turned slightly to the left" or "he was a little nervous." Why not just say "she turned to the left" or "he was nervous"? Words like "slightly", "a little," "somewhat," etc -- all these qualifiers -- are littered all over my students' stories and they almost always weaken the work. It's as if the writer is saying, well, maybe you're not going to believe me when I say the character is nervous, so I'll say she's slightly nervous, how about that?

I don't mean to make such a big deal about a single word, except what else are writers going to make a big deal about if not words, and it's a rare to be tentative on the sentence level without also being tentative on the bigger levels of narrative and character. I feel the same way about foreshadowing. Too many writers over-foreshadow--it's another case of under-confidence. I visited a book group recently -- they were discussing MATRIMONY -- and there ensued a long discussion of a key betrayal discovered midway through the novel (sorry to be coy--don't want to ruin things for people who haven't yet read the book). Anyway, someone asked me why I didn't foreshadow that betrayal more--why didn't I leave more popcorn along the narrative trail so that what happened could have been seen. The answer is that I didn't want it to be seen. In general when we’re busy trying to foreshadow events, we’re stepping out of our characters' heads and out of the fictional dream state. Flannery O'connor talks about a good ending to a story being both surprising and inevitable--you didn't predict it, but once you get there it feels exactly right. I think that's true not just for endings but for everything about a piece of fiction.

Speaking of O'Connor, she also said (in her wonderful book of essays Mystery and Manners) that anyone who's lived until the age of 10 has enough material to write about for a lifetime. Which I think is her way of saying that there's no reason to be embarrassed about writing autobiographically -- and so I agree, you have nothing to apologize for when it comes to your novel. There are pitfalls, of course, to writing autobiographically, but I think there are greater pitfalls to writing about material that isn't close enough to you. In MATRIMONY, Professor Chesterfield tells Julian that he should write what he knows about what he doesn't know or what he doesn't know about what he knows -- sounds like a bad LSAT problem. But what he means, and what Julian takes to heart (and what I take to heart), is that a writer needs to find a balance between being too close to and being too far from the material. My undergrads, in particular, tend to err to one extreme or the other. They write simply what they know (a transcript of Friday night's frat party) or simply what they don't know (martians). But what a writer needs to do is be close enough to the material that there's heart in it, that something's at stake, that the writer is at risk, but not so close to it that the writer is concerned about fidelity to actual truth. Fiction is about using the imagination to get at a deeper kind of truth. All that said, I'd rather be too close to my material than too far from it. It's much harder to put heart into something you don't care about than to achieve the kind of aesthetic distance necessary to make autobiographical material work. Which is my longwinded way of saying that I'm all for writing from one's own experience, and though the plot/events of MATRIMONY are fabricated, the kind of people I'm writing about, the situations they're in, the concerns they have all come from my own concerns in some deep, even if hidden, way.

My sense is that the anxiety I spoke of about writing about writing and the anxiety you spoke of about writing an autobiographical novel may come from a similar place in our culture -- that we privileged Americans, children of the university, haven't lived enough and that if you're writing about your own experience then you're being narrow, self-indulgent, solipsistic, etc. While it's certainly true that there's a good deal of solipsistic fiction out there, I don't think it's confined to those who are writing autobiographically, and I think O'Connor is right. If anything, I think writers should be writing closer to home, not farther from it. Hemingway was certainly a good writer, but I see him as responsible (perhaps inadvertently) for a lot of the nonsense about how a writer should live/what a writer should do. I'm talking about this idea that the way to be a writer is go hike the Himalayas, or hang out in cafes in Paris, or Kyoto, or Prague. Well, all of those are fine things to do, but if an aspiring writer asked me whether it would be better to spend a year in Nepal or a year in the local library reading great books, I'd say the latter without an instant's hesitation. The writer as cowboy -- this is all the product of some romantic idea that people have, and these are usually people who are more interested in being writers than in actually writing. This whole issue has very much been on my mind because I’ve recently written a number of essays in the blogosphere and in print about MFA programs -- my experience being in one and now teaching in a few of them. I argue that, though MFA programs aren't for everyone, they can, if you combine the right student with the right teacher, be incredibly helpful. I know they were for me, and I've seen many of my own students make tremendous leaps. The attitude that is so prevalent is that writing can't be taught, that it shouldn't be taught, that it's all a big scam. I disagree strongly. What I'm getting at is I think the cultural forces that make people feel the need to apologize for writing about writing or writing autobiographically are also the forces that dismiss MFA programs as overpriced finishing schools. While I think there are many legitimate criticisms of MFAs, I think the programs and writing workshops in general are unfairly maligned. So I want to end this round of our correspondence with a question for you. I gather you went through an MFA program yourself. What was your experience like, what are your thoughts about MFA programs in general, and do you think there's any relation between the criticism of MFA programs and some of the broader issues we've been talking about regarding what material from life is and isn't fiction-worthy?


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"We Have To Take What We Do Seriously, Or Who Will?"

From: Nellie Hermann
To: Joshua Henkin

Re: Writing About Writing
Stoner by John Williams: Skyrocketed to Nellie's top five immediately.Stoner by John Williams: Skyrocketed to Nellie's top five immediately.
Hi Josh,

So many meaty thoughts to chew on.

I have read Crossing to Safety-- though it has been a long time, and I probably should revisit it. I loved it when I read it, and now I can see the inspiration for Matrimony, for sure. I am always interested in how writers use models for their work. I know people who look directly to the texts they've loved, copying structures exactly, and others who just owe a debt to a book because it inspired them so. But finding models is such a crucial part of the whole process, and certainly of pulling yourself back when you're feeling like you have no idea what you're doing.

Which, I'm happy to hear you say, is so much of the time! It’s heartening to hear that other writers feel that sense of floundering. Philip Roth came to a grad school class I was in once and said that he never is more depressed than when he’s in between books. He didn't say that he necessarily ever feels like he doesn't know how to write another one (I mean this is Philip Roth we're talking about) but at least he has some version of that too. And I like the idea that maybe this is part of the process for novel writing precisely because novels are such beasts, in the sense that every one is (or should be) unique, and every one calls for a completely different set of rules and a different approach and attack, and the key is to have the patience to figure out the right tools for the next one. Hard, because change is always hard, and patience is always hard, and because you can never be sure you're on the right track. But isn't that always the way.

I found what you said about the present moment (vs. flashbacks) so interesting. It particularly hit home for me because in an earlier draft of my novel I had the narrative leaping back and forth between a present tense narrative and long past tense sections. One of my first readers (and an important teacher of mine) made the (very key) point that structuring the book in this way served to devalue the past tense sections, as the reader was always waiting to get back to the present and see what happened next, and therefore disengaged from the direct emotion of the past sections. This led me to a complete restructuring, so that now the book goes chronologically, and the present tense part only comes at the end. It's so fascinating to me how important these structural changes are, in a novel, and how much these leaps of time (that, yes, as you point out, seem to a reader to be so effortless) affect the way the book is read, and processed, and understood. One of the greatest pieces of advice I got about writing a novel -- which is exactly what you say you eventually did in your book -- was from a teacher who said that the key to novel writing was trusting that you could jump in time, and that actually the more gaps you have that you don't fill in, the better. You you don't have to say "and then she worked in a restaurant for 4 years," you can just skip to four years later. Sounds easy, but it's so hard to take that leap of faith, trusting your readers to fill things in.

I agree with you, too, on the "writers writing about writing". The distinction you draw strikes me as the right one: there's a difference between dropping a random reference to writing a short story, and embodying a character who happens to be a writer. I think, really, that that aforementioned teacher would probably even agree with that. If your character is a writer, and if you take him seriously as such, then it becomes another occupation, and it really comes down to the quality of mind that you apply to the treatment of it. I think your point about tentativeness is especially key, and is one I take to heart. I have been feeling like apologizing a lot lately...mostly for writing an autobiographical novel, which for some reason makes me feel some kind of shame, or need for apology...and it comes down to the same point. Never apologize! Tentativeness is death! We have to take what we do seriously, or who will? It's the same thing with finding time in your life to do the work...if you succumb to the phone ringing or to someone asking you to have a coffee during your writing hours it's tantamount to the same kind of apology, to devaluing the job as not as important (I am particularly guilty of this right now, too).

Also, about sentiment: I truly don't understand books without it. It is always the writers who are straightforward about feeling and truth that I most admire. Have you read Stoner, by John Williams, by the way? Most people haven't, and I'm on a personal crusade of getting people to read it. It skyrocketed to my top five pretty much immediately. There are few books that are this clear on sentiment, without becoming necessarily sentimental. But I think, finally, what I found most enlightening about the sentiment in the Mia/Cancer part of Matrimony was the way that you took on her fear. I think fear is rare for fiction. It struck me while I was reading about Mia's fear that it’s rare for a character's fear to be so boldly portrayed.


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"Novels Are Such Beasts"

From: Josh Henkin
To: Nellie Hermann

Re: Never Apologize


Nellie--

Thanks for the awfully kind words about Matrimony; I really appreciate them. I have indeed read Yates's Easter Parade, and any comparison to Yates makes me one happy guy. I think Revolutionary Road is one of the truly great novels out there--one of the best I've ever read--and I like Easter Parade a lot too. In some ways, the book that was most directly (if subconsciously) influential on me in writing Matrimony is another book that covers a long period of time and is also about love and friendship and writing and academia, and is also about two couples, and that's Wallace Stegner's Crossing to Safety. Have you read that one? A terrific book.Richard Yates' Revolutionary Road: An inspirationRichard Yates' Revolutionary Road: An inspiration

Anyway, as to whether I always write like this, it's hard for me to know because after two novels and a bunch of stories, I'm still trying to figure out what “always” is for me. I do tend to write pretty simply and directly. When I sit down to write I'm hoping I'm going to write some big, complex David Foster Wallace-type thing, but that's just not how I write, and I think in any case that being simple and straightforward can be the hardest thing of all -- no tricks to hide behind. I'm thinking, for instance, of Tobias Wolff's memoir This Boy's Life, a book I just adore. What I love about Wolff is how not written his work seems, how effortless. But as you yourself no doubt know -- as any writer knows -- it takes a huge amount of effort to make something seem effortless, so much sweat and endless revision, etc.

What is in fact new for me with Matrimony is the temporal scope. My first novel, Swimming Across the Hudson, covers about a year, and most of my stories are in fairly compressed time, and the new novel I'm working on now takes place over a single July 4th weekend, but Matrimony covers twenty years. On one hand, it's a really sprawling book, but on the other hand, it focuses on a relatively small cast of characters, is told in only two points of view (Julian’s and Mia's) and, sentence by sentence, it's pretty tight.

But you’ve really homed in on some of the key struggles I experienced in writing the book. Matrimony took me ten years to write and I threw out over three
thousand pages. I was on a pretty long book tour in the fall, and when I told audiences that there were a whole lot of gasps and shakings of head at my tenacity/pigheadedness/stupidity, and then came the inevitable question of how it could possibly have taken ten years to write a 300-page book. It was a big and long learning process, and I won’t pretend it's over. Novels are such beasts. They're real leaps of faith in that it takes a couple of years before you know not whether it's going to be a good novel or a bad novel but whether it's going to be a novel at all. And then you have to start anew with the next one, and the page is just as blank. So I know exactly what you mean when you say that you feel you've never written a novel even as your own novel sits right in front of you. I wonder if that feeling every goes away.

How do you write a novel that covers twenty years without turning the book into a boring chronology? How do you know what to include and what to exclude? I always start at what I think is the beginning and then move forward, but I'm often egregiously wrong about where the book is going. In fact, if I'm right about where I think the book is going I worry something is seriously amiss. Writing for me is a discovery and if I'm too sure of what's going to happen before it happens then I end up straitjacketing my characters in a preordained plot (and I get what a friend of mine likes to call Lipton-cup-a-story), which is the last thing I want to do.

In this particular case, I knew the story was about a love relationship and I knew it took place at a college reunion. Well, Matrimony is (in part) about a love relationship, and there is in fact a college reunion in the book, but that reunion doesn't happen till about page 260 and it lasts for all of 7 pages. I teach writing, and I'm always telling my students that they need to take the here and now of their stories seriously. It's like the Passover question: why is this night different from all other nights? Well, it's the fiction question too. And I think for complex psychological reasons a lot of writers, and perhaps especially a lot of student writers, find it much easier to write in flashback than to write in the here and now, and so they use the here and now as a mere gazing-back point -- an occasion for memory -- and when they do this the narrative almost always feels inert and the obvious question is if you're really most interested in what's taking place in flashback, why not make the flashback the here and now?

I had this epiphany when I was reading Richard Russo's Empire Falls -- he does such a good job of revealing information in flashback -- and shortly after that I began to think in a new way about the structure of my own novel. That's when I came upon the idea of the leaps in time -- between each section of the book I skip about four years. It's like presidential elections. The reader is dropped into a new time and place and slowly s/he figures this out. And though a lot of important material gets imparted in the here and now, a lot gets imparted in flashback too. It was figuring that out -- when to pause for longer scenes and when to fold in material in back story -- that took me so long.

The second big struggle was writing about writing. I'm not surprised your writing teacher said you shouldn't write about writing. Just about everyone says that, though it's worth noting that there's a lot of really good fiction about writing and writers, including Ian Mcewan's Atonement, Martin Amis's The Information, Francine Prose's Blue Angel, a bunch of Alice Munro stories (have you read "Family Furnishings"?), and many, many others. But it's become such a mantra -- don't write about writing. Earlier drafts of Matrimony suffered from a deep self-consciousness on my part about writing about writing, and it really infected the whole book, even the parts that weren't about writing. The tone of the book was entirely different. It was much more ironic, playful, coy, at times farcical, and it wasn't working. I was so panic-stricken about violating this taboo against writing about writing that even when I wasn't writing about writing (and certainly when I was), I was too busy being playful and winking at the reader. At some point I realized this is ridiculous. Why shouldn't a writer write about a writer? There's good writing about writers and bad writing about writers, just as there's good writing and bad writing about butchers, engineers, football players, and taxidermists. I realized that if Julian had been a doctor or lawyer or a mobster or a secretary, I would take those occupations (and the aspirations that go hand in hand with them) seriously.

When I have a student who's writing a story that has nothing to do with writing and then all of a sudden there's mention made of a short story the character has written, that strikes me as a failure of imagination. The student has writing on the brain and so s/he turns to the first thing s/he can think of. But when a writer is writing about a writer, it's criminal not to take that seriously, and criminal to apologize for it. To me, tentativeness is the death of a writer. Zadie Smith said something similar when she was interviewed by Charlie Rose about White Teeth: a writer must always go for it. As soon as I stopped feeling the need to apologize for writing about a writer, everything in the book changed. I began to take Julian more seriously, and he became a real character to me. Which is my long-winded way of saying that I think your writing teacher is wrong.

As for the cancer material, I thought of Mia's mother's death as the central event in the novel, in that it prompts Julian and Mia to get married much earlier than they otherwise would have. But Mia's own health scare came much later on in the writing process and the whole question of testing for the Ashkenazi Jewish breast cancer gene came even later. In earlier drafts Mia didn't have a sister-- Olivia was fairly late in coming.

As for writing honestly about fear and other such powerful emotions, I always try to do that. A writer wants to be writing about big things--there should be something at stake. My grad students are so fearful of being cheesy and over the top, they're so afraid of sentimentality, that they rob their work of sentiment. Sure, you don't want to be sentimental, but you do want sentiment, and I think too many writers are so fearful of sentimentality that there's no feeling in their work. I think a writer always needs to risk going over the top. Charles Baxter says something to that effect in his essay In Defense of Melodrama. A lot of my students are so afraid of direct emotion that they're subtle to the point of obfuscation. And ironically, I think the more direct you are the subtler you end up being, and the more you try to be subtle the more you end up confusing the reader and actually not being subtle at all.


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Is It Okay For Writers To Write About Writing?

A novelist deals with tricky topics: marriage, mastectomy, and MFA workshops

Matrimony: A novel about twenty years in a couple's tumultuous marriage.Matrimony: A novel about twenty years in a couple's tumultuous marriage.
To: Joshua Henkin
Re: Matrimony

Jewcy presents a conversation between a Nellie Hermann, a young writer who's anticipating the publication of her first novel, and Joshua Henkin, whose novel Matrimony was called "beautiful" by Michael Cunningham and "lifelike" by Janet Maslin.

From: Nellie Hermann
Hi Josh,

Just for a bit of context--I am a writer myself, and my first novel is set to come out with Scribner in August. Because of this, probably, I read your book as someone who is feeling pretty scared of publication and is always on the lookout for models, tools, and advice as to how to handle certain aspects of the process.

That said, let me tell you how much I enjoyed your book. I read it in two days, couldn't put it down, which is not an experience I often have. It reminded me very much of Richard Yates's The Easter Parade (have you read it?), namely for the way that it swept along, following its characters as they grow and change, moving in a straightforward way, the narrative blissfully free from tricks. I wonder, do you always write like this? I mean, covering this much ground? Or was the sweep of the book a conscious choice for this particular story? This is, I suppose, a larger question about novel construction (a subject I'm particularly interested in now, after finishing my first book, because it feels to me as if I've never written one even as I can see it in front of me...and I'm bewildered as to how it happened). How did the construction of the book grow or change? Did you start at the beginning and just follow the story? Straightforward narrative construction is always a bit of a revelation --Jhumpa Lahiri's The Namesake comes to mind as another example -- and it makes me wonder what it exactly it is about novel construction that makes this style unique these days.

Another aspect of the book that I found really interesting was the element specifically about writers and writing. You brazenly (and admirably) go right into the realm of the writing workshop, which I was under the impression was off-limits for a work of fiction. I had a writing teacher who admonished us never to write about writing, never to have our characters writing, never to discuss the act of writing, for the ways that it took the reader out of the dream-state of reading and made them remember that they were, in fact, reading a piece of writing, which for him was strict no-no. But I admired the way you did it...and it made me wonder about how much of the self-referential aspect of writers writing about writing is “okay”. Have you had responses on this score from writers and non-writers who have read your book? I wondered, as I was reading these parts, how they would strike me if I wasn't a writer, and how then I would relate differently to the narrative. Along these lines, a lot of what I admired about how you did it was how much of your own tricks of the trade you put into the book; how much of your own feeling about good writing and how writing is made. Do you feel any trepidation about having put this aspect of yourself into the book?

One more line of inquiry, and then I'll stop. This is already enough to keep us going for a while. I really loved how you handled the cancer stuff throughout the book. I was particularly interested in the way you balanced Mia’s extreme fear, contemplating and even planning on having a preemptive mastectomy, with the great hope that is manifested in the act of having a baby. The balance of these two things was so human, and so honest, and I was struck by how few books are that honest about the fear that people experience (particularly people who, like Mia, have lost loved ones to disease), and the way that the fear is balanced by life. Tell me about the conception, if you would, of this. Were there other iterations of this phenomenon that you worked out? Did you wonder at how best to balance this aspect of the book?

I have many more questions -- we could discuss all day how the concept of "Matrimony" fits the book -- how the book is also about friendship, and how the idea of friendship also dovetails with matrimony -- not to mention all my questions about how it feels to finish a book and to move on from it, which happens to be my own preoccupation at the moment. But I'll leave it here for now.


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I-You vs. I-Thou Relationships

Amy Sohn and Shmuley Boteach on the duties of modern parenting

To: Shmuley Boteach
From: Amy Sohn
Subject: I-You vs. I-Thou Relationships

Hi Shmuley,

I think you are wrong about today’s parents. A lot of parents want desperately to be good husbands, wives, and moms and dads, but have trouble giving their families the time and attention they need because they are so stressed about work. I live in a neighborhood with a fair number of self-employed or freelancer parents and I see them in the playground during the week, happy to be playing with their kids and to have the leisure to spend a few days a week with them. They – we – are lucky, because when you are self-employed you can make your own schedule, as I am sure you know. Most of the country does not have this luxury.

American businesses can treat their workers better, by giving more personal time, more paternity leave,Ten Pages of "I and Thou," Stat!: American families need more BuberTen Pages of "I and Thou," Stat!: American families need more Buber extended maternity leave (some months without pay if need be), on-site day care, and flexible hours. Today’s parents do want to spend time with their kids and spouses – but are hampered by unfair policies at work, creating a massive time crunch that leaves them unhappy at home and never fully present. This leaves them in an I-You relationship with their kids and spouse instead of I-Thou. In order to make the realization that your family requires as much care and attention as your job, you have to have the leisure to be able to reflect on things like that, to spend an hour or more a week talking to a therapist or a friend, to lie on the bed from time to time and ruminate on your quality of life. The families you visit on your show and the families on the nanny makeover shows obviously do not have that leisure time, which is why they need help to see what’s wrong.

You are right that women are more likely to be overworked than men, and in need of attention and focus from their husbands so that they can maintain a sense of their erotic and personal selves. But as someone who makes a living listening to the pulse of the American family, you should also know that in some families the dynamic is different. My husband cooks dinner 360 nights out of the year, twice a night, once for our toddler and once for the two of us. He cleans the apartment every week while I take our daughter out. He cares for her alone at least a day or two a week as well as many nights, when I, afraid that my life is over, must go out to hear live music, see a play or have drinks with a girlfriend.

Many men chip in with housework and childcare – look at any of the daddy blogs out there on the Internet – and feel pulled in two directions between work and home, just as women do. I always enjoy your soundbites like, “The history of relationships is that the female need for attention is rarely matched by the male attention span,” but these out-of-date stereotypes of American men as clueless Neanderthals hurt men and set us all back.

I know many men whoCan We Talk?: The overworked woman needs attention from hubbyCan We Talk?: The overworked woman needs attention from hubby seek out sex from their wives because they, the men, crave intimacy, and aren’t getting it. Men want closeness too. Men like slow sex even if they’re not always capable of having it, and men want to be held, complimented, and listened to. Men crave attention too – and even if they don’t need to be complimented on their physique on a daily basis (and some do!), they need to be appreciated for other things, like supporting their family, or cleaning up once in a while, or going out and taking the children. We all need more attention and more love. The challenge for today’s couples lies in figuring out how to love your partner the way your partner needs to be loved.

With regard to teen sexuality, I guess my feelings are complicated. Some teens are ready. Some aren’t. I don’t think you can say categorically that any teen sex is bad but yes, a lot of teens find themselves in situations for which they are not ready, even if they think they are. So yes, I am heartened that some teens are holding off because they want to meet the right person. If a girl’s first time is going to leave her bloody and terrified, better it be with someone who cares enough about her to hold her when it’s over, and who maybe, just maybe, can give her an orgasm, if not the first time then maybe by the fiftieth.

Lastly, Shmuley, there are days I wish I could go on your show. Unfortunately Charles is far too private. But when it’s six o’clock at night and my toddler is throwing a tantrum as I try to wash her hands for dinner, the TV is blaring Cops in the living room because my grandson-of-a-cop husband finds it soothing, and I have three deadlines to meet that night in order to make enough money to feed three mouths, I feel in desperate need of some shalom in the home.

L’hitraot,

Amy

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Would You Alienate the Only Source of Your Love?

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But It's Hubby's Fault!


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But It's Hubby's Fault

Amy Sohn and Shmuley Boteach on the duties of modern parenting

To: Amy Sohn
From: Shmuley Boteach
Subject: But It Is Hubby’s Fault

Dear Amy,

Nice to hear from you again.

The main reason why parents neglect their children is not because of the government. They do so because of the single criterion of success that prevails in the United States. We are only successful if we acquire money and professional acclaim. We are judged today not by the quality of our relationships but by the quantity in our bank accounts. This has caused the family meltdown in the United States. We all want to be a somebody, and nobody wants to be a nobody. And since our culture tells us that we are only a somebody when we gain the recognition of our peers, the recognition of our children is far less important by comparison. It will take a new definition of success, a much more wholesome, holistic definition, if we are to re-energize American parents to reinvest in their families and children. No doubt government policy can help that along. But in the final analysis the real effort must come from us.

Working Girl: My other office is my homeWorking Girl: My other office is my homeI am much more reluctant than you to blame women, married women, for putting on weight or giving up on their appearance than you are. And the hundreds of cases where I’ve seen this happen and have been involved as a counselor, it mostly involves a husband who was utterly neglectful of his wife. You mentioned that some women let themselves go despite entreaties on the part of their husbands. But entreaties are not what is necessary. It is rather an active focus of husband on wife that makes all the difference. Women today are overworked. They are the ones that have two jobs most of the time, not the husbands. They are the ones who work during the day and come home to more work at night. Why would any woman make an effort, in addition to all her other responsibilities, to look great when no one notices. The history of relationships is that the female need for attention is rarely matched by the male attention span.

I also strongly disagree that women today are forming, as you describe it, nearly incestuous relationships with their children. I do not think that a woman’s erotic needs are satisfied by a baby suckling at her breast. No baby could nave could never make her feel desirable as a woman. True eroticism is where someone lusts after you and needs you and desires you. Women are desperate for male attention and affection. But in the pornographic age in which we live, in which women are highly disrespected by men, turned into commodities, and a collection of assorted body parts, men just don’t know how to truly lust after one woman, they know only to lust after many. This is also something that should be changed if marriage is to survive and if women are not to throw in the towel and just give up on men. You will recall the New York Times cover story about three months ago that shocked the nation by reporting that 51% of women today live alone and without a man. So the tragic process is already happening.

By the way, I was surprised that you quoted statistics lauding the fall in teen sexuality when in the first letter you seem to be a proponent of teens exploring sex, something that I am vigorously opposed to.

On the subject of how my parents’ divorce impacted on the work I do now in trying to rescue families, Amy, I was honestly not avoiding your question. Rather I’ve written so much on the subject of how my parents’ divorce is the main cause of all the work I do today that I thought by now it was known. I love my father, am as close to him as I am to my mother, and I thrive in our relationship.

I decided to dedicate my new book to my mother because I wanted to take the opportunity to tell my mother and all the other mothers around America how much we children appreciate the phenomenal sacrifices that they make when the world demands so much of them.

Wishing you and your family all the very best and God bless you.

Yours sincerely,

Shmuley

To read Amy's closing letter, click here.

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Stop Blaming Husbands!

Amy Sohn and Shmuley Boteach on the duties of modern parenting

To: Shmuley Boteach
From: Amy Sohn
Subject: Stop Blaming Husbands!

Dear Shmuley,

Family Killers: The BlackberryFamily Killers: The BlackberryDon’t you think the reason today’s parents find work so exhausting is because the American workplace is still so unfriendly to families? Many companies still expect employees to be available at all hours and on weekends, when moms and dads want to be spending time with their kids. This has only gotten worse with the advent of Blackberries, cell phones, wireless Internet, and telecommuting, which make workers available around the clock.

As Judith Warner reported in her book Perfect Madness: Motherhood in the Age of Anxiety, more than a third of all working parents in America have neither sick leave nor vacation leave. In the late nineties, Warner reports, five years after the passage of the Family and Medical Leave Act, fewer than half of US workers were eligible for unpaid leave. And any who were eligible did not take advantage because of fears of repercussions at work. My tax dollars pay for day care for children of military personnel but if I want it for my own child, I have to shell out $12,000 a year. And it’s $25,000 if I want one-on-one care in the form of a full-time nanny.

DIK (dual income with kids) families are pulled in too many directions at once, stressed from work when they come home, guilty about time spent away from their kids even when they need personal time for their own sanity, and resentful of all the competing expectations. This is especially true of moms, who are expected to put their children ahead of work all the time, even if their companies penalize them for it by mommy-tracking them.

It’s no wonder, then, that, as Warner reports, a 2002 Gallup poll on stress and relaxation time found that families even with household incomes of over seventy-give grand were among the “most stressed’ households in America. And this is rich people. Our government needs to start putting families first with more universal pre-K, national standards for day care, paternity leave, longer maternity care, emergency day care in the workplace, and longer vacations.

Despite my pessimism about our government’s abandonment of the American family, I am more optimistic about our teenagers than you are, especially with regard to teen sex. Increased awareness of and discussion of sex has made kids smarter about it and more prudent than even my own generation of teens (I was fifteen in 1988.)

87% of Teens are Chaste: Or so say the pollsA recent NBC News and People poll that surveyed teens about their sexual attitudes and practices found that eighty-seven percent of teens aged 13 to 16 have not had sexual intercourse. And seventy-three percent have not been sexually intimate at all. Why? Nearly three-quarters of the virgins said they had not had sex because they “made a conscious decision not to” and three-quarters said it was because they believe they are too young. As for the active teens, nearly two in three said a principal reason they had sex for the first time was because they met the right person. Whether or not this is true, at least they are not treating sex as brazenly as you think.

But let me get back to the subject that brings you and me together: adult sex. We both agree that too many American married couples are in sexless marriages, but Shmuley, you put too much onus on the men. You are right to point out that low male libido is a plague – and I think it’s far more common than popular culture would have us believe.

You say in your book that women who have “let themselves go” do so because they feel that their husband doesn’t care how they look. And this is true for some. But many women, especially mothers, let themselves go in spite of active entreaties and compliments from their husbands. This is because the erotic needs that the husband once satisfied are now satisfied by the child – they get touch, physical affection, suckling (if breastfeeding), smell, and constant contact - and they don’t even have to wear lipstick to get it! The physical relationship with children, while not sexual, is sensual, all encompassing, luxurious and erotic enough to satisfy some of the same needs that sex once satisfied.

So when Dad comes home and demands sex, Mom doesn’t feel desire, because she already has a sensual partner in her newborn. Other women “let themselves go” because their sexuality was never that important to them in the first place (don’t worry, Shmuley, I’m not talking about myself) and they are relieved to have an excuse (the child) to refuse sex. This isn’t a problem if the husband has low desire too, but if he’s got high desire, Mom and Dad have got a serious problemo.

Mama's got a brand new bag: Feed the flame of your marriages, ladiesMama's got a brand new bag: Feed the flame of your marriages, ladiesWomen need to make a conscious effort to maintain a relationship to their own erotic selves throughout marriage. An erotic marriage is like a fire and if you don’t feed the flame with oxygen, it goes out. For women, the oxygen comes in many forms – erotic novels, movies, a flirtation at work, a crush on a movie star, intense eye contact with a stranger on a subway train, a pair of expensive footwear, a nice set of lingerie, a new Murakami novel. Too many women forget to “feed the flame” after childbirth because they simply don’t have the time or energy to devote to it. If a woman has desire, she will find a way to make love with her husband but after motherhood it takes more work to locate the desire, and women should be willing to put in the work.

And yet it seems that in our country, married sex is all but dead. I agree with you that, “the functional termination of a couple’s sex life is a functional termination of the marriage itself.” How sad, then, that The New York Times recently reported the results of a survey by the National Association of Home Builders in which “builders and architects predicted that more than 60 percent of custom houses would have dual master bedrooms by 2015” and some builders said that “more than a quarter of their new projects already do.” This article came only weeks after another Times article on co-sleeping, in which several affluent families admitted that one or more of the parents regularly slept in the child’s bed or had children in the parents’ bed with them.

How odd that you and I agree in so many areas. I believe that my own witnessing of a healthy married relationship (my parents’) has made me see the value of prioritizing my husband’s and my intimacy, now that I am a mother. Yes, kids need their parents to pay attention to them. But they also need their parents to love each other and show it.

I keep wondering whether it was your own parents’ divorce that led to your desire to “fix” other people’s marriages. I asked you about this in my first letter, but like a reluctant therapy patient, you ignored the question. How did your parents’ divorce come to inform your own interest in family life, your show, and your entire career? You dedicate your book to your mother. Do you speak to your father? Are you angry with him? Have you sought therapy? Come on, Shmuley. Give me an Oprah moment.

Amy

To read Shmuley's reply, click here.

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Would You Alienate the Only Source of Your Love?

Amy Sohn and Shmuley Boteach on the duties of modern parenting

To: Amy Sohn
From: Shmuley Boteach
Subject: Would Alienate Your Only Source of Love?

Hi Amy,

Thank you for your compliment about my apparent youth. Since many tell me I am an old soul, I will take your words as a compliment.

One Love: Irish Catholic or Jewish - who cares when it comes to children?One Love: Irish Catholic or Jewish - who cares when it comes to children?Your expression of “your people” puzzles me. I know of only one human family and one human nature. As John F. Kennedy said, “We all cherish our children’s future…” In other words, what we share in common by far outstrips that upon which we disagree. Similarly, your comments about sexism and xenophobia in the orthodox Jewish community are highly misguided. The definition of orthodoxy is an adherence to Torah law, and the Torah mandates the highest respect for women and a love for the stranger. On the contrary, the sexism that I witness is in secular society where, after sixty years of feminism women today are still valued more for their bust than for their brains, a heresy that is not practiced in orthodox Jewish society.

Be that as it may, I enjoyed your letter very much and you write extremely well.

The reason why parents cannot enforce discipline among their children today is three-fold. The first is physical exhaustion. Since we define success today primarily through our professional endeavors, that is where we exert out energy. There is very little of us left by the time we come home. And it is easier to give in to our kids and let them do their own thing then lay down the law. The second is guilt. So many parents do not give their children the attention they need. So they give in to them as a way of compensating for their neglect. The third is the most interesting of all. In an age where so many parents have bad marriages, they depend on their children as their principal source of affection.

Now, would you punish or alienate your only source of love?

That’s why one of the principal solutions to the lack of parental discipline is a more holistic definition of success, that embodies both the personal as well as the professional, and more passionate and intimate marriages.

I disagree profusely with your comments on teen sexuality. Indeed, research suggests that there is even a direct link between teen sexuality and teen depression. A study by the Heritage Foundation, in-turn based on the government-funded National Longitudinal Survey of Adolescent Health, found that about 25 percent of sexually active girls say they are depressed all, most or a lot of the time, while only 8 percent of girls who are not sexually active feel the same.

The kids are not all right: Teen sexuality has been linked to teen depressionThe kids are not all right: Teen sexuality has been linked to teen depressionWhile 14 percent of girls who have had intercourse have attempted suicide, only 5 percent of sexually inactive girls have. And whereas 6 percent of sexually active boys have tried suicide, less than 1 percent of sexually inactive boys have. The report challenges the previously held notion that teens become sexually active in order to self-medicate their own depressions.

"Findings from the study show depression came after substance and sexual activity, not the other way around," says researcher Denise Dion Hallfors of the Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation. The study, published in the American Journal of Preventive Medicine, analyzed data from a national survey of more than 13,000 teenagers in grades seven to 11.

Pretty tragic, huh, that it takes children slashing their wrists or sinking into a morbidly dark depression to awaken parents to the dangers of children engaging in activities that should be reserved exclusively for adults, and married ones at that.

Sex is the most powerful impulse known to man. It is as overpowering as it is pleasurable. Do you really think that those in a rickety boat should be exposed to this storm? How could we ever have believed that allowing big children detonate such powerful emotions, in empty relationships where neither party is sufficiently developed to assimilate such strong emotions, would do anything but eviscerate the emotional landscape of its child practitioners? Heck, we don't even let teenagers play with fireworks for fear of them blowing their own heads off. But we've given them the emotional equivalent of a nuclear blast.

Many parents mistakenly believe that the first job of a parent is to love their child, when really the primary responsibility of a parent is to protect their child from harm. You can't love that which is no longer extant. An object of love that is destroyed will forever remain unloved.

Thus, prior to loving your child, prior to teaching your child, prior to even to feeding your child, your first objective is to protect your child. Your role as guardian comes before any other. A parent who allows harm to come to his or her child is a parent who has been delinquent in the very fundamentals of child rearing.

Most parents believe that protection involves guarding children from physical harm. You lock the door at night so that your kids won't be injured by robbers. You drop them off at school so that they won't be abducted by kidnappers. You teach them how to cross the street safely so that they won't be hit by cars.

But protecting your children from external dangers is miniscule compared to the task of safeguarding them from absorbing influences that will corrupt them from the inside, and it is much easier to recover from physical scars than from their emotional equivalents.

You shouldn't want your MTV: Trash TV rots adolescent brainsYou shouldn't want your MTV: Trash TV rots adolescent brainsLook around and you'll see parents who take little kids to R-rated movies, who allow their kids to listen to and sing misogynistic melodies and sexual lyrics, and who let their kids play video games where the most graphic violence is the main selling point. I know otherwise responsible parents who smoke marijuana with their teenage kids, and I know parents who have no problem with their kids watching MTV and VH1 music video junk for hours a day. Indeed, parents today seem to have little compunction about the tremendous amounts of garbage from the popular culture being pumped directly into their children's cerebral cortex. Will we pretend that daily loads of toxic smut will not permanently coarsen our children, robbing them of their innocence and making them grow up preternaturally? By treating our children as young adults rather than big kids, we are allowing them to skip the childhood stage of life, which is essential to a strong foundation in their later years.

Healthy parenting involves the dual role of nurturer, on the one hand, and protector on the other. A child is like a sapling that requires water and nutrients, but also protection from weeds and pests. The unconditional love we give our children instills in them a sense of security and internalizes a feeling of value. If they are shortchanged of love, they will later grow to believe that things like money are currencies by which they may purchase an otherwise lacking self-esteem.

But unconditional love is just one side of the coin. All the watering in the world won't shelter a vulnerable plant that has been uprooted by a fierce wind. We have to shield our children from the increasingly malign influences of a culture that is telling them, subtly but constantly, to skip the essential stages of childhood and become an adult while they are really still kids. Exposure to gratuitous violence, sex and other uniquely adult subjects overwhelms children with emotions and experiences they cannot digest, sowing confusion and anxiety. It also imparts to them an inauthentic desire to prematurely discard the wonders of their youth and join an adult world that where they trade in awe for cynicism and conviction for compromises.

Our kids may not look like it, but they're crying out for a protector. It may seem that they just want to be left alone, that they crave unrestricted freedom and unbridled indulgence. But deep inside they want to be protected. They want someone to stop them from harming themselves. They want someone that says no. And if not you, the parent, then who?

One final thing, Amy. Please give my warm regards to your husband. And please tell him that aside from hating evil, hatred is something we should purge from our breast and eradicate from our heart.

G-d bless you and your family.

Shmuley

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Shalom in Whose Home?

Amy Sohn and Shmuley Boteach on the duties of modern parenting

 

I've known Rabbi Shmuley Boteach since 1999, when I was publicizing my first novel, Run Catch Kiss, and found myself a guest on a Fox News show with him. We were brought on as two opposite sides of a coin – he the conservative, family-values Jew, and I the provocative, twentysomething sex columnist.

Oprah’s favorite rabbi has flitted in and out of my life a couple times since then. My parents gave me Dating Secrets of the Ten Commandments for a birthday a few years back. Then, several months ago, I came in the living room after putting my daughter to bed to find my husband Charles watching Shalom in the Home, Shmuely’s popular parenting show on TLC that has inspired his latest book of the same name. It was the episode with the woman who nagged her children even when they made her breakfast, and I liked Shmuley’s way of dealing with her. Even Charles, who has a healthy skepticism of makeover shows, was impressed with his shrewd psychologizing.

Shmuley and I recently appeared on a panel at the JCC-Riverdale on the subject of sex. Again, we were brought on to be adversaries, but the most contentious things got was when I mocked the way women stop caring about their figures after motherhood and Shmuley felt I was too harsh. Still, I will never appear in public with this guy again: his sound bites are far too studied and funny for me to stand a chance of upstaging him.

Plus, in an orthodox Jewish setting (the audience was largely orthodox), the rabbi is a rock star, whereas a Jewess who’s written sexually themed novels is a pariah. You should have seen the looks they gave the big red lips on the cover of Run Catch Kiss.

Luckily, Jewcy has offered me the chance to play critic this time around.

– Amy Sohn

 

To: Shmuley Boteach
From: Amy Sohn
Subject: The Perils of Anti-Attachment Parenting

Dear Shmuley,

I’m sorry I was not able to attend your 40th birthday party (our mutual friend Scott invited me), although I was aghast that you are only 40 because your beard ages you, and curious to see what such a celebration would look like.

I live in Park Slope, near Prospect Park, and frequently observe “your people” walking with their many children on Sunday afternoons or playing in the Third Street Playground and I feel a mix of contempt, curiosity, and envy. As an iconoclastic, Brown-educated, sex-writing, feminist, raised Reform Jew, married to an atheistic, religion-hating, genetically Gentile son of divorce, and raising a baby girl with him, I find myself wondering what we the secular community might have to learn from the religious community. I despise the xenophobia, insane rigidity, homophobia and sexism of Orthodox Jews (who I will call here the frum) but I often envy their emphasis on the sanctity of marriage and honoring mother and father.

Dr. Phil meets Mamonides: Rabbi Shmuley Boteach This is in part because I feel so frustrated by American parenting today. When I look around me at the playground, the local Food Coop or 7th Avenue to see how other parents are raising their children, I am sickened by the total indulgence, lack of affection between parents, and general dog-wagging-the-tail. So what can the un-frum learn from the frum? This seems to me to be essence of your show Shalom in the Home and your new book Shalom in the Home: Smart Advice for a Peaceful Life.

Shmuley, I see you as the anti-attachment parent. You practice (at least on your show) detachment parenting. I agree with your belief in the importance of marital intimacy to family harmony. If children do not witness loving and sexual parents in the home, they will have no idea how to enter into healthy and loving relationships as adults. But in so many of the relationships I see, the children are the center of the family. Parents seldom go out alone or vacation alone, the sex life is nonexistent and by the time they begin to get it back they feel social pressure to have another baby – which only puts it on hold for another few years. Men look at online porn; women watch America’s Next Top Model, eat Ben & Jerry’s, and nurse chardonnays for the intimacy they’re no longer getting in their marriages.

Worse, both father and mother seek this intimacy from the children. When the baby awakens in the middle of the night they argue – not over who gets to ignore it, but over who gets to go in – so eager are they for the company the children provide. Email, newsgroups, television and the computer all offer a kind of connection, however false, that adults are no longer getting from each other.

So I am not surprised that in many of the scenarios on your show, the key to helping the family was to work on the couple. And I am certainly not surprised that in many of the families, one or more children were sleeping in the marital bed. Co-sleeping is in vogue these days, though its consequences are treacherous.

I also agree with your contention that too many American parents are afraid to discipline their children. Today’s parents are afraid to be the bad guy, to enforce boundaries – and this has already had unpleasant results for the children, with today’s high level of antidepressant use among young adults.

What twenty-year-old wouldn’t be depressed if he were raised to think he was the center of the universe? The Maxwell family in Chinatown was a glaring example of this. The 3-year-old son did not sleep in his own room, the father indulged his every whim, and the parents had a platonic relationship. I only wish Dr. Bill Sears, author of The Baby Book and the one who started this mess, could hear you say, “Withholding discipline in the name of loving our children is, in practical terms, to despise our children and to cause them grievous harm.”

Talk to the hand, Mommy: How do you cope with unruly kids?I recently visited a preschool program at a local synagogue and witnessed a child repeatedly hitting a teacher in the face. Eventually she was restrained but clearly someone at home was teaching this child that hitting was acceptable. I saw a father at a local restaurant allow his two-year-old to empty the entire contents of the saltshaker onto the table while they were waiting for their food. It’s one thing to give a kid a fork to bang – but to let her take the condiments hostage? I know several four-year-olds who insist on pooping in their diapers and a three-year-old whose mother must get in bed with her each night for up to an hour until she falls asleep, after which her mother sneaks out. What is going on here? Why are so many parents afraid of their own kids?

I do have two fundamental disagreements with your book. I do not think, as you say, that “teenaged sexual activity . . . robs them of their childhood and precious innocence.” I think much depends on the age of the adolescent and the relationship. Two seventeen-year-olds in a respectful, committed relationship may be more capable of lovemaking than two drunken twentysomethings who just met at a bar. And if a teenaged girl is lucky enough to have a committed partner who cares about her pleasure, she will compare future lovers to that first, attentive one, knowing that a man who doesn’t care about her pleasure isn’t worth it. Your categorical insistence on abstinence in teenaged years is naïve, out of touch, and will only encourage children to hide their activities from their parents instead of ask advice on such matters as birth control and STD production, advice they desperately need.

And I think in many of the families you visited you tried too hard to get them to forestall divorce when it was clear that divorce was the best thing for the children. Some of your interventions designed to bring separated couples together (like the Romeros) or keep conflicted couples together (like the Lubners) seemed forced and ill advised. Isn’t the best thing for a child two happy parents? As a child of divorce yourself, don’t you think your parents did you a favor – or are you agonized that they split up and trying to compensate for it in your show?

Amy

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A Kibitz on Pure Reason (Day Three)

The author of Betraying Spinoza on rationalism, passion, and great 17th-century hair

To: Rebecca Goldstein
From: Michael Weiss
Subject: Spinoza and Life of Quiet Seclusion

Dear Rebecca,

I’m sure my editors will be thrilled that I managed to coax a little fiction out of you for nothing – certainly not my intention but now everyone’s reward. I will admit that I did have your beau Pinker in mind when I gave that Spinozist spin on evolutionary psychology. I’m gratified it provoked such a Vidal Sassonish response. A linguist ex-girlfriend once made me read The Language Instinct, the value of which long outlasted the relationship. (I’m still not ready to concede that Spinoza was right about putting logos before ladies, however.) But if I may say so, it’s nice to see another great meeting of the minds take place in the 21st century, even if who does the dishes tonight is what they have to meet over.

However, I have a quibble with your play. I can’t see Spinoza being so high on his own supply before even a wilting and obnoxious intruder like Leibniz. Wasn’t he the consummate gentleman even to those he disdained or wished would let him get back to his lens crafting and mind expanding? He had plenty of friends and admirers, even in purdah. Granted, guests, like fish, begin to stink on the third day, but we are talking about one of the most impressive stoics of all time here… (Also, I’d change “dickens” to “devil” in your clincher. Stewart at one point has Leibniz facing his own “Waterloo” a full century before Napoleon set sail from Corsica.)

Cold Water on Bakunin: Isaiah Berlin's "Russian Thinkers" gave Stoppard a good ideaCold Water on Bakunin: Isaiah Berlin's "Russian Thinkers" gave Stoppard a good ideaI quite enjoyed your shadow-bathed collapse of the fourth wall, and as for your preferred playwright, I’m inclined to agree that Stoppard beats Frayn for these purposes. I’m dying to see The Coast of Utopia and I really don’t understand the critics who say being wheedled into picking up Isaiah Berlin’s Russian Thinkers in order to “get” the references is somehow the fault of the playwright. Good art, like good philosophy, ought to be challenging.

And Stoppard has a knack for making the esoteric if not quite accessible, then very enjoyable. He did this with The Invention of Love, with Greek and Latin philology. One scene that now reminds me of our Baruch is set in the Underworld and features Oscar Wilde – prior to this a whispered rumor on the quadrangles of Victorian Cambridge – confronting the repressed poet A.E. Housman. Wilde bangs on in the spirit of, I did this and I did that, I suffered for my genius, and where the hell were you? “In my room,” comes the reply.

My attraction to books like yours, Rebecca, have to do with recognizing that rebellions that happen behind closed doors can be just as costly, in human terms, as the ones that happen at the barricades. For Spinoza, the choice between being a man of ideas and a man of action was no choice at all, really. This offers posterity a number of interesting what-ifs.

Consider: Spinoza’s landlord physically restrains him from running out the door to protest the brutal murders of the liberal de Witt brothers by a Dutch mob. His famous Caute, then, is preserved, if involuntarily. Does that make Spinoza more or less heroic as a case study? Pre-Enlightenment Victims: Johan and Cornelius de WittPre-Enlightenment Victims: Johan and Cornelius de WittTwo luckless victims of a hysterical medievalism had the power to stunt the progress of civilization, by causing one of civilization’s brightest lights to be extinguished; that they didn’t is almost enough to lend credence to the idea of providence. Certainly the centrality of the individual in history can’t be ignored. If there’s one failing in Spinoza’s philosophy, it’s that it scants on the importance of people like Spinoza. Arthur Koestler called the death of Rubashov in Darkness at Noon the “shrug of eternity.” Our philosopher would have liked that, but nuts to poor Rubashov!

Mention of this anti-Communist classic brings up another topic you touched on in your last letter. The insistence that all facts have reasons for being facts has wreaked havoc on the recently departed century. Not least among the tragedies has been the transformation of Spinoza into a forerunner of such havoc – his rationalism transformed into a license to kill by those who sapped the humanity right out of his worldview.

It was all there in black and white, in The Ethics, the guide on how to be good that made Bertrand Russell see its author as the primus inter pares of deep-thinking mensches. Yet Marxism-Leninism glorified Spinoza, just as Nazism did Nietzsche. (Old Communist way of beginning a sentence: “It is no accident that…” Talk about making a hash of the Principle of Sufficient Reason.)

Now, you spilled a great deal of ink in your last bio rescuing Gődel from the postmodernists, who had co-opted his theorem as a vindication of there being not just an infinity of possible realities, but no “best” of the bunch. What can be done about keeping Spinoza away from future line cooks who read Deus sive nature as a recipe for omelets requiring so many broken eggs?

Obviously, you’ve got a vested interest in this operation since you’re head over heels for Baruch. Love remains a strong ingredient in your biography writing, indeed, in all of your writing. (Your novel The Mind-Body Problem cleverly nourishes this motif across two genres.)

Is it more natural, do you suppose, that a woman be guided by these strong emotional attachments, which she freely confesses to having, to the figures she profiles? That you stifle your own instincts to “cozy up” too much to your subjects – my first reaction to this was that it was self-conscious check on appearing too girly.

Living Sub Specie Aeternitatis: Rebecca GoldsteinLiving Sub Specie Aeternitatis: Rebecca GoldsteinI say this not out of sexism but for a very specific reason. We just got into the office The Modern Jewish Girl’s Guide to Guilt. As there was simply no way I’d be letting that volume slip unnoticed into the dust pile, I opened it to find a touching and funny essay by you entitled, “Philosophers With Wombs.” It’s all about the delicate balancing act of living the life of the mind while being a young bride and getting pregnant.

You had to put up with the obvious Jewish pressures, from your mother and mother-in-law to go domestic, but more intriguing (to me) was how your female department chair gave you the kind of feminist guilt-trip that gets Caitlin Flanagan knocking down her nanny to get the keyboard each morning. In light of our correspondence, I was struck by the following:

“I’d always been able to place myself at a rational distance from life, viewing it from the outside, as it were, abstracting from the identities of the various agents in the situation, even if I were one of them. This sort of extreme objectivity is what the philosophers call the view sub specie aeternitatis – under the guide, or the form, of eternity. The view has much to recommend it, but not if you want to be a mother. Just try keeping your baby alive and contentedly gurgling while living sub specie aeternitatis.”

Who but the author of Betraying Spinoza could have written that? Somewhere I think Mrs. Schoenfeld, your old yeshiva teacher, is smiling.

This was a real delight, Rebecca.

Thank you,

Michael

To: Michael Weiss
From: Rebecca Goldstein
Subject: The Insistently Rational are Dunces at Life

Dear Michael,

Well, I did take note of, and distinct pleasure in, your allusion to evolutionary psychology in your last go-round. You’re quite right that there's a sort of parallelism in the fallacious accusations hurled against both Pinkerism and Spinozism; to wit that they both recklessly throw open the window to let in the poisoned fumes of fatalism, not to speak of putting out the welcome mat for that stinking rotter, relativism. And it's interesting, too, how both points of view rile people up by insisting that the facts, being facts, must be faced, not to be shouted down by "moral" objections. What kind of morality would that be that has to insist on a false view of the facts? A priori moralizing does not make for much of a research program. Spinoza was insistent that the facts of the world and moral facts form one seamless whole.

The Play's the Thing: Stoppard v. MendelsohnThe Play's the Thing: Stoppard v. MendelsohnYou bring up The Invention of Love. Do you remember Daniel Mendelsohn's argument with Tom Stoppard in the pages of (where else?) The New York Review of Books? It was an amusing back-and-forth, as I remember it, which means, of course, that it got personal and downright nasty. Mendelsohn had accused Stoppard, in his review of The Invention of Love, of being, at heart-- despite his razzle-dazzle display of familiarity with the language of philosophers, classicists, and such—a lowdown philistine, siding with the "the-heart-has-its-reasons-of-which- reason-is-ignorant" crowd, which is, of course, an enormously large crowd, containing almost everyone except you and me—and I'm not so sure about you. This explains, Mendelsohn intimated, Stoppard's staggering popularity, despite his grand allusions.

I don't agree with Mendelsohn in his damning verdict of Stoppard's ouevre, though he did make a valid point, which is that Stoppard (I would say like so many artists—like even myself in certain [early] novels) sometimes sets up a false dichotomy between sterile reason, on the one hand, and the ardent emotions, on the other, with, quite predictably, the ardent emotions triumphing by story's end as the true wisdom.

The insistently rational are dunces at life. All of that exercise at splitting hairs pumps up the brain and shrivels the, um, heart. If you're going to trot sesquipedalian intellectuals out on the stage then you'd better make sure they end up looking like losers and/or see the folly of their incessant cerebration before the curtain goes down if you want to win favor with the matinee crowd.

Mendelsohn, I remember, got off a wonderful line to the effect that Stoppard, intellectual playwright though he's perceived—and self-perceived—to be, seems to have no clue that the mind can be a passionate organ, too. This reminds me of one of my own better lines from one of those early novels that could be tarred with the same Mendelsohnian brush: "The problem with you, Renee, is that you seem to think that the male sexual organ is the brain."

Whether Stoppard is really guilty as Mendelsohn charges, I'm not prepared to say. Arcadia seemed to me to rouse the romance of reason quite wonderfully. But certainly there is a tradition in fiction of presenting thinking—when taken too far—as leading to a life devoid of feeling and passion. And this of course is a terrible lie, since thinking— especially when taken too far—is itself a passion. Mendelsohn described Stoppard as a romantic, meaning it unkindly, but this language itself undercuts what I think is Mendelsohn's very good point, which is that a thinker's relationship to reason can be utterly romantic.

Plato, of course, is very good on this subject, and so, for that matter, is Spinoza, though, since he reserves the word "passion" for our irrational emotions, he wouldn't put it in quite the same way. But Spinoza's Amor Dei Intellectualis, the Intellectual Love of God, is a swooningly passionate attitude. It's love, The Real Thing, to use one of Stoppard's titles. Spinoza's theory of the emotions denies the split between thinking and feeling. Thinking is always emotional and emotions are always making cognitive claims (which is why we can correct our emotions, circle them in red like errors in arithmetic).

A story like I.B. Singer's "The Spinoza of Market Street," which is one of my favorites, nevertheless has that anti-intellectual itch that Mendelsohn scratches at in Stoppard. That insufferably Spinozistic loftiness that's snuffing the life out of poor Dr. Fischelsohn is shown up for the pathetic hollow thing that it is by a sweet night of loving with Black Dobbe.

All This Philosophy, It's No Good: I.B. SingerAll This Philosophy, It's No Good: I.B. Singer“Dr. Fishelsohn lay down on the freshly made bed in his room and began reading The Ethics. Dobbe had gone back to her own room. The doctor had explained to her that he was an old man, that he was sick and without strength. He had promised her nothing. Nevertheless she returned wearing a silk nightgown, slippers with pompoms, and with her hair hanging down over her shoulders. There was a smile on her face, and she was bashful and hesitant. Dr. Fischelsohn trembled and The Ethics dropped from his hands. The candle went out. Dobbe groped for Dr. Fischelsohn in the dark and kissed his mouth. ‘My dear husband,’ she whispered to him, ‘Mazel tov.’”

Mazel tov, indeed, as Singer goes on to slyly tell us. Dr. Fischelsohn wins that windfall of a mighty fine mazel by yielding to his trembling and dropping The Ethics. That's what he gets that mazel tov for.

It's a great story, one of Singer's best, but the upshot is that there's reason, on the one hand, and there's life-affirming energy, on the other, and art is in alliance with the good stuff.

It's tempting for artists, in a certain sense it's even natural for artists, who after all are supposed to be masters and celebrants of passion and feeling, to fashion stories that demonstrate the superiority of feeling over reason. I think I once read Singer as actually saying that all stories are, at heart, about this. I think that comment might have been quoted in his Forward obituary. Anyway, what this dichotomy overlooks is that the devotion to reason, well, it's a passion, and it can be as destructive or as redemptive as the more literarily favored sort, as a night, say, with blushing Black Dobbe, and therefore it shouldn't be treated simplistically in fiction, and thanks for remarking that I don't.

But if the insistence on reason is itself a passion and can go as berserk as any other passion, then how can we protect Spinoza from perversion?

You ask me this, Michael, and damn if I know how to answer. Every means we have for trying to get at the truth can run afoul. Insistence on strict logical consistency, if it starts out in the wrong direction, will take us much deeper into the quagmire than carefree contradiction. How wonderfully you put it, and modestly depositing it in a parenthesis, no less: "Old Communist way of beginning a sentence: 'It is no accident that…' Talk about making a hash of the Principle of Sufficient Reason."

The one quite practical piece of advice to be abstracted from Spinoza is to mistrust your reasoning if it leads you to a personally flattering cosmic view, one that grants you a privileged position in the narrative of the world's unfolding, in the way that, say, certain religions tend to. Suspect that's just your conatus going cross-eyed with delusions of grandeur.

Spinoza, in merging thinking and feeling, and deriving our feelings from our conatus—our desire to persist in our own being, to flourish and expand ourselves into the world—also derives that our thinking tends to swerve dangerously toward self-aggrandizement. We've got that tendency. All of us. Keeping it in check would go a long way toward ridding us of some of the more dangerous perversions in reasoning.

Humor, too, always helps. Spinoza's humor, which I'm glad you appreciate as much as I, is a serious ploy. Eternity shrugs at us? Humor is our shrugging back at eternity.

The pleasure truly has been mine, Michael.

Here's shrugging,

Rebecca

Previous Entries for This Dialogue:

A Kibitz on Pure Reason (Day One)

A Kibitz on Pure Reason (Day Two)

RELATED: Zbigniew Herbert's poem "Mr. Cogito Tells of the Temptation of Spinoza." [The Daily Shvitz]


more »

A Kibitz on Pure Reason (Day Two)

The author of Betraying Spinoza on rationalism, passion, and great 17th-century hair

To: Rebecca Goldstein
From: Michael Weiss
Subject: All Philosophy is Self-Betrayal

Dear Rebecca,

So Gődel’s Mad Hatter routine was as constant off the page as on it. I know focusing on the private eccentricities of genius can easily degenerate into a kind of Good Will Hunting kitsch-fest. Einstein kibitzing with his barber is automatically judged worthy of the sententious Quote-a-Day treatment.

Another Acute Psychologist (With a "Great Personality"): George EliotAnother Acute Psychologist (With a "Great Personality"): George EliotBut this type of thing really can’t be avoided, can it? We need to know that the elect members of the species are made of the same damp clay as the rest of us, subject to the same passions and frailties. If anything, they suffer more acutely because of their gifts, as if nature meant to imprison them in a holding cell whose keys remain visible but just out of reach. (Anthony Lane had a great line recently that there’s something encouraging about the even distribution of endowments: we take comfort in knowing, for instance, that George Eliot looked like Sea Biscuit.)

I quite liked your narcissism quote, although my Penguin translation of The Ethics doesn’t put it so poetically as that – a shame, given the citations of Ovid with which Spinoza peppered a few of his axioms. This lure towards the romantic furnishes us with a clue, I think, about Baruch’s unacknowledged biases, since he thought the antique pangs of a fellow outcast fit for such a hyper-rationalist treatise on how best to stifle those pangs. Augustus likely gave Ovid the boot for his decadence and estimation of eros above the stuffy political conservatism and jingoism of imperial Rome. Spinoza had his own epicurean tastes, so I wonder if the frequent nods to the love poet aren’t further evidence of his inner warmth despite the outer carapace.

My suspicion is that his ethical scope was more sympathetic than he lets on, the result of remembering how quickly Rabbi Morteira turned on him and wondering what such an experience must be like for someone without the intellectual fortitude to cope with it. “Love conquers hate” may be reassuring, especially when “proved” by Euclidean means, but is it not also the projection of a horribly mistreated boy?

What’s amazing to me is that Spinoza didn’t grow up to be a misanthrope, but one of the kindest philosophers the West has ever known. I estimate humor pretty highly on the list of moral virtues, and it’s a good sign that the stuff is everywhere in his writing. Baruch is expert in gauging the different registers of laughter, from the sinister and mirthless to the ecstatic and transcendent:

“I recognize a great difference between mockery and laughter. For laughter and joking are pure joy. And so, provided they are not excessive, they are good through themselves. Nothing forbids our pleasure except a savage and sad superstition. For why is it more proper to relieve our hunger and thirst than to rid ourselves of melancholy?”

"Irony Is the Glory of the Slaves": Polish poet Czeslaw Milosz"Irony Is the Glory of the Slaves": Polish poet Czeslaw MiloszThe pedantic bores are always in this guy’s sights, as they have been in for the great anti-totalitarian writers of our time: Milan Kundera, Czeslaw Milosz, Nabokov with his “laughter in the dark.” (Another favorite joke of mine from The Ethics is the quip about false modesty, where Spinoza quotes Cicero to the effect that those who object to ambition in others always seem to attach their own names prominently to the objections.)

Since you brought it up, I very much wonder about that Nietzsche swipe. It reeks of the anxiety of influence, doesn’t it? God’s better-marketed obituarist once described a joke as the “epitaph on the death of a feeling.” Yes, well, Spinoza performed the major inquests two hundred years earlier.

Even if The Ethics does come off a tad baroque at times, the initial damage it inflicts is a healthy one. It forces you to become self-aware because you feel as if you’re the one slipped under the microscope. Spinoza’s greatest achievement is precisely the one you implicate by “betraying” him: in order to have examined human nature with such high levels of magnification, the technician must have ground his lenses by using his own foibles and prejudices as ready test specimens. All philosophy is self-betrayal in this respect.

Of course, the very idea of human nature gets us into trouble in the age of postmodern gobbledygook, cultural relativism, and endowed chairs in Anthropology. Evolutionary psychologists have a tough time explaining what should be commonsensical to all: that we are beholden to our genetic wiring. Oh, no! How pessimistic to think in terms of “determinism.” But determinism, properly understood, is actually closer to probability, which means that a chromosome is not slavery so much as indentured servitude. Reason, and the constant struggle against impulses, is the price one must pay for manumission, as Spinoza realized long before “chromosome” was a term in the lexicon. Notice, for instance, how he inveighs against the concept of cognitive free will by showing that we have no control over the content of our dreams:

[T]hese decisions of the mind arise by the same necessity as the ideas of things which actually exist. Those, therefore, who believe that they either speak or are silent, or do anything from a free decision of the mind, dream with open eyes.

“Dream with open eyes” sounds like the title of a symposium on Freud.

This hardly exhausts Spinoza’s modern relevance. The brave Somali dissident Ayaan Hirsi Ali has fled her adopted homeland of Holland after becoming too high-profile a critic of a religion she was raised to believe in unquestioningly. Sounds familiar. And, in addition to your book, Matthew Stewart has recently come out with a shrewd Straussian re-evaluation of Spinoza’s influence on Gottfried Leibniz, that Hanoverian yes-man of the monad and summer crusade.

Spinoza Fever: Matthew Stewart's re-evaluation of a famous antagonismSpinoza Fever: Matthew Stewart's re-evaluation of a famous antagonismHave you read The Courtier and the Heretic? Stewart argues persuasively that Leibniz, for all his outward scorn toward the heretic Jew disrupting the status quo, was a covert atheist himself. He never recovered from Spinoza’s arguments, nor from the weeklong conversation the two men had in The Hague. (Am I the only one who desperately wants Michael Frayn to adapt this exchange for the stage?)

As The Ethics might have demonstrated, “hating” Spinoza was Leibniz’s way of dealing with the shock of spotting something of himself in the braver, better philosopher.

So I wonder how misguided the current refrain “Why they hate us” is with respect to Islamic fundamentalists. How many of our blood-boltered enemies abroad really pine for the principles of an open society they claim to deplore? Spinoza gives us hope that there might after all be a few unacknowledged unbelievers scurrying through dark caves in Waziristan, even as I write this.

As ever,

Michael

To: Michael Weiss
From: Rebecca Goldstein
Subject: Et in Arcadia Non Ego

Dear Michael:

Utopia Is Undisturbed Study: Tom Stoppard presents "Leibniz and Spinoza"?Utopia Is Undisturbed Study: Tom Stoppard presents "Leibniz and Spinoza"?I agree that the four or so days that Leibniz and Spinoza spent holed up in the Hague, throwing back Dutch brewskies and comparing proofs for God's existence, could make for intriguing theater. But Lord, do please keep Michael Frayn away from it! Anyone who mangled Einstein as Frayn did in Copenhagen—-making that redoubtable scientific realist out to be the leader of the simpering "physics-isn't-really-about-reality-after-all" pack—-is not the right sort to treat the über-realist, über-rationalist likes of Spinoza and Leibniz. I wouldn't mind Tom Stoppard's having a go at it, though. Stoppard's got the intellectual goods to see what those two really had going between them.

And by the way, it's not at all obvious to me, as passionately attached as I am to Spinoza, that he was the better philosopher compared to Leibniz. Perhaps our light-hearted communication isn't