There are superficial similarities between the two massacres, but the Turks did not go after Muslim Armenians, they did not set up death camps, and they did not target Armenians in all part of the Turkish Empire.

Yes, it was genocide, but let's get real here.

every genocide is unique. you can't categorise genocides in genocides of 1st class or 2nd class. Jews speaks about death camps and armenians about death marchs.

armenians were killed in their ancient homeland and jews in the diaspora. Can you imagine what would it mean,  if a second genocide would permitted against jews in their homeland israel? "a jewish home without jews." sounds like Talats "Armenia without armenians". Heaven forbid!

You want people to get real? Then you should advise them to read the words of Raphael Lemkin, who coined the phrase 'genocide' precisely because of what happened to the Armenians. He, Hitler and many others were well aware of what happened to the Armenians long before the Holocaust. The idea that the Holocaust was a 'unique' event is absurd, so get over it. Armenians went down that road well before and have been much less vocal about it. Most of the survivors suffered in silence for their entire lives. What I'd like to know is why so many Jews still insist on minimizing what happened to the Armenians?  How is it possible?  What's behind that?  Please tell me.

Every historical event is unique, so there's no point arguing over the
exclusivity or otherwise of the Jewish Holocaust. More relevant, and
useful, is to discuss what events might have 'inspired' its
perpetrators, and the Armenian genocide was certainly one of them.

As a commenter above points out, Raphael Lemkin, who coined the word
'genocide' and helped codify the first laws on war crimes, was deeply
affected by the genocide of the Armenians. In 1939 as the Nazi
leadership drew up plans for the extermination of the Jews, Hitler
asked, 'Who now remembers the Armenians?' The Armenians, like the Jews
of eastern Europe, were exterminated. The Ottoman Turks only lacked the
Nazis' technology, and simply drove hundreds of thousands of people
into the desert where they died of starvation.

Thanks to Khatchig for his informative and thoughtful posts. This
thread of Armenian-Jewish discussion is important, especially when Jews
are being asked to write a blank cheque for Turkey because it has
diplomatic relations with Israel.

visit: adamlebor.com

Read to the end, and you'll see that parallels do not end even to this day.   Apparently, Jews and Armenians are a recent invention created for the sole purpose of destroying or at least irritating the Muslim world.

ISLAMIST COLUMNIST: THE JEW IS A CURSE
MEMRI, DC
Milli Gazete
http://www.thememriblog.org/turkey/blog_personal/en/4156.htm
Dec 18 2007

Fahri Guven of the antisemitic Islamist Turkish daily Milli Gazete
quoted in his column the following excerpts from a recently published
book by M. Ertugrul Duzdag and Ali Ulvi Kurucu presenting them as
historical truths that every Muslim must take into account:

"The Jew is a curse. If you enter a war against the Jew you end up
fighting powerful nations behind him. If you try to make peace,
years pass with no result. He lies 70 lies. It is not surprising
that America supports Israel. It is because America is a province of
Israel! Last century it was god-damned Britain that was under [Jew's]
command, this century they made the U.S. their servant...

"Don't forget the Russian revolution. The only non-Jew was Stalin but
his wife was Jewish. Karl Marks was a Jewish psychopath. Behind the
Free Mason's that played a role in every revolution is Jewish power
and intelligence. The Jew wants to rule the world, and step by step,
he is advancing towards his goal of destroying faith, respect, love,
honor, family values in the world.

"The Zionist organization, exaggerated what was done to the Jews at
the time of Hitler; created a genocide balloon; blew into it hard
enough so it could fly. He blew it to ten, fifty, hundred times more
than what it really was. Then they [Jews] made this the subject of
thousands of novels, plays and films.

"Who would have believed a hundred years ago? But here it is now;
a Jewish state in the midst of Muslims like an abscess."

"Look at Armenia. This too will become tomorrow's Israel. It was built
by Christians to severe the ties between Turkey and the Muslim Turkish
world and it will grow. It will be the roadblock between Turkey and
Azarbaycan and the rest of the Turkic world."

Khatchig's informative post piqued my curiosity so much so that I started reading and researching the subject a bit further myself... I was most fascinated by Franz Werfel's prophetic writings about the "consequences of Nazi antisemitism" and Hitler's obvious despise for the book.

The following is an excerpt worth sharing with others:

Musa Dagh often has been compared with the resistances in the Jewish ghettos during the Second
World War, one of those, the ghetto of Bialystok found itself in the same situation
when in February 1943, Mordecai Tannenbaum, an “inmate” of the Vilna Ghetto was sent with others to
organize Bialystok's resistance. The record of one of the meetings organizing the revolt, suggests that the novel was often used
in the Ghettos as a reference to successful resistance: “Only one thing remains for us: to organize collective resistance in the
ghetto, at any cost; to consider the ghetto our Musa Dagh , to write a proud chapter of Jewish Bialystok and our movement into
history” noted Tannenbaum.[4] Copies of the book were said
to have been "passed from hand to hand" among the ghetto's defenders who likened their situation to that of the
Armenians'.[5]

In addition to Bialystok, in 1942, many Jews in the Palestinian Mandate
contemplated retreating to Mount Carmel and organizing a defense line due to the prospects
of a possible Nazi of invasion of the region. Known alternatively as the "Northern
Program", "The Carmel Plan", "The Massada Plan" or the "Musa Dagh Plan" , it was envisioned to serve as a bastion against Nazi
incursions and to hold out against for at least three to four months. Meri Batz, one of the leaders of the Jewish militias who
had also read the novel, stated that the community wished to "turn Carmel into the Musa Dagh of Palestinian Jewry....We put our
faith in the power of the Jewish 'Musa Dagh' and were determined to out for at least three to four months."[6]

Werfel's contribution of the novel has made him a revered hero among Armenians according to Werfel's biographer, Stephan
Jungk. Citing Father Bezdikian, an Armenian priest living in Venice, Italy whose grandfather served and fought during the siege:

Werfel also wrote prophetically about the consequences of Nazi anti-Semitism;

The Forty Days of Musa Dagh was labeled as an "undesirable" by Adolf Hitler's government and, although not outright banned, the book was sold and purchased secretly.
Werfel was expelled from the Prussian Academy of Arts in 1933. In the Nazi-era German
newspaper Das Schwarze Korps, the publication painted Werfel as an agent who created the "alleged Turkish horrors
perpetrated against the Armenians" and also denounced "America's Armenian Jews for promoting in the U.S.A. the sale of Werfel's
book."[8] Nevertheless, the book became a bestselling novel
worldwide in 1935 (it was one of John F. Kennedy's most
favorite novels.[9]) and was Time Magazine's December 1934 choice for its Book-of-the-Month Club.[10] It was largely met with critical praise; the New York Times Book Review describing it as "A story which must rouse the emotions of all
human beings....Werfel has made it a noble novel. Unlike most other important novels, Musa Dagh is richest in story, a
story of men accepting the fate of heroes....It gives us the lasting sense of participation in a stirring episode of history.
Magnificent."

The book was also widely praised by Jews who believed that the novel, though speaking about the Armenians, contained many
allusions to Judaism and Israel in connection to Werfel's own beliefs. Werfel's famous line in Forty Days
which reads "To
be an Armenian is an impossibility" is also echoed out as a similar
circumstance Jews faced during the era and had a profound and
positive impact upon many of them.[11]

Thank you, Alamity, for sharing this with us.

Excellent and informative post. 

THE ENEMY OF MY FRIEND IS MY ENEMY? THE JEWISH DIASPORA AND GENOCIDE DENIAL
Noah's Ark

Die Judische
http://www.juedische.at/TCgi/_v2/TCgi.cgi?target=home&Param_Kat=16&Param_RB=&Param_Red=9034
Dec 20 2007
Austria

With all due respect to the numerous Jewish-born humanists, historians,
writers, individual personalities, Chief Rabbi, Yona Metzger and many
other that have had the courage to take a stand for the recognition
of the Armenian Genocide and justice for this crime, it is none the
less obvious that the official representatives of Judaism and above
all Jewish/Israeli politicians still have a lot to catch up on.

Even though the internationally recognized and respected Jewish jurist
and human rights activist Rafael Lemkin already concerned himself
with and recognized the systematic destruction of the Armenians as a
"murder of race" at the start of the 1930s, the fact remains that
justice for the Armenian Genocide is still being aggressively denied
by influential organizations of the Jewish Diaspora as well as by
the State of Israel itself.

Genocide - extermination of a race - is a political crime. Genocides
are not committed by private individuals, but by the state itself.

The reference to historians and historical science in regard to the
Armenian Genocide is a tactical and spurious argument to relieve the
world governments from the responsibility to act while simultaneously
giving the perpetrators carte blanche. The proper reaction to political
crimes is therefore only possible through political response - from
the parliamentary houses, the politicians and the governments.

Now more than ever the denial of genocide must be responded to,
for denial is intrinsic to the methodology of genocide. Genocide is
denied even as it is practiced.

>From the beginning, the perpetrator seeks pretexts and justifications
to conceal the real intentions. Thus, the extermination is referred
to as "transporting," as "deportation" or "resettlement" - "moving
to secure places" or even as the "final solution." A verbal code
is used to camouflage and thus deny the annihilation, even as it is
being committed.

Genocide without simultaneous denial is unthinkable - yes, even
impossible. The first thing that must be done is to consider what the
perpetrators want to attain through denial. Denial is not just the
simple negation of an act; it is much more the consequent continuation
of the very act itself. Genocide should not only physically destroy a
community; it should likewise dictate the prerogative of interpretation
in regard to history, culture, territory and memory. As the victims-
Armenians - "never exists".

The Turkish have not only murdered humans , destroyed an ancient
culture/civilization and rewritten history, but they continue to
legitimize the act as well as the racist ideology that led to the
act. This includes the legitimization of any and all stereotyping
of the Armenian people as a dangerous enemy, as a deadly bogeyman in
the closet.

Denial is the final step in the completion of a mass extermination -
and the first step towards the next genocide. If genocide is committed
in Ruanda or Sudan, it is done with the knowledge that the rest of
the world will only watch and then forget.

They look to Turkey and think themselves safe in the assumption that
their actions will likewise remain unpunished! Whether in Sudan or
Ruanda or any other potential hotspot of mass murder the accountable
powers-that-be rhetorically ask - as Hitler supposedly did just before
invading Poland - "Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation
of the Armenians?"

The Republic of Turkey has denied the Armenian Genocide for the
past 84 years, and politicians in Israel and a vast majority of
officials of Jewish Diaspora are aboard their boat now. In the USA,
for example, the Jewish Anti-Defamation League (ADL) not only denied
the Armenian Genocide in the past but also actively fought against
the Congressional Resolution for the Recognition of the Armenian
Genocide. At the end of August 2007, the ADL finally recognized the
Armenian Genocide through gritted teeth. The acknowledgment given,
however, was qualified to such an extent that one could have done
without it. A similar statement of recognition was also simultaneously
supplied by the American Jewish Committee.

Presently, the AIPAC totally denies to have ever fought against the
official recognition of the Armenian Genocide by the US government
and now presents itself as being neutral in regard to the subject.

(And apparently "neutral" is just what they are.)

Pierre Besnainou, the acting president of the European Jewish Congress
(EJC) until early 2007, stated in 2006 that the Armenian people should
stop making fools of themselves: there has been only one genocide
in modern times and as everyone knows it was that of the Jews - an
Armenian Genocide never happened. (We have yet to see what the attitude
of Moshe Kantor, the current president of the EJC, is in this regard.)

In 2001, while he was the Israeli Foreign Minister, Nobel Prize
winner and current President of Israel Shimon Peres described the
Armenians as "meaningless" ("Armenian allegations") Moreover, this
year President Shimon Peres and the current Israeli Foreign Minister
Tzipi Livni did a heroic act that in no way pales to the statements
regarding the Holocaust expressed by the President Ahmadinejad: Peres
affirmed Israel's attitude to the "Armenian Question" and promised
the Turkish Prime Minster Erdogan to lobby against the Armenians,
while Minster Livni prevented the Knesset from officially recognizing
the Armenian Genocide.

The statement given: "Genocide never happened. There was a "tragedy"
with victims on both sides. Please reconcile yourselves now and start
a dialog." Once again, a replay of the Turkish argument of shameless
denial by a Israeli official: "There were mutual killings and No
mass Killings."

Just recently Israeli President Shimon Peres let himself be vocally
celebrated by hundreds of Genocide deniers in the Turkish Parliament,
including numerous Turkish fascists, racists, ultra-nationalists
and fundamentalists In Ankara, President Shimon Peres reiterated
his support for the denial of the Armenian Genocide and conveyed his
full acceptance of the Turkish politics of lies and denial. But it
cannot escape the notice of an experienced politician like President
Shimon Peres that the Genocide deniers in Ankara are no longer simply
satisfied with the repudiation of the Armenian Genocide.

Turkish Prime Minster Erdogan and the other Turkish nationalists
have long since joined forces to create panturanic - "Pan Turkish"-
institutions with the specific aim of try(ing) to prove the
'illegality' of the existence of the Armenian people to the world.

When the French Ambassador to Great Britain, Daniel Bernard, referred
to Israel as "this shitty little country" in 2001, there was a storm
of protest and he was quickly labeled an Anti-Semite. But what should
an Armenian call someone that denies the Armenian Genocide and refers
to Armenians as "meaningless"? If that were even just all that is
being done: Above and beyond this, Turkey has demanded that Israel
instruct the "Jewish Lobby" to agitate against the Armenians. Of
course the reference to the "Jewish Lobby" is an allusion to the
Jewish Diaspora and - as is the case when talking of Diasporas -
carries a whiff of world conspiracy and global domination.

Thus, the "Jewish Conspiracy" should follow Ankara's tune and
eliminate, obliterate, purge (whatever you choose to call it) the
"Armenian Conspiracy." Under normal circumstances the concept would
be laughable, but laughter is not advisable as it could result in
asphyxiation.

Why Do Jewish Organizations and their Functionaries Deny the Armenian
Genocide as Turkey Does Deny recognition and Justice for this Crime?

How can this act of denial be harmonious with the Jewish moral concepts
and identity in light of the xenophobia, racism, Anti-Semitism,
hostility and intolerance that the sorely tested Jewish People are
themselves confronted with on a daily basis?

Genocide is racism: it is the most paramount and aggressive form
of racial discrimination, and is aimed at the obliteration of the
existence and life of a people only because they belong to a specific
community or collective - a community that is defined by the aggressors
as "the others," as "the alien."

Two reasons are commonly given for the "placating" activities of the
international Jewish community in regard to Turkey's denial policies:
Israel needs Turkey, and the Holocaust is unique. On occasion a third
reason is also offered: to do otherwise would result in repercussions
against the Jewish community in Istanbul. (Although if this were true,
the US Congress and Senate could never pass any resolutions against
Iran: as is well known, numerous Jewish people also live in Tehran,
Yazd, and Isfahan for centuries!) Statements such as those are, in the
end, nothing but hollow attempts to justify denial- The attitude of
Jewish Organizations and their functionaries in regard to the Armenian
Genocide not only results in their involvement in the guilt of the
perpetrators but also produces a culpability of their own as well.

An attitude such as theirs supports and perpetuates the bogeyman
image of the Armenians that has long been cherished by the Turkish
while simultaneously strengthening the Turkish nationalistic
self-image. Above and beyond this, when Jewish functionaries describe
the Ottoman Turkey as a paradise of earth, they both distort history
and negate the inhumanities experienced by the Armenian People;
instead, an unmerited image of a heroic and pro-Judaic Turkey is
propagated throughout Jewish communities and private homes.

Thus, in turn, within the sphere of the Jewish Diaspora and even Israel
itself, a new generation grows that is spoon-fed the misconceptions
of the valiant Turk and perfidious Armenian. In regard to this
current situation, is oddly ironic that the modern usage of the word
"Holocaust" - used so often by international communities to describe
the Shoah - was first introduced to describe the Turkish bloodbath
suffered by the Armenians in Adana in 1909. (Ferriman, Z.D.: The Young
Turks and the Truth about the Holocaust at Adana in Asia Minor during
April 1909; London, 1913.)

The Enemy of My Friend is also My Enemy Is the demonization of the
Armenian Community within the Jewish Diaspora done with this concept
in mind? Some examples among others: In July 2007 an article was
published in the "Judische Zeitung" ("Jewish Newspaper") in Germany
which totally supported and serviced the policies of genocide denial
and victim-perpetrator-reversal as practiced alla Turca.

The "Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs" published in November this
year in its webpage an article written by Ms. Aydan Kodaloglu, an
advisor to the former Turkish President Turgut Ozal; in her article,
Kodaoglu attempted to make the denial of the Armenian Genocide (even
more) palatable for the Jewish and Israeli population. (Ironically
enough, according to Nuzhet Kandemir, the former Turkish ambassador to
the USA, President Turgut Ozal was himself on the brink of recognizing
the Armenian Genocide.)

In turn, in the Jerusalem Post Joel J. Sprayregen (the former National
Vice-Chair of the ADL and a member of the Executive Committee of
the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA)) took the
Armenian resistance during the Genocide to justify denial alla Turca -
"There was no genocide" - he was referring to history fakers - despite
the fact that he must be fully aware that one could easily reinterpret
reality and deny the Jewish Holocaust through the misrepresentation
of the Warsaw Uprising, the Theresienstadt- deportation camp, the
"sale" and departure of the Jews to Switzerland during the Holocaust
and survival of millions of Jews people ...

And in the US, one could easily come to assume that Washington Times -
which often reads as a copy of the Turkish press - aims at leading
a war against the Armenian Genocide Resolution (HR 106) in the US
Congress.

Holocaust-denier, David Irving, is serving more and more as example as
a paradigm for the denial of Armenian Genocide. Mr. Lenny Ben-David,
former undersecretary at the Israeli Embassy in the US and A adviser
for five years to the Turkish embassy in Washington, until earlier this
summer, In his article published in the Oct. 5 issue of the Jerusalem
Post, titled "Turkey and Armenia: What Jews should do," Not only
denied the Armenian Genocide and creates hysteria and Armenophobe but
in his article he gives a lot of credit to the fabrication of Turkish
and Azeri nationalists and fascists. This is again not a hidden fact
even for this politician that the aim of Turkish fabrications against
Armenians in the next step includes: suggesting removing Armenia from
the maps, as a people and country which doesn't exist...

If you assume A Armenian student from Jerusalem will be allow in
an official ceremony in Israel to refer to the Armenian Genocide,
you are mistaken. This shouldn't come to you as a surprise either;
in Istanbul the remaining Armenian children from "Western Armenia"
(After Gencode renamed to "Eastern Anatolia") are forced to write
essays how their ancestors committed "genocide against Turks" (This
is just distressful, nauseating, sadistic and perverse.)

Denial is known as a second killing (a "bloodless-killing"). There
is an aggressive denial of Armenian Genocide on going by Turkey.

Unfortunately, a big part of officials of Jewish Diaspora and Israel
are involved in the denial of Armenian Genocide and this act - their
involvement in denial - doesn't differ much from the involvement of
German military officer in Armenian Genocide in 1915 (This reference
should make clearer - to help to reach a better understanding- what
really the denial of Armenian Genocide by Jewish politicians means
for Armenian people and other Christian people who were subject of
genocide by Turkish!)

If politically allies do it, it's not genocide but "Tragedy". There
are Turkish "palace historians" that aim to erase all references to
"Armenia" and "Armenian people" in the libraries of the world. This is
a fact that is easily documented. Professor Dr. Yusuf Halacoðlu, the
racially motivated President of the Turkish Historical Society with
the assistance of Turkish fascists, extends great effort on proving
the non-existence of the Armenian People and, in turn, the state of
"Armenia." The statements of many Jewish Diaspora officials that
"there was no Armenian Genocide" play directly into the hands of the
official policy Turkey and the Turkish Nationalists and fascists.

A nation that has been the victim of genocide should not be forced to
prove the fact of genocide. For a nation to support the perpetrators
of genocide by placating the world with official statements supporting
the Turkish government's shameless policies of denial is disgraceful
and appalling; for a nation that itself has likewise suffered an
attempted obliteration to do so is incomprehensible. The "placating"
efforts by Jewish officials and functionaries are doomed to backfire:
the denial of the Armenian Genocide in no way helps to make Israel
stronger or to increase the security of the Jewish People.

Turkey and Turkish nationalists have always used other people for the
implementation of their inhuman policies against "non-Turks" in order
to achieve their own final goals, if not their own "final solution"

Words such as dialogue, reconciliation, and rapprochement are terms
that awaken fundamentally positive associations, but they are being
used without any reflection upon or reference to historical fact
or fairness, let alone justice. It is beyond understanding that
the newspapers of the Jewish Diaspora present the Armenians as the
"irreconcilable" or "troublemaker", as the "true" disruptor in
international relations, when it is the Turkish that continually
attempt to illegalize or negate the discussion. (What dialogue would
the Jewish Nation have with Germany had Germany demanded and been
permitted to forbid the acknowledgment of the holocaust and justice?)

Is the Jewish community the "troublemaker" when the Iranian President
Ahmadinejad denies the Shoah? A crime that happened 60 years ago and
that he himself did not participate in?

The statement that the genocide happened 90 years ago or the
insinuation that the Armenian Diaspora - the "Armenian Conspiracy" -
are endangering world peace because they are motivated by self-swerving
interests serve again nothing else than to protect the perpetrator. But
is it not the purpose and duty of international criminal law to protect
the victim? Should criminal law protect the rapist or killer because
the victim supposedly "asked for it"? Is international law only a
"law for the stronger" and thus only there to protect the state and
not the individual?

Are terms such as "crimes against humanity," "genocide," "war crimes"
and "war of aggression" only there to protect the aggressors and not
the victims?

The Armenian Diaspora - the masses of people forced to disperse
throughout the world - is a result of the genocide executed by the
Turkish; the Diaspora Armenians are not pursuing an arbitrary and
unfounded interest, they have a justified demand for justice and
recognition. At the same time, this demand is also a concern of the
international community of states which created and approved the
legislation known as "public international law" or "international
criminal law."

It is not just a matter of morality to condemn genocide, it is a
premise for peaceful coexistence. It is a cornerstone of international
peace, and the looming threat of this very crime is a principal reason
behind military intervention and self-defense.

A question that might arise when reading this text is why do I only
write about the Jewish Community and Israeli politicians? Well,
this is due to the following fact: aside from the Turkish themselves,
Israeli politicians and the Jewish Diaspora are the only ones that go
beyond the "simple" denial of the Armenian Genocide (and denial of
Turkish genocides against other Christian people, e.g. The Assyrian
Genocide) to both aggressively practice a virulent policy of denial
and likewise try to inspire others to do the same.

For example, the unprecedented dedication with which Shimon Peres
supported the "fight" against the Armenian Resolution in the US
Congress while Bill Clinton was still president.

The relationship between the Jewish People and the Turkish is based on
lies and the denial of the Armenian Genocide - the denial of the 1.5
million Armenians that died by the hands of the Ottoman Turkey from
1915-1923. It is a relationship that is based on criminal complicity
in hushing up a horrific transgression against humanity and that
totally disregards all concepts of moral and justice.

Namik Tan, the Turkish Ambassador to Israel, described this
relationship in September 2007: "The Turkish People make no
differentiation between Israel and the Jews of the world. To us,
you are all one. We have no pact with Israel, but rather with the
whole Jewish world. If the Jewish lobby disappears, Israel loses its
importance to us. Therefore, Israel takes the responsibility when a
Jewish organization speaks of Genocide."

The truth will set Turkish and Jewish officials free. Implementation of
international agreed reforms for "Western Armenia/ Turkish Armenian"
and eliminating - "getting rid" - of a nation/people by Turkey are
not the same. Only the fact of genocide can keep alive disinformation
policy, the genocide denial industry and the nationally authorized
and aggressive Turkish politics of denial.

Israeli/Jewish officials should advice their "friends/allies" in
Ankara to stop making fools of themselves. Armenian Genocide was
proved as Armenian Genocide was happening.

The whole world was witness of this genocide. Besides this:
Armenian Genocide is well documented above all by Turkish war time
ally Germany (even though a part of this documents being destroyed
in1919 and 1940s.)  According to Taner Akcam, a nonconformist Turkish
historian, "The denial of the Armenian Genocide is the basis of
Turkey's existence."

At the latest, Namik Tan's statements above and the aggressive denial
of Armenian Genocide by President Shimon Peres also reveal and proves
that the relationship between Israel and Turkey is also based the
denial of the Armenian Genocide (raison d'Etat instead of right to
truth and justice.)

One cannot help but wonder how long a relationship built on boundless
dishonesty, immorality, denial and lies is capable or destined to
last... Indeed, it is truly incomprehensible that the Jewish Diaspora
denies the Armenian Genocide for the "good" of Israel. What lasting
"good" has ever come from the denial of genocide, from the denial of
truth, from the denial of the justice?

Author's Note: I am aware of the fact that my analyze of Jewish
Denial of Armenian Genocide may upset some so please feel free to
write comments on it . And, in the meantime, the author likes to let
you know: who ever denies one genocide he/she denies all genocides.

Jewish denial of Armenian Genocide kills not only the Armenian Genocide
but in the end this denial kills The Jewish Holocaust too...

Great excerpt, Alamity, thank you, I added it as an update to Khatchig's article.

Joey, Jewcy has been such an inspiration to me that the pleasure is all mine for being able to occasionally share some of my thoughts with percipient members of the Jewcy community.I am so thrilled that I found this site --albeit, in a pure fortuitous way-- for the caliber/quality of Jewcy is head and shoulders above the rest.

Well, 'Noah's Ark' says: The truth will set Turkish and Jewish officials free. The question is, at this point, do we actually know or want to know, the hard truths and facts about the Armenian genocide? Have they all been revealed?  Perhaps there is another truth? I suggest that there's a massive elephant in this room that no one wants to discuss, and that concerns the masterminds of the genocide who, by most accounts, were not really ethnically Turkish at all, and only marginally Muslim. Turks know very well who planned this heinous act against a valued group of people who had lived in Anatolia for thousands of years before Turks ever arrived, and who were the true, indigenous heirs to Anatolia's history....they know the genocide planners were the CUP group from Salonika and that the true heirs to Anatolia who also helped them build their empire, were the Armenians. Can this be discussed? Is it time to lift the curtain and reveal the identity of the maniacs who pulled the strings and levers to concoct this scheme?  Can the blame go squarely on the perpetrators? Perhaps the genocide was not the result of ethnic or religious 'hatred' as some people portray it. More accurately, it may have been a purely economic act, an act of theft, cloaked in a disguise that has fooled the world for years. Can we ask, Who benefited from the disappearance of the Armenians? Who inherited their land, their businesses and their ancient legacy in Turkey? Who still denies them to this day?  Dr. Robert Melson and Taner Akcam touch on this in their writings, but it may be time for this historic thread to be explored a bit further.

The exterminating acts perpetrated by the Young Turkish government aginst Armenians were in no way limited to the territory of Ottoman Turkey alone, but rather extended all the way to the northwest of Iran (which was briefly occupied by the Ottoman Turks) and only found their provisional end in the Caucasus.

Young Turkish government  lost the war  /power else no Armenians would had servived this genocide !!

Anonymous:

Please detial your thoughts and what you want to explore further in clearer wording.  As far as I can tell - the underlying reasons why the genocide occurred is due to a mixture of racism, greed, religious presecution, and possibly fear due to ignorance. 

I have an Iranian friend whose family is from Yazd.  He told me that the stories they told in Iran of Ataturk was that he planted a field of Armenians head first into the ground.

So you are pathetic if you insinuating that the Jews are responsible for this crime - even though Ataturk was Jewish.   The Ottoman Turks were responsile for this crime against humanity just as the past and current Turkish government (and Isreali and American governments) are responsible for its denial of this crime against humanity. 

Question for the JEWCY readers: "Is the denial of genocide a crime against humanity?"

the following is from wikipedia - Salonika.

During the Ottoman period, the city's Muslim and Jewish population grew. By 1478, Thessaloniki had a population of 4,320 Muslims and 6,094 Greek Orthodox, as well as some Catholics, but no Jews. By ca. 1500, the numbers had grown to 7,986 Greeks and 8,575 Muslims, briefly making the latter the majority. Around the same time, Jews began arriving from Spain, fleeing persecution. In ca. 1500, there were only 3,770 Jews, but by 1519, there were 15,715, 54% of the city's population. The invitation of the Sephardic Jews expelled from Spain by Ferdinand and Isabella, was an Ottoman demographic strategy aiming to prevent the Greek element from dominating the city.[5] The Sephardic Jews, Muslims and Greek Orthodox remained the principal groups in the city for the next 4 centuries.[5]

The city remained the largest Jewish city in the world for at least two centuries, often called "Mother of Israel". Of its 130,000 inhabitants at the start of the 20th century, around 60,000 were Sephardic Jews.[6] Some Romaniote Jews were also present.[7]

Thessaloníki, called Selânik in Turkish, became one of the most important cities in the Empire, viable as the foremost trade and commercial center in the Balkans. The railway reached the city in 1888 and new modern port facilities were built in 1896-1904. The founder of modern Turkey, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, was born here in 1881, and the Young Turk movement was headquartered here in the early twentieth century.

 

 

maybe the thought is that the planners and architects of the armenian genocide, while ottoman, were not in fact turkish. they were ottoman and 'muslim', at least on the outside, but not at all truly, ethnically turkish....and they definitely were not jewish or of the jewish community, though what they were behind closed doors is another question. they were dunmeh and this is not a fact that is in question. it is an important distinction, because the entire ottoman society was divided by religion and ethnicity. armenians were fully 25% of anatolia....they paid their taxes, contributed to their society on many levels, were viewed by sultan after sultan as the loyal 'nation' (millet), and as such, were very valuable to the life of the empire. how would eliminating them benefit or help turkey?  why would turks do this and cripple their nation? it makes no sense, unless the goal was to profit from their elimination. under the guise of war, revolution and chaos, the CUP cooked up a scheme to scapegoat the armenians for all of turkey's ills, foment hatred and nationalist furvor, and mobilize a secret army to eliminate them. ultimately, their supporters would profit from their criminal deeds. unsavory as it may be, armenians and others may have been misled for years and may need to rethink this entire sad episode. the 'turks' and turkish nation have been made to accept the blame for a crime committed in their name by a very sinister group of characters. ata turk may not have been involved, and he even termed the genocide 'a shameful act' (per akcam), but he also handsomely rewarded those who belonged to the CUP in the post-genocide years and refused to prosecute them, which is equal to protecting them. would you care to explain this?  

In "Detailed Thoughts," above, the anonymous author asks:

"why would turks do this (kill off such a valued segment of their
population, the Armenians, who enabled the economic wheels of their
nation to turn) and cripple their nation? it makes no sense..."

And this goes to the heart of the genocide debate. It certainly makes
no sense. Despite all the many theories advanced by genocide
enthusiasts such as Muslims hating Christians (the Ottomans were known
for their tolerance) and pan-Turkism (then other minorities would have
also been eliminated).

Despite what those as Vahakn Dadrian and Taner Akcam tell us (by
pointing to the corrupt courts of 1919-20 that even the British
rejected for their own Malta Tribunal), there is no evidence for
"genocide." All we have is hearsay, and some forgeries.

The reason why people blindly accept the genocide conclusion regarding
Armenians is because we are inundated by Armenian propaganda, people
accept it blindly without objective analysis (since being against
genocide is the "moral" thing to do), and people are simply prejudiced
against Turks.

The one and only reason why the Ottomans resettled their Armenian
community was because the Armenians traitorously joined their nation's
enemies. Tens of thousands deserted from the Ottoman army with their
weapons, many thousands refused to be conscripted in the first place,
and whether they crossed the border to join the Russians or stayed
behind to harass the Ottoman armies guerilla-style, all with the help
of the Armenian community who by this time had their hearts with the
Ottomans' enemies, the effect was disastrous upon the "Sick Man,"
already fighting three of the world's most powerful nations on multiple
fronts, nations that were bent on taking the Ottomans' lands for
themselves. In the midst of this dangerous environment, the Ottomans
nation did what any nation would have done.

Resettlement is not genocide.

Armenian leaders, such as Boghos Nubar, are on record for admitting the Armenians' "belligerence de facto," as Nubar put it in Jan. 1919, "for indignantly refusing to side with Turkey." Even a terrorist as Armen Garo, in his "Why Armenia Should Be Free: Armenia's Role in the Present War" book from 1918, told us in no uncertain terms: "...the Armenians... from the very beginning, unreservedly bound themselves to the allied cause."

"...If the Armenians had sided with the Germano-Turks in the Near East
from the beginning of the war... those frightful Armenian massacres
would not have taken place."

What Garo wrote should answer the author of "Detailed Thoughts." Garo
is telling us that if the Armenians of the Ottoman Empire had remained
loyal, there would have been no resettlement of the Armenians, which is
what Armenians and their blind followers unethically refer to as
"genocide."

It is a fact that most Armenians who died lost their lives from famine
and disease. Of the up to 600,000 who really died, Richard Hovannisian
has written that some 150,000, fully one-quarter, died of famine while
accompanying the retreats of their allies, the Russians. This means no
Turks were around to "massacre" them, and yet, these 150,000 are
recognized as "genocide victims." Similarly, thousands of Armenians
died of the same causes while accompanying the retreat of their French
allies after the war had ended. These are also known as "genocide
victims." It is all so highly dishonest, and highly unethical.

Meanwhile, the almost 3 million other Ottomans who died, the ones Yair
Auron and even Elie Wiesel do not care about, mostly died of famine and
disease as well. More Ottoman soldiers died from these causes than
through combat.

Hundreds of thousands of Ottomans were killed at the hands of
Armenians, who conducted a systematic extermination policy of their
own. The aforementioned Garo (Pasdermadjian), who was an Ottoman
Parliamentarian (there were many Armenians in government, most unusual
for such a "persecuted" people), defected with a huge segment of the
Armenians from the Ottoman army, only to return later to slaughter
innocent Ottoman Muslim and Jewish villagers. (As related by Raphael de
Nogales.)

Why do not Yair Auron and Elie Wiesel care about these Muslim victims?
Weirdly, why do they not even care about these Jewish victims?

It's because these people tackle the genocide topic emotionally, and
care only to consult the propaganda they prefer. They don't care to
investigate objectively. This does not say much about their integrity,
even if one of these men happens to be the beloved Elie Wiesel.

What can we expect from Elie Wiesel if he is basing his conclusions
upon a fictional novel such as "The Forty Days of Musa Dagh"? Is that
supposed to be history?

Franz Werfel used the Ottoman Turks as a vehicle to warn about the
evils of the Third Reich to come. This was awful of Werfel to do, since
Werfel relied on the forgeries of Armenians (the telegrams forged by
Aram Andonian), as his friend, Rabbi Albert Amateau, revealed. (Google
"albert amateau.") Werfel kept quiet after he learned he had been
fooled, to his shame, as he was afraid of the Armenians.

And here Werfel is pointed to as a historical source. It is simply incredible.

Musa Dagh had nothing to do with the Warsaw Ghetto, much as the novel
influenced a chief participant of the uprising in Warsaw (as we are
informed by the article). The Jews of Warsaw were penned up by their
Nazi oppressors, who were planning a most ominous fate for the Jews.
The Jews were entirely innocent.

The Armenians of Musa Dagh, on the other hand, betrayed their nation in
armed rebellion, fully in cohesion with their Ottoman nation's enemies.
Does anyone believe the French warship that finally took away the
thousands of Musa Dagh Armenians appeared out of coincidence? (Did they
really respond to the bedsheet with a cross painted on it, or with the
words, "Christians in need"?) Are the people here all that naive, or
dishonest?

A chief requirement of the 1948 Genocide Convention is that political
groups are not allowed. The Jews and the Gypsies victimized by the
Nazis qualify, since they were completely innocent. They were targeted
only because they belonged to a certain group. As we learned from Armen
Garo, the Armenians were not targeted for who they were. There was no
Ottoman "racial hatred" against Armenians. The Armenians were subjected
to the resettlement program (which went badly, but not out of "intent"
for those who respect good, hard evidence; it went badly because the
bankrupt empire was in a desperate situation and lacked the necessary
resources. Regardless, the majority of Armenians survived, which means
there was no extermination policy; otherwise, how difficult would it
have been to kill off the hundreds of thousands of Armenians in Ottoman
hands?) because, and ONLY because the Armenians allied themselves with
their nation's enemies. This forms a political group, and in itself
cannot constitute a genocide.

Mr. Kurtzman, I noticed your
enthusiastic response to Alamity's Bialystok Ghetto Resistance
contribution. As you are the executive editor of Jewcy, I plead with
you to open your mind and refuse to accept these Armenian genocide
articles with such excitement. It is as though there is the fervor of
old-time religion here, given how gaga all the commentators are on
genocide, without bothering to examine all of the facts. The reality
is, few genocides are black and white, and there is a thin line between
war crimes and genocide. Genocide has become an instrument in the hands
of those who lack morality, as much as they will insist that they
possess the greatest morality. There is very little honesty going on
here, and you must be on guard against it, since your publication has
great power to influence so many.

The Holocaust is proven, the Armenian allegations are not. Think for
yourself and investigate. What you are an accomplice to here is
propagating hatred against Turks, by so readily accepting the parallel
with the Nazis. You should not do this. It is not right. Particularly
since the Turkish nation has historically been, mostly before the 20th
century but including WWII (when the Turks saved 100,000; compare with
how European Armenians treated the Jews, under the banner of the
Swastika), arguably the greatest defenders of Judaism. That does not
mean you can't accuse Turks of crimes, but you had better make sure the
evidence is in place -- and that will entail a lot more than the
opinions of Yair Auron, Elie Wiesel, and Franz Werfel, all basing their
opinions on the prevalent propaganda.

Your lengthy anti-Armenian discourse, which rambles all over the place with the fabricated lies of those who support blaming the victims, is truly pathetic on many levels and very sad to read. Moreover, for you to use the term 'Armenian allegations' is ridiculous. Do you think there was no one around to witness what the CUP was doing to Turkey's Armenian citizens?  They were so secretive, the sultan himself did not know. The world was watching then and is also watching now, who supported this crime and who supports those who continue lying about it. The reality is that those who organized the elimination of the Armenians were not ethnically Turkish....and you still refuse to acknowledge who or what they were, and instead blame the Armenians for their own demise. As anyone who has studied history knows, the Ottoman rulers became increasingly hostile towards their Armenian subjects as the fortunes of the empire continued to crumble. The Armenians didn't declare war on anyone, their own government did, along with joining the losing side of WWI with the Germans. It was their actions against their very own loyal subjects, both in the 1890's and then in 1915, that forced some Armenians to stand up in their own defense. Can anyone blame them?  As Mouradian suggests, self defense, either in the Warsaw Ghetto or in Van or Musa Dagh, is everyone's right.  For you or anyone else to even suggest that 2.5 million unarmed Ottoman Armenians might have or could have killed 3 million well armed Ottoman soldiers is patently ridiculous. The empire was fighting wars on several fronts, including an internal war against its own citizens. Face the facts: the CUP group from Salonika decided after 400 years to put their plan in place for total domination of the Ottoman empire and its riches, and to do this they concocted a scheme of lies to justify their crimes. It is not unlike what the neocons in the US have done to brainwash the American population that killing more than a million innocent people in Iraq is justified, while depleting the US treasury and enriching themselves.  Every scholarly group and institution on the planet has determined that what the CUP did to the Armenians constitutes genocide, except those in Turkey, because it is against the law there. Yet you continue to stand on the side of those who defend their actions by using the Holocaust as a defense, which is ridiculous. History teaches us that the Armenian genocide organized by the CUP provided the blueprint for the Holocaust, and maybe admitting that shameful fact is what is most painful for Jews and a painful embarrassment for Turks who have been blamed for the actions of a diabolical few Ottomans from Salonika.

 

 

 

 

Your comments are right out of the Turkish propaganda bureau.  Are you employeed by them?

Funny, I have read that the Armenians fully supported the Young Turks rise to power - hoping that it would bring political reforms to them and the country.  This support was probably due to the Hamidian massacers in which tens of thousand Armenians were massacred in Urfa in the 1890's.  It is very improbable that a group of citizens who fully supported the new government support the state's external enemies - especially those far from the Eastern front.

The second thing which you do not comment on (possibly because it does not fit into your "Armenians defection theory") is the rounding up and murder of all of the Armenian political, religious, and community leaders in Constantinople in April of the year 1915.  Why would a government do such an act inless the intent was to leave the community leadershipless during the attack on the remaining population. 

The Hamidian massacres of the 1890's in which upwards of a hundred thousand Armenian, Assyrian, and Chaldeans were butchered for no other reason than being Christian.  There was no war, no anti-government political movement in those cities and villages - nothing which you can twist to and color towards your "conspiracy theory" of Armenians siding with the enemies of the state. 

It is more reasonable that in 1915, Armenians of the interior were very wary of the Turkish Army because of what had happend two decades earlier in Urfa.  So everybody knew if the Turkish Army was coming to your village - it meant massacre to all. 

The few who did decide to defend themselves, Musa Dagh and Van, instead of "relocating to the deserts of Syria" are labeled as "The Armenians of Musa Dagh, on the other hand, betrayed their nation in armed rebellion, fully in cohesion with their Ottoman nation's enemies"

Finally, you do not explain why so many disloyal citizens would so willingly march out of their villages to certain death (and they knew it was certain death).  The only explaination is that they were loyal citizens, average everyday villagers who knew nothing of politics.  They certainly did not have the arms to defend themselves against the Turkish army as you claim otherwise they would have fought for their lives.  Human nature is human nature.  If you know you are going to die because someone is coming to kill you - and you have a gun to defend yourself and your family - then you use it to defend yourself and family - you do not pack up and leave to die on the way to the Syrian desert.

 

 

The Slaughterhouse Province - An American Diplomat's Report on the Armenian Genocide, 1915 - 1917.  Leslie A. Davis: ISBN: 0-89241-458-8

Leslie A. Davis was the American Consul in the city of Harput.  The following are selected quotes from the above diplomat's dispatches to the American Ambassador in Constantinople.

No. 62: June 30, 1915 "Another method was found, however, to destroy the Armenian race.  This is no less than the deportation of te entire Armenian population, not only from this Vilayet, but, I understand, from all six Vilayets comprising Armenia". ... "The full meaning of such an order can scarceley be imagined by those who are not familiar with the peculiar conditions of this isolated region.  A massacre, however horrible the word may sound, would be humane in comparison with it .  In a massacre many escape but a wholsesale deportation of this kind in this country means a lingering and perhaps a more dreadful death for nearly every one.  I do not believe it possible for one in hundred to survive, perhaps not one in thousand". ... "The fate of these people can readily be imagined.  The method is perhaps a little more civilized than a massacre but it will be far more effective and thorough".

July 11, 1915: " Not many men have been spared,.., for a more prompt and sure method has been used to dispose of them. Several thousand Armenian men have been arrested during the past few weeks.  These have been put in prison and each time that several hundred had been gathered up in that way they were sent away during the night. ..., There have been frequent rumors that all these were killed and there is little doubt that they were.  All Armenian soldiers have likewise been sent away in the same manner"  ..., "They were simply arrested and killed as part of the general plan to dispose of the Armenian race"

July 24, 1915: "Any doubt that may have been expressed in previous reports as the the Government's intention in sending away the Armenians have been removed and any hope that they may have been expressed as to the possiblity of some of them surviving has been destroyed.  It has been no secret that the plan was to destroy the Armenian race as a race, but the methods used have been more cold-blooded and barbarous, if not more effective, than I had first supposed". ..., "I do not believe there has ever been a massacre in history of the world so general and thorough as that which is now being perpetrated in this region or more fiendish, diabolical scheme has ever been coneived by the mind of man",..., "Everything was apparently planned months ago.  First a few who were said to have been involved with a revolutionary plot were arrested. Some bombs were found and further arrests were made",...," How many of the bombs may have been planted by the police themselves and how many weapons were obtained by innocent people for the purpose of having something to surrender to the police we shall probably never know",... "Tehn, when practically all the Armenian men had been gotten out of the way and every weapon surrendered or found by the police, it was announced that all Armenians must be deported. Effective resistance to such an order was impossible",..., "The shooting and killing of people a few hours after their departure from here is barbarous and shows the real intention of the Government is not to exile them but to kill them".

the questions still remains, why would the non-turkish leaders and masterminds of the genocide do this, all behind the sultan's back? if they were so loyal and so religious (both are in question), how on earth could they undertake such a horrendous crime - killing an ancient people on their own land. not even the turks could have or would have cooked up such a diabolical scheme...yet the CUP characters did and it is all very well documented...talaat, enver, nazim bey, behaddin sakir...none of them were truly 'turks'...ottoman yet, but not real, true turks. you can say there is no evidence for genocide, but as they say, actions speak louder than words...and their actions, which perfected ethnic cleansing, say it all...they, the non-turks, were evil, racist criminals... who would do anything for money and power.  let's face it folks, not even ataturk was a turk....gotta pity the turks...they've been duped for years. 

 

 Ano (5:20 am),

Funny word choice..."genocide enthusiasts"?  There aren't many who are enthusiastic about genocide.  Although sadly we see that there are still some who are enthusiastic about genocide denial. 

You claim that "genocide enthusaists" claim that pan-Turkism was not a basis for the Armenian Genocide because, after all, "other minorities would have been killed."  I guess you were not aware that there were other non-Muslem minorities living in Anatolia at that time.  Greeks and Assyrians, too, lived within the borders of what had become the Ottoman empire and were subjected to the same unfair laws, taxation and treatment as the Ottoman Armenians.  Sadly, when the Turks began their premeditated scheme to rid their lands of the Armenians, they did not spare the Assyrians or the Greeks. 

 Ten days ago, the International Association of Genocide Scholars officially recognized that the Ottoman Turks committed a GENOCIDE against the Christian populations inhabiting Anatolia between 1914-1923.   Although I generally hate to cut and paste, I have posted the IAGS's press release below and it is worth a read. 

 *Press Release* GENOCIDE SCHOLARS ASSOCIATION OFFICIALLY RECOGNIZES ASSYRIAN, GREEK GENOCIDES Issuing Organization: International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS) Date: December 16, 2007 The International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS) has voted overwhelmingly to recognize the genocides inflicted on Assyrian and Greek populations of the Ottoman Empire between 1914 and 1923. The resolution passed with the support of over eighty percent of IAGS members who voted. The resolution (full text below) declares that "it is the conviction of the International Association of Genocide Scholars that the Ottoman campaign against Christian minorities of the Empire between 1914 and 1923 constituted a genocide against Armenians, Assyrians, and Pontian and Anatolian Greeks." It "calls upon the government of Turkey to acknowledge the genocides against these populations, to issue a formal apology, and to take prompt and meaningful steps toward restitution." "This resolution," stated IAGS President Gregory Stanton. "is one more repudiation by the world's leading genocide scholars of the Turkish government's ninety year denial of the Ottoman Empire's genocides against its Christian populations, including Assyrians, Greeks, and Armenians. The history of these genocides is clear, and there is no more excuse for the current Turkish government, which did not itself commit the crimes, to deny the facts. The current German government has forthrightly ackowledged the facts of the Holocaust. The Turkish government should learn from the German government's exemplary acknowledgment of Germany's past, so that Turkey can move forward to reconciliation with its neighbors." The resolution noted that while activist and scholarly efforts have resulted in widespread acceptance of the Armenian genocide, there has been "little recognition of the qualitatively similar genocides against other Christian minorities of the Ottoman Empire." Assyrians, along with Pontian and Anatolian Greeks, were killed on a scale equivalent in per capita terms to the catastrophe inflicted on the Armenian population of the empire -- and by much the same methods, including mass executions, death marches, and starvation. In 1997, the IAGS officially recognized the Armenian genocide. IAGS member Adam Jones drafted the resolution, and lobbied for it along with fellow member Thea Halo, whose mother Sano survived the Pontian Greek genocide. In an address to the membership at the IAGS conference in Sarajevo, Bosnia, in July 2007, Jones paid tribute to the efforts of "representatives of the Greek and Assyrian communities ... to publicize and call on the present Turkish government to acknowledge the genocides inflicted on their populations." "The overwhelming backing given to this resolution by the world's leading genocide scholars organization will help to raise consciousness about the Assyrian and Greek genocides," Jones said on December 10. "It will also act as a powerful counter to those, especially in present-day

Turkey, who still ignore or deny the genocides of the Ottoman Christian minorities." The resolution stated that "the denial of genocide is widely recognized as the final stage of genocide, enshrining impunity for the perpetrators of genocide, and demonstrably paving the way for future genocides." The Assyrian population of Iraq, for example, remains highly vulnerable to genocidal attack. Since 2003, Iraqi Assyrians have been exposed to severe persecution and "ethnic cleansing"; it is believed that up to half the Assyrian population has fled the country. Extensive supporting documentation for the Assyrian and Greek genocides was circulated to IAGS members ahead of the vote, and is available at http://www.genocidetext.net/iags_resolution_supporting_documentation.htm. For further information, please contact: Gregory Stanton, IAGS President (iagspresident@aol.com) Adam Jones, IAGS Resolutions Committee (adam.jones@ubc.ca) FULL TEXT OF THE IAGS RESOLUTION: WHEREAS the denial of genocide is widely recognized as the final stage of genocide, enshrining impunity for the perpetrators of genocide, and demonstrably paving the way for future genocides; WHEREAS the Ottoman genocide against minority populations during and following the First World War is usually depicted as a genocide against Armenians alone, with little recognition of the qualitatively similar genocides against other Christian minorities of the Ottoman Empire; BE IT RESOLVED that it is the conviction of the International Association of Genocide Scholars that the Ottoman campaign against Christian minorities of the Empire between 1914 and 1923 constituted a genocide against Armenians, Assyrians, and Pontian and Anatolian Greeks. BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Association calls upon the government of Turkey to acknowledge the genocides against these populations, to issue

The term 'genocide' was invented by Raphael Lemkin. It means the intentional destruction of a group/community. It does not necessarily mean mass industrial extermination as happened in the Holocaust, or mass killings by hand, as happened in Rwanda. The crucial point is that a series of events takes place so that a community/group no longer exists. This is why the conflict in Darfur is also a genocide - because the Sudanese government is intentionally destroying those communities by murder, displacement, rape and poisoning wells so that the refugees cannot go home.

So intentionally driving hundreds of thousands of Armenians into the deserts and mountains of Anatolia so that they die from hunger and starvation to ensure that that community no longer exists is also a genocide. In the legal sense it does not matter whether they were killed by bullets, knives or starvation.

On a related note, I reported on the Bosnian wars for The Times of London. Numerous Bosnian Muslim refugees told me that when the Bosnian Serbs arrived in their villages they would pick out community leaders such as teachers, lawyers, mayor etc and execute them in public. This planned murder of a community's leaders was also used by the Ottomans in their campaign against the Armenians. Quite a hideous irony, that the Bosnian Serbs, who sought to eradicate Bosnian Muslim/Ottoman culture used techniques of killing honed by the Ottomans themselves.

visit: adamlebor.com

Foxman Assures Gul that Genocide Bill is not Relevant

ISTANBUL (Marmara)--During his visit to the United States, Turkish President Abdullah Gul met Thursday with representatives of Jewish organizations, among them the Anti-Defamation League, who assured the Turkish leader that the Armenian Genocide resolution pending in Congress should not worry his government or the Turkish people.

During a meeting with ADL national chairman Abraham Foxman, Gul was assured of the organization's opposition to the Genocide Resolution, adding that the matter was no longer a relevant concern for Jewish organizations, which will continue to oppose the measure.

Foxman said that his organization was pleased that Turkey had friendly relations with the US, Israel and the Jewish-American community.

After his meeting with Gul, Foxman told reporters that the Armenian Genocide Resolution had ceased to be an issue, since it was not the Congressional agenda. After reiterating his organization's opposition, he added that utilizing the Armenian Genocide issue for political gain was wrong. He also urged for the creation of a council of historians to assess the events of 1915.

Friday, January 11, 2008

http://www.asbarez.com/

ggggggdfffffffffffffffffffffffffggggg

Dear Confused Turkish Soul....
 
Do yourself a favor and stop insulting people's intelligence!  Just because you put a gun to your own people's heads and force them to learn lies, doesn't mean you can do that to others.  

You should all note, how s/he quotes "GOOGLE"... and what kind of source is that?  I know you turks have created websites that published articles how the genocide of Armenians is a lie, but that's you writing it, that's not facts.

You provided no facts, just fantasy, just questions, hoping to create doubt in others minds.  Unlike in Turkey,  people are educated they know the difference between when you are leading them on and facts.

Ottoman Turks, Young Turks, Turks, etc... Remember in the early 90s, when the communist Russia fell apart, well the same leaders became leaders again but in an independent Russia.  The Russian Communist didn't just vanish and somehow new people populated Russia from the heavens above.

You really do insult the senses of common sense.  But then hey you don't care, as long as you spread lies.

It is sad that you take pride in lies!

Interesting question isn't it?  We have heard these terms so much.... Holocaust what happened to Jews and Genocide what happened to Armenians. 

My question is this:  Can Holocaust exist without Genocide, or are they completely different things?  Well here are some more questions...

How did Holocaust came about?  How did Genocide came about?  How did massacres came about?  How did wars came about?  How did murders came about?  How did hate come about?  How did jealousy came about?  How did selfishness came about?

I believe it is all connected, all these terms describe a different stage of how groups of people reach to the point of genocide and holocaust.  One learns from another, one perfects their plan... and that's how we end up from genocide to holocaust.