The only reason that such an innocent remark would set one off is if one is insecure in their Jewish identity.

As a convert to Judaism, and a flagrant sinner with the goyisha name of Luke, I too at times feel the rage you describe. But that only says something about me and my insecurities.

When non-Orthodox Jews rage at Orthodox Jews who do not regard non-Orthodox streams of Judaism as legitimate, that reveals more about the insecurity of those non-Orthodox Jews who so desperately seek the authentication of the Orthodox than it does about the mean Orthodox. Those non-Orthodox Jews who are secure in their Jewish identity are not upset that Orthodox Jews do not regard their religion as authentically Jewish.

My theory holds for all sorts of feelings of rage when one’s identity is questioned. I remember when I was 19 and covering the San Francisco 49ers for radio stations KAHI/KHYL in Sacramento. I was hanging out in the press room at the 49ers training camp at Sierra Community College and a veteran writer asked me what I was doing there.

I told him and then questioned what he was doing there.

I was annoyed at being challenged precisely because I was insecure in my own bonafides as a reporter.

Feeling Jewish does not make one Jewish. For instance, I’ve noticed that the people who describe themselves as proud Jews and as having "Jewish values," are invariably the most ignorant Jewishly and the least observant. Jews who practice Judaism every day feel no need to assert their Jewish values nor their Jewish pride and they have no insecurity about their Jewish identity.

If one ever feels insecure about their Jewish identity, they need to learn Hebrew, study Torah, do mitzvot and pray daily with a minyan. If you do so, I guarantee that within a few weeks, your insecurity on this score (and many others) will dramatically diminish. But if one does not do these things, then you are a Jewish fake and no assertions of Jewish pride will mask your inauthenticity.

No Luke Ford blog post is an authentic Luke Ford blog post without a mention of sex, so here goes:

In my experience, women overwhelmingly regard anything they feel as right and legitimate. I rarely encounter a woman who is able to say that something upset her but looking at it rationally she realizes a truth that goes contrary to her feelings.

I would never tell anybody in the situation above to not get upset. They feel what they feel and all feelings are legitimate, but that does not mean that the thinking that creates such feelings is smart.

I usually get upset when somebody (particularly when they are in authority) points out to me bad things I am doing, but that does not mean that they are not right and that I am not wrong (even if I am not able to admit that in the moment). In some instances, what is true and right and good is more important than what we feel.

As Michael Medved says, "Liberals say — follow your heart. Conservatives say — do your duty."

Those who can take Luke's macho approach are doubtless best off doing so. But I still think that the sort of ignorance Monica's describing is a problem that needs to be confronted in the Jewish community. Born Jews with virtually no knowledge of Judaism are too often obnoxiously skeptical about the Jewish authenticity of people who have made the effort and commitment to become Jewish. The average Jew-by-choice is a fount of Jewish learning in comparison to the average Jew-by-ancestry, and this should be reflected in popular communal attitudes toward converts.

Monica's friend says "I wonder if this is always how it will be for me." Based on what I've seen my guess is that yes, it will. A bit of Luke's contrariness would stand her in good stead, and hopefully over time as a community we can make that garbage groundless hubris less common among Jews-by-ancestry.

In the words of my friend, B(the one who said, "I wonder if this is always how it will be for me" )-- "I'm as Jewish as fucking Tevyah" (or, so says John Goodman's character in The Big Lebowski).

Your comments also apply to the many completely unobservant Jews who've told me,  "There shouldn't be women rabbis or cantors;  it's not right."  I can understand it when traditionally observant Jews take this position--though I still completely disagree with them--because they're speaking out of a genuine commitment to Jewish tradition as they understand it.  But someone who knows little-to-nothing of Judaism, and never sets foot in shul except as a Bar/Bat Mitzvah guest, simply lacks the authority to dictate what practicing Jews, of any movement, should do.

Agreed, Michael. Though to be honest, I'm not all that interested in haughty lectures from the informed and observant, either. Well, I am interested in their haughty lectures, but only because I'm willing to tolerate some self-satisfaction while I try to suck the information from their brains and bounce various unexpected stimuli off them to see how they respond. But generally I prefer my Jews like stray cats or Quakers: open to forming loose ad hoc congregations, but generally too self-involved and self-contained to get a buzz off of lecturing.

I periodically get shit from (some) rabbis and underage undergrads recently converted to orthodoxy (which usually does not preclude them from taking a final exam on a Shabbat, oftentimes while high on stimulants) -last one asked me when was the last time that I did something Jewish. Since my efforts towards informing Jewish communities of the evolution of antisemitism in various parts of the world didn't seem to count (that's a problem, what with my Jewish self being centrally defined by the event of the assassination of a good part of my ancestry in the Nazi camps), I pointed to my dedication to volunteering. That didn't seem to impress him too much, either. Especially since I also happen to volunteer on Shabbat (of course, I don't give a toss to start with since I'm a secular atheist) -but I just have to recall that one of those Shabbat, one of my Jewish cancer patients commented on my taking notes on Shabbat and quickly corrected himself by saying, "Oh, no, of course you can, it's a mitzvah." Between the patient's and the rabbi's, guess whose comment I cared most about.   All this to say: screw the intolerant idiots.

I started to draft a reply to some of these comments when I realized Luke Ford already said it better than I would:

"When non-Orthodox Jews rage at Orthodox Jews who do not regard non-Orthodox streams of Judaism as legitimate, that reveals more about the insecurity of those non-Orthodox Jews who so desperately seek the authentication of the Orthodox than it does about the mean Orthodox. Those non-Orthodox Jews who are secure in their Jewish identity are not upset that Orthodox Jews do not regard their religion as authentically Jewish.
***
I usually get upset when somebody (particularly when they are in authority) points out to me bad things I am doing, but that does not mean that they are not right and that I am not wrong (even if I am not able to admit that in the moment). In some instances, what is true and right and good is more important than what we feel"

I agree that there's a lot to what Luke said. Non-orthodox Jews ought to have the courage of their convictions and stop expecting affirmation from people who can't possibly offer it. But I thought Monica was commenting on Jewish community's suspicion toward converts or others who show interest in Judaism, rather than on Orthodox rejection of other approaches to Judaism. And I do think poor attitudes toward converts are a problem and a rather obnoxious one. A shanda, a hillul hashem, all that stuff. But it's probably more intense among non-practicing Jews than practicing ones.

That's great, Anonymous, except for the fact that your comment (actually, I suppose it's Luke Ford's) has little to do with the original post. First of all -- the man who questioned me was not an Orthodox Jew -- he is completely secular, and knows very little about Judaism actually. He was a nice guy who made an ignorant assumption, which I find fascinating, if slightly frustrating, considering my commitment to Judaism and all things Jewish.

 Second, I was "desperately" seeking no one's "authentication." I was minding my own business when along he came. If I'm not mistaken -- is it not wrong, according to rabbinic law, to even label someone a convert? So I would think, along those lines, that it might be more appropriate for someone, if they're curious, to ASK rather than make such a grand assumption and label another person from the standpoint of ignorance.

Regarding this part of your/Luke's comment: I usually get upset when somebody (particularly when they are in authority) points out to me bad things I am doing, but that does not mean that they are not right and that I am not wrong (even if I am not able to admit that in the moment). In some instances, what is true and right and good is more important than what we feel"

Again, not sure what this has to do with the original post. The man who questioned me was a colleague, not an authority figure. He pointed out no "bad things" that I was doing. This was not an issue of right/wrong, but rather of decency and common courtesy, both of which were severely lacking in the exchange.

Sorry Monica, I should have been clearer. I was really responding more to the comment by Francois about his reaction to comments from orthodox.

Ah, I see . . . no problem.

Imagine a Gentile being mistaken for being Jewish and acting as horrified as you seem to have been, describing the honest error as a "terrible assumption".

I'll promise to be expansive about all sorts of cultures if you do, and not implicitly suggest that being thought of as a Jew, Gentile etc. is "terrible". Actually, I'll do so whether you do or not, but you really should.

And why in the world would you eat at The Cheesecake Factory, anyway?

Umm, thanks for the advice, but let's not forget about context. This is not about race or ethnicity -- this is about Jewishness/Judaism as a mode of being or a religious choice. These are things that cannot be determined by any kinds of racial/ethnic/physical identifiers. I was at a symposium with other scholars of Jewish literature (the majority of whom are Jewish) and had demonstrated, in this man's presence, in many instances a deep knowledge/understanding of Jewish literature and Judaism -- the assumption felt strange and rude (though unintentionally rude) to me, and quite a few people who heard him were taken aback by his comments to me.

I did not say that it is "terrible" to be mistaken as a Gentile, a Jew, or anything else. I said that assumptions of this kind (rather than courteous questions in the absence of real understanding) are terrible, and possibly offensive. I think assumptions of all kinds are potentially very bad, in any context. I would think this makes sense.

"I had demonstrated....a deep knowledge/understanding of Jewish literature and Judaism..."
"I think that assumption of all kinds are potentially very bad, in any context."

How about the assumption that your knowledge of Jewish literature and Judaism should have marked you as Jewish in your interlocutor's eyes? Doesn't this support his parochial notions about the unimaginability of Gentiles being interested in and knowledgable about Judaism?

To the anon who asked the question at 3:18, there wasn't anything "parochial" in Monica's post. Given the subject matter and Monica's statement that the majority of the attendees were Jewish, I think she was right to feel uncomfortable by this question: "I'm always amazed to see non-Jewish people attending this symposium, and I'm always interested in why people who aren't Jewish would want to study Jewish literature," he said, looking at both my friend and me"

The male scholar's assumption should have been that she was Jewish, absent something to contrary. I'm assuming she wasn't wearing a cross or something else indicating she was not Jewish.

I never said a word about Monica's post being parochial. Her questioner's remarks were, though, as is your notion that it is reasonable to assume that scholars interested in Judaism must be Jewish.

C'mon, based on Monica's statement there was more than a fity percent chance she was jewish just by the numbers attending the event. Why did the male schholar assume she wasn't jewish, against the probablilities? Because she didn't look jewish?

Monica,

You said you are deeply committed to being Jewish, or something like that. Well, that does not make you Jewish. If you were not born Jewish through the mother's line, or raised Jewish by progressive standards with at least one parent being Jewish, then you must formally convert in order to be a Jew. That is the current standard.

Of course, that standard may change. It has changed before. It used to be that if your mother was not Jewish, you were not Jewish even if your father was Jewish and you were raised practicing Jewish traditions.

I think it is perfectly fine for standards to evolve and progress, but there must be a standard, even if it carries certain ironies, such as the man at the party being considered Jewish even though he knew far less than Monica about Judaism (again, Monica, I am not clear if you are a Jew or not because I don't know if you formally converted). Why is sticking to a standard important? Well, it is important because religion and tradition cannot just exist willy-nilly if they are to be strong, vibrant and authentic. Afterall, if one can simply enter the Jewish faith at will, one can exit at will too. Does that not dilute Judaism? I think it does. But, that does not mean the standard cannot evolve. As I said, it can. But, again, we must follow the standard as laid out by those who have held up and developed that standard for millennia: the rabbis.

Now, if you have converted or are converting, then you are Jewish -- not a convert -- just Jewish. I do not believe there is a hierarchy. Once a Jew, you are just like all other Jews.

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So, in line with my restatement of the current definition of a Jew, as given to us by rabbis and incorporating the progressive standard, Lukeford is wrong when he calls Jews who celebrate X-Mas fake Jews.

Now, Lukeford, all Jewish denominations hold to the rule "Once a Jew, always a Jew." If they are Jews by birth or conversion, Orthodox belief considers them to be always Jews, even if they have converted to Christianity. I think Reform would also, plus Reform would extend the Jewish status to those raised Jewish with at least one Jewish parent. And, of course, celebrating X-Mas can take different forms in the modern world, many of which hardly acknowledge Christ, let alone count as conversion. But, even if they did, as I said, you cannot convert out of Judaism. The best you can do is to not talk about your background if you want to avoid the Jewish label.

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And, I agree with Joey saying that this issue must be confronted. I would also re-stress the importance of following the standard set by rabbis as they continue to interpret Jewish law. They decide who is Jewish and who is not because they, and only they, have the authority to do so. Afterall, they are educated for just that task.

So, it is not up to just any Jew to decide who is a fellow Jew. Period.

If you want to change the current standards, then study, become a rabbi and advocate for your position.

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I must have missed something. Did Monica say her mother was not Jewish or that she was not otherwise Jewish as a convert? The last few posts seemed to assume that. Did I miss a post?

I'm unsure, but I believe Monica is a full-fledged convert.

I agree that we must have standards by which to judge who a Jew is, who has converted etc.  And I agree that those standards should not be relegated to the uninformed or unlearned.  Having said that, and having studied talmud and Jewish law for 12 years, traditional Judaism actually is much more pluralistic than it has played out in the past 100-200 years.  A so-called "Orthodox" conversion 100 years ago was much easier than today.  500 years ago even easier.  I doubt Rabbi Akiva would even recognize the draconian "rules" of today.  You see, the Talmud is chok full of a variety of opposing opinions--all with bases in Judaism.  Rabbi Galilee, a giant in the Talmud, ate chicken paremesean!!!  Another giant said it was ok to have tattoos of G-d.  I have no tattoos and I do not crave cheese on my chicken, but we think of traditional Judaism as unbending and hard, but in reality, that my way or the highway approach has really only taken off in the past couple hundred years--even more so in the last 50.  So before we start judging conversion and other fundamental concepts, maybe we should take a look at 2000 years of scholarship.  We might just find that one of our sages is not on the side you thought they were.  There is a lot more in the circle of Judaism than we thought!