Wed, Jul 09, 2008

User login

DIALOGUE
Why Such Colossal Favoritism Toward Mexicans?
If you want to give foreigners a better life, why not bring them in from Burundi?

From: John Derbyshire
To: Gideon Aronoff
Subject: Pardon my goyish skepticism, but...

Gideon,

Every statement of immigration restrictionism should begin with the observation that British restrictionist Enoch Powell took pains to include in all his speeches on the topic: Numbers are of the essence. This seems to be especially difficult for us Americans, with our individualist ethos, to grasp. The settlement of one (or ten, or a hundred) people from Algeria, Bangladesh, or Chile is of no consequence to America's future. The settlement of ten million is of mighty consequence. An individualist approach to immigration issues, while occasionally illuminating, does not scale up well.

After many exchanges of this kind, to-ing and fro-ing with advocates of lax immigration policies, I have come to the conclusion thaA Patriot. And Numerate, Too.: Enoch Powell understood that, with immigration, "numbers are of the essence."A Patriot. And Numerate, Too.: Enoch Powell understood that, with immigration, "numbers are of the essence."t the real gulf in immigration talk is not between conservative and liberal, cruel and kind, nativist and xenophile, or practical and sentimental. It is between those who are keen to discuss numbers and those who, for whatever reason, are unwilling to do so.

Your response (which, if you don't mind my saying so, is not really a response, more a mission statement) to my first post illustrates this truth in several places. Your second paragraph, for example, has this:

Today, we are witnessing a striking parallel to our own Jewish American history, as Latin Americans, Asians and others clamber to get into America like we did...

I'm afraid I don't see the parallel at all.

If, as I insist, numbers are of the essence, then we should scrutinize the numbers in the two cases. In 1900 there were about 11.2 million Jews in the world. About 9.0 million were in Europe; about 5.2 million in the Russian Empire (which at that point included Poland). The population of the U.S.A. in 1900 was 76.2 million. The worldwide pool of Jews from which the "great wave" came therefore represented about fifteen percent of the receiving population. The actual pool so far as the main sending countries were concerned was a tad more than half that— let us be generous and say ten percent. (And let us note that both figures are slightly inflated by the fact of substantial Jewish immigration 1881-1900.)

Now to your "parallel." Leaving aside "others" (I am determined to be generous to your argument!) your Latin American and Asian total—depending on precise definitions, and again I am trying to be generous to you, taking only the 1999 figures—is about 5,780 million. Dividing by the current population of the U.S.A. (estimated at 301.1 million) I get a sending-pool to receiving-population ratio of 1,920 percent.

Fifteen percent... ten percent... 1,920 percent... Forgive me, Gideon, but I don't quite see your "parallel"—though I'll admit that the numbers are indeed "striking."

Just so with all your other assertions, when I try to reduce them to numbers. You say, for example, that: "American immigrants founded or co-founded some of the world's most prominent tech companies, among them Intel, Sun Microsystems, eBay, Yahoo! and Google."

Well, let's see. Wikipedia lists a total of eleven people as founders of those five companies. Of the eleven, five are foreign-born: one each from Germany, India, France, Taiwan, and Russia. If you want to slice the cake a bit thinner, you can note that the French-born entrepreneur (Pierre Omidyar) is of Iranian parentage, while the Russian one (sergey Brin) is Jewish.

A cautious conclusion one might draw is that our immigration policy ought preferentially to admit more Germans, Indians, French-Iranians, Taiwanese, and Russian Jews. Further thought suggests that if (as is apparently the case), you, Gideon, want U.S. immigration policy to have, as one of its aims, the growth of imaginative entrepreneurship in our country, we ought to carry out a close numerical analysis of entrepreneurship by country of origin, education level, religious affiliation, and so on. Depending on what that tells us, we could then adjust our immigration policy to favor the most entrepreneurial groups.

Such studies have in fact been done. Here is one (though a bit out of date, I'm afraid—a more current one might throw the argument in your favor...) from the Center for Immigration Studies. Sample quotes:

...The difference between Middle Eastern immigrants who have a self-employment rate of 28.2 percent, the highest of any region, and the self-employment rate of 4.8 for Central Americans, the lowest of any region, is extremely large. By region of origin, immigrants from Europe, the Middle East, and Canada ... have self-employment rates that are four or more percentage points higher than those of natives. In contrast, immigrants from Mexico ... and Central America have self-employment rates that are more than four percentage points lower.

Koreans, Cubans, Canadians, and immigrants from the United Kingdom have the highest self-employment rates, while immigrants from El Salvador, Guatemala, Mexico, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, and the Philippines have the lowest rates of self-employment. There is also significant variation within regions. For example, Cuban immigrants are much more entrepreneurial than Haitian or Dominican immigrants, even though they are all from the Caribbean.

Age and education ... do not account for all of the differences between immigrant groups. For example, 27.5 percent of college-educated Middle Eastern immigrants between the ages of 35-44 are self-employed. In contrast, college-educated Mexican immigrants in the same age group have a self-employment rate of only 10.5 percent. Thus, much of the difference between the two groups remains even after controlling for these two factors.

It is clear that current immigration policy does not produce a flow of immigrants that fundamentally alters the overall level of entrepreneurship in the United States.

Under a perfectly open immigration policy, several hundred millions, perhaps two or three billions, of people would come to settle in the U.S.A. This prospect is absolutely unacceptable to the American people. (Trust me on this one, Gideon.) It follows inescapably that U.S. immigration policy must perforce be selective. We must—we must—say to this one: "Yes, you may come and settle in our country." We must say to that one: "No, you may not come to settle in our country." We—we, the people, the citizens of America, not the Wall Street Journal editorial board, nor Gideon Aronoff, nor John Derbyshire—we Americans must decide, by consensus, how many immigrants we want, from where, with what skills and education.

If we shirk this decision, as in fact we have, we shall just get great numbers of people from nearby poor countries, with a weighting towards those willing to break American laws. Hence our huge population of Mexicans and Central Americans, unknown numbers of them present here in defiance of our laws. The 2000 census showed—see Table 2 here—Mexico running away with the percentage of our foreign-born population, at 29.5 percent. Number two, China (including Taiwan and Hong Kong) was far behind at 4.9 percent. France and Russia do not even appear in the top ten. El Salvador sends us more people than Germany. Perhaps, Gideon, you can point me to a high-tech company founded by a Salvadoran immigrant?

Since, as I have noted above, U.S. immigration policy cannot help but be selective, we really ought to give some thought to the selection criteria. Why such colossal favoritism towards Mexicans, for example? Mexico is not even a particularly poor country. Of the 179 nations listed here by per capita annual GDP, Mexico ranks No. 54 with $8,066. El Salvador is No. 98 with $2,619. Good grief: 47 countries—count 'em, 47!—have per capita GDP less than one-tenth of Mexico's. What about the struggling people of Cambodia ($503), Madagascar ($299) and Burundi ($119)? Around five billion people worldwide are poorer than the average Mexican. Are you not outraged, Gideon, that these unfortunates have such vanishingly small representation among our foreign-born population? Where's that famous Jewish compassion?

Having exceeded my word count, I can offer only sketchy responses to your other points—though if you would like me to expand on anything, please say so, and I shall.

To your invocations of the Torah and Talmud, I am afraid I must respond with goyish skepticism. The one thing that is plain to even the most casual inquirer into Judaism is that it is an exclusivist religion. What, otherwise, does the phrase "chosen people" mean? Many commentators fluent in the relevant languages and studies (this commentator, for example) tell us that "stranger" in these texts means "Jewish stranger." Some of these commentators tell us that the extension to Gentiles is a result of the Enlightenment liberalization of classical Judaism; some, that it is a well-intentioned but ignorant misapplication of the texts; some, that it is part of the conscious deception Jews engage in when presenting themselves to Gentiles. I am not competent to judge which, if any, of these commentators is correct. I must tell you, though, that if you want to confront the Kevin MacDonalds of the world, you had better be ready with responses to points of this kind. "The Torah says..." will pass with a general audience. With a skeptical—not even necessarily antisemitic—audience, you will have to do better.

The rest of your questions:

"How generous should we be to people who are fleeing persecution?" Not very, would be my answer. (1) It is in the nature of persecuting regimes that actual evidence of persecution is hard to come by, so there will be many bogus refugees. (2) The U.S. government should place the interests of U.S. citizens before all other considerations. Some people are persecuted for excellent reasons. The fanatical (and fanatically antisemitic) Muslim Brotherhood is savagely persecuted in Egypt and other Arab countries. Will you be generous to them? (3) Where persecution is the norm in a country, that country needs major reform. The only people who can carry out such reform are the people of that country. As Dr. Johnson observed, sometimes martyrdom is the only test of truth.

"If we practically can’t deport 12 million people..." Your premise is false. Not only can it be done, it has been costed. The National Policy Institute will email you Ed Rubinstein's report, whose conclusion is that: "No matter how high the costs of deporting illegal aliens may seem, the costs of not deporting them are larger still." (Ed actually computed the cost at "between $41 billion and $46 billion annually over five years." That's about the cost of 92 Space Shuttle launches a year.) The Eisenhower administration deported, or caused to self-deport, several hundred thousand illegal aliens in a few months, and it didn't even make newspaper headlines.

"What policies best serve to promote the integration of newcomers?" Well, some diversity would help. One of the most troubling aspects of our immigrant numbers in recent years has been the decline in diversity.

"Since we can't accept everyone in the world, what are the criteria for a controlled, liberal immigration system?" Aha! Why don't we ask the American people? But I am very glad to know that we are in at least general agreement on this central point: Numbers are of the Essence.

NEXT: The Torah, the Talmud, and the Undocumented Worker


John Derbyshire is a columnist for National Review. His most recent book is Unknown Quantity, a history of algebra, published by Joseph Henry Press in May 2006.


More...

Anonymous


Today's large scale

Today's large scale immigration from Latin America is very different from yesterday's wider but shallower form for the following reasons.

1. Latino immigrants, once obtaining citizenship, and their US born children are immediately eligible for large-scale racial/ethnic preferences in college admissions and public/private sector hiring.  Such Affirmative Action did not exist during the Great Wave of European immigration.

2. Yesterday's immigrants were forced to assimilate via the system of public schools for children and settlement houses for adults.  The doctrine of multiculturalism did not exist in the late 19th-early 20th century.  Today, Latino children are often taught in Spanish.  The superiority of Mexican/Central American culture is celebrated while American history and values are denigrated in U.S. public schools.

3. Today's Latino immigrants benefit from a large-scale welfare state that did not exist during the great wave.  Such benefits extend from food stamps for US-born children, even if the parents are here illegally, to massive Federal entitlements in the form of free school breakfasts and lunches, Title I funding and free private tutoring in NCLB-sanctioned schools. 

4. Perhaps a minority, but a significant one of Latino immigrants view the U.S. Southwest as either part of Mexico, or a separate nation of "Aztlan."  No other immigrant group makes such territorial claims.

Finally, I am perplexed as to why Mr. Aronoff sees such large-scale immigration as a good thing for the Jews.  Anti-defamation league surveys consistently find 35% of Hispanic Immigrants in the most anti-semitic category.  This is in contrast to whites for whom only 9% fall in the category of most anti-semitic.





zbird


once again Derbeyshire is using voo doo numbers

Why does he compare the total number of immigrants today with the number of Jewish immigrants 100 years ago?  It would make far more sense to compare the total number immigrants today to the TOTAL number of immigrants 100 years ago (including Irish, Italians, Germans, Japanese, Polish.....).  The fact that Derbeyshire compares apples to oranges indicates that comparing apples to apples would produce numbers that undermine his argument. 

--Z





RonL


Derbyshire

Why are you stacking the deck with gentile like Derbyshire instead of asking a conservative or anti-immigration Jew?

Dan Stein, Don Feder, or Stephen Steinlight are better choices





Anonymous


RE: once again Derbeyshire is using voo doo numbers

>>It would make far more sense to compare the total number immigrants today to the TOTAL number of immigrants 100 years ago

Isn't comparing percentage figures a more fair analysis?





Anonymous


The numbers

The numbers make sense if you read the previous articles in the thread. I agree wholeheartedly with this article.





Anonymous


Organized Jewry, Third World immigration and Kevin Macdonald

Dear Mr. Derbyshire,

 

I greatly enjoy your work and respect the opinions you put forth.  However, your mere passing reference to Professor Kevin Macdonald, in a discussion of immigration in a Jewish forum does an injustice, I believe, to the objective of having a full and frank airing of the facts.

 

As you know, no one has done more thorough and exhaustive work to demonstrate the indisputable link between organized Jewry and the promotion of Third World immigration to the United States.  Dr. Macdonald conclusively shows who has promoted this immigration to our country and convincingly explains their motives.

 

Let’s be honest, a people who think of themselves as separate and apart from the nation in which they are living find it easy to offer sanctuary to interlopers, especially in a zero sum game of diluting the influence of their perceived competitors.

 

As a reformed leftist and multi-culturalist, I can thank organized Jewry and its role in orchestrating the Iraq War for my conversion on the road to Damascus—Bagdad or Tehran for that matter.  If it weren’t for your helping me discover Dr. Macdonald, I might still think Judaism is something other than a “group evolutionary strategy”.

 

The Culture of Critique by Kevin Macdonald is indispensable for anyone who wants to understand the Third World (including Mexican) invasion of America and organized Jewry’s role in it.  The added bonus is getting to understand its role in pseudosciences like Boasian Anthropology, Freudian Psychology, Marxism, etc.

 

Avi Marranazo





Post new comment

  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <i> <strong> <strike> <b> <cite> <code> <u> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd> <p> <br> <img> <blockquote>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
  • Images can be added to this post.

More information about formatting options

Captcha
This question is for testing whether you are a human visitor and to prevent automated spam submissions.
Copy the characters (respecting upper/lower case) from the image.