Fri, Jul 25, 2008

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DIALOGUE
War-Winning, Disease-Curing, And Life-Improving
The Jews have made America a better place

From: John Derbyshire
To: Joey Kurtzman
Subject: I wish a Jew had written these books

You bet. Though since I broke the bank previously, and am thereby presumably the cause of our moderator bringing down the guillotine, I’ll keep it short.

On empathy for immigrants: yours is not a sufficient explanation. Why haven’t the Irish, or the Italians, been as prominent in fighting immigration restriction as the Jews? MacDonald argues (with bags of documentation) that opposition to the early-20th-century restrictionist movement, which eventually led to the 1924 Immigration Act and quota, was almost entirely Jewish. You might argue that Jews are better at organizing and agitating in causes like this, but then you are just walking into MacDonald’s trap.

You also owe me an explanation of why current immigration-restrictionists are not Daughters of the American Revolution, or hillbilly descendants of 18th-century Scotch-Irish settlers, but people like Mark Krikorian (third-generation Armenian American), Peter Brimelow (immigrant from Britain), Michelle Malkin (daughter of immigrants from Philippines), and so on.

On MacDonald’s picking on the Jews: Well, his excuse is that the Jews provide an exceptionally data-rich set for the kind of study he wanted to undertake. That ought to be convincing. If I decided to embark on an inquiry into human groups’ ability to execute “group evolutionary strategies” across centuries, the Jews would be ideal. Of course, we are not convinced, for the reasons I have mentioned: MacDonald’s disinclination to say anything at all nice about the Jews, as well as his rather (it seems to me) unscholarly language in speaking about “manipulation” of Gentile culture by Jewish intellectuals, and so on.

I find myself wishing very much that someone Jewish had done the kind of study MacDonald did. I agree with you that it was worth doing; I agree that the results are often interesting and often true; I just wish it hadn’t been this guy who wrote Culture of Critique.

On the deracination of young Jews: Slezkine, in his book The Jewish Century (which I wish we had more space to discuss) gives his opinion that following the last influx of Jews (i.e. from the USSR in the years around 1980), the Jews of the U.S.A. are settling down as just another American ethnicity, with an increasingly feeble group identification and high rates of exogamy. (He gives the rate of out-marriage as 3 percent in 1940, 50 percent in 1990.)

Slezkine also makes much of the fact that we goyim are all becoming Jews: “learning how to cultivate people and symbols, not fields or herds… pursuing wealth for the sake of learning, learning for the sake of wealth, and both wealth and learning for their own sake…replacing inherited privilege with acquired prestige, and dismantling social estates for the benefits of individuals, nuclear families, and book-reading tribes (nations).” He quotes Levenson: “A Jewish style of life may be more endangered when everyone eats bagels than when Jews eat hot cross buns.”

All this sounds right to me; so while MacDonald has, I believe, uncovered some interesting truths about twentieth century American culture, I am not sure he has anything to tell us about the future.

Did MacDonald demonstrate that the group evolutionary strategy of the Jews had negative consequences for American intellectual culture? In Culture of Critique I believe he did. One of the most corrosive influences on 20th-century American life has been the collapse of group confidence among white Gentiles.

“These [Jewish-inspired and -led] movements have called into question the fundamental moral, political, and economic foundations of Western society,” says MacDonald in Critique. I think that’s putting it a bit too strongly; but yes, the Frankfurt School, the New York Intellectuals, the Boasian anthropologists, did manage to convince white-Gentile America that there was something deeply wrong with it. That is not to mention the number of lives that must have been wrecked by Freudian superstition, and the unpleasant future consequences that will flow (I believe) from decades of well-nigh unrestrained Third World immigration.

I do think we’d have been better off without all that. You have to put something in the other side of the balance, though: the wonderful vitality of American popular culture, which had a huge Jewish component, the war-winning, disease-curing, and life-improving developments in the theoretical sciences that had so many Jews among their originators. History is all swings and roundabouts. Net-net, would the U.S.A. have been worse off, or better off, without the Great Wave Jewish immigrants? It seems indisputable to me that we would have been worse off. MacDonald would disagree.

Finally, I endorse your call to Jews, and anyone else with an inquiring mind, to give MacDonald a try. I don’t think he is going to go down in history as one of the giants of social science, but he does have some interesting things to say, and he doesn’t give a fig about PC—always refreshing, in this rather stifled day and age. Still, I wish these books had been written by someone else.

JD


John Derbyshire is a columnist for National Review. His most recent book is Unknown Quantity, a history of algebra, published by Joseph Henry Press in May 2006.


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Anonymous


Funny Stuff

"One of the most corrosive influences on 20th-century American life has been the collapse of group confidence among white Gentiles."

This may the funniest line ever heard 'round the halls of the Fortune 500. Is JD a real person?





Anonymous


Let me get this straight

Another judge of our collective worth, say, a union member in analysis who is also a fan of Carlos Castenada might end up concluding that Jews are the best thing that happened to America since sliced bread. Too relativistic, perhaps? OK. Wouldn't want to question JD's white gentile assumptions for fear of collapsing his confidence.

JD attributes a lot of power to Jews. They have the power to crush his puny career and the power to convince white gentile American society that it is pathological. How do we pull this off? Talk about superstitions that ruin lives. But, hey, at least we're entertaining and smart.

And please don't call me a Jewess, either of you.






Anonymous


JD is a real person.

And a smart one. And he is perfectly aware that there are rich white gentiles. So whatever he means by "the collapse of group confidence among white Gentiles" must be consistent with some of them being rich. Perhaps it would be worth trying to figure out what he means by the phrase before ridiculing it.

vinteuil





Anonymous


Proliferation of genetic understanding

After reading this entire thread, I have a couple of comments and questions.
1: The current research into genetics has revealed and will continue to reveal that different groups have statistically significant differences in ability in various areas. For those who like to believe in the fairy tale of the blank slate, rest assured that it will become nothing more than an ossified dogma, not a logical or scientific fact. If humans didn't have some innate abilities and predispositions, then the right upbringing could make a chimp a suitable CEO or politician (well, maybe you could train a chimp to be a politician).
2: The genetic information/understanding that is coming out will not go away, much like nuclear proliferation is the logical end to the existence of nuclear weapons, scientific progress in this age can only be suppressed for so long. And it is a fact that various ethnic groups differ in their abilities, most notably in IQ and ability to delay gratification. This information will have social implications that will take longer to grapple with than discover.
3: Regarding the relationship between Jews and white gentiles, there has been mutual suspicion that goes back historically, and for Jews to deny that their disproportionate power and influence would have anything to do with it is simply denying facts. MacDonald makes a good case about how Jews have used their influence to undermine Western Civilization. However, as Derbyshire points out, they have made disproportionate contributions in many areas, scientific being the most notable. I am part jewish, but primarily gentile and nonreligious (from Christian background)and I have long studied white supremecist movements and the reactions to them. It is growing. The main impetus behind it is the corrosion of the culture and a siege mentality on the part of the racists that they are losing their way of life and that the white race will be demographically swallowed up and extinguished. Central to any long time gentile racist's worldview is anti-Semitism and a fear of jewish power. I believe that in time, the zionist and white supremecist worldviews will eventually be reconciled by the fact that the jewish people represent no existential genetic threat by themselves to the white race. It is only through their promotion of other ethnic minorities, particularly via immigration, that they pose any threat at all. Conversely, the more zionist jews will come to see that the white race is their only natural ally in an increasingly hostile world, the islamic horde being the chief threat to their continued existence. Jews have a right to keep Israel jewish, and to maintain the cohesive identities in the diaspora cohesive. White people have that same right in their own countries, and for similar reasons. What MacDonald misses is that the essential jewish stategy is to do whats good for them, using their own unique talents to offset their numerical weakness, against an historical reality of always being a minority wherever they have been. The tactics of that strategy can change, from one that is in conflict with white gentile interests to one in which both share interests and goals. Using history as a guide, I believe that in the future, white gentile interests and jewish interests will converge in the future. The first steps won't be taken until it becomes okay in western society for white people to openly say that they do have group interests, and pursue them, just like every other people, Jews in particular.





Anonymous


Antisemitic Immigrants

Muslims and Mexicans are considerably more anti-semitic than white Christians. It is curious that Jews tend to support more open borders. Dr. Gottfried and Marcus Epstein, both Jews, seem to realise this as do many others.

If Jews can't live in Israel because of the danger, then they're stuck with the West.

---

I'm not Jewish, but I have a Jewish uncle through marriage. Some others married into my family as well. I've not a drop in me, but I'm around a lot of y'all regardless.

Frank B Lee





Avi Marrano


'round the halls of the Fortune 500

Whose leaders just happen to be disproportionately Jewish





Anonymous


Jews Will Eventually Be Expelled From America

Just like they have been in EVERY other country they have ever inhabited, Jews will eventually be expelled from America.

In fact, expulsion of the Jews is a "historical universal" because, like I said, it's happened in EVERY country/territory/region they've ever settled in (with VERY few exceptions).

So, it's only a matter of time before it happens in America too -- the clock is ticking...





Anonymous


Derbyshire: a White Racist Journalist

Can't believe this dreck. I have monitored White Supremacists, and Derbyshire sounds like them, dressed in the words of a journalist. "The collapse of confidence among White Gentiles"? Sounds pretty much like 'we must keep the white race pure & superior', a la The Order, etc.
Racists always blame their "failure" to get ahead, and stay ahead, on minorities.
This "collapse of confidence" is code for minorities improving their lot in this country, even a little bit.
When this happens, some white Gentiles get frantic; they may not be as superior as they have always been led to believe.
There are several former White Supremacists who have repudiated their former racist way of life. As one so aptly put it, he had always blamed every minority for the fact he couldn't get a decent job; He didn't bother to look at the fact that he didn't have a high school diploma, nor any job skills.





Greg


"The collapse of confidence among White Gentiles"

Has the sporting success of African Amercians caused a similar "collapse of confidence among White Gentiles" in the physical rather than intellectual disciplines? Or is it just code for "we're not as good as we thought we were"?

I agree with the previous commenter. This "collapse" implies a group effort by the Jews for the sake of Jews - something I find hard to believe. It's just post factual racist rationalisation.





Anonymous


Collapse of Confidence

The collapse of confidence Derbyshire refers to is the collapse of cultural confidence: the sense that certain specific and principally Anglo-Saxon originated concepts that led to the formation of this country and its cultural identity (individualism and personal agency, liberty, rule of law, meritocracy, etc.) have been undermined by toxic and corrosive cultural currents that emerged during the late 19th and 20th centuries (he lists several of them: Freudianism, Frankfurt School, Boasian anthropology; to which I would add, among many others, multiculturalism, white guilt, postmodernism, "blank slate" equalitarianism). Derbyshire would argue, and I would agree, that a loss of cultural confidence can be and is proving to be a debilitating, potentially fatal, illness for a nation, particularly I would add for a propositional nation such as the US, which cannot survive a loss of its basic sense of what it is and why it is specifically worth preserving.

The "Jewish question", specifically the prominent role that Jews have played in the movements over this period, has bedeviled honest observers who have faced this situation with concern and alarm for the future of the country. That Jews, who tend historically to be as a group intelligent, successful and socially involved, would face a disproportionate share of blame for these trends I consider pretty much par for the historical course. Jews have, for much the same reasons, gotten a disproportionate share of the blame for the excesses of whatever social trends, such as both Communism and rapacious capitalism over the last 160 years, are goring somebody's ox at any particular time. It cuts both ways, of course, which Derbyshire acknowledges a few posts back. Conservative Jews have been celebrated and welcomed for their achievements and contributions to that movement. Ultimately, the trend is that Jews are good to have on your side, and bad to have against you.





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