Joey Kurtzman, you are to be commended for doing a great deal of historical research.

I would enjoy reading a few scathingly clever paragraphs of your own personal religious and political core of beliefs; The Salt Lake Tribune would probably be happy to print it.

Ziffen, I'm afraid I can't tell whether you're being sarcastic.

I was not being sarscastic, I just would like to read your personal assessment of your own religious and political views, using the same soapbox oratory. If you have the time.

What are the questions you wanted to ask?

Okay, so sure, I'll do up an echo of the above post, applied to my own religious/political views. But what about the above post am I attempting to reproduce? The second part of the post was a defense of Romney's right to run for Prez without having to be subjected to a media Inquisition as to the nature of his LDS beliefs. And I suggested that if LDS doctrine is "silly," it's no sillier than Catholicism, mainline Christianity, Judaism, or any other tradition involving belief in the supernatural. Is it that you want me to poke fun at the some of the far-fetched components of Jewish theology? I'll be spoiled for material.

The first part of the post was a jokey recounting of something I've genuinely experienced: recurring amazement at the off-the-charts American-ness of Mormonism. So now that we have a Mormon who's a viable candidate for President, it sometimes rings odd to me when I hear practitioners of other faiths question whether a practitioner of LDS Mormonism is suitable for high office in this country.

So...is it that jokey golly-gee-wow thing that you want me to do with my own religion/politics?

Give me a little more info, and I'll do it up.

There is nothing in the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints about your first quote (the constitution and hanging by a string).  That quote was made up by someone and passed on without any official citation.  It doesn't exist. 

"There is nothing in the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints about your first quote (the constitution and hanging by a string). That quote was made up by someone and passed on without any official citation. It doesn't exist."

Joey said it was Mormon lore, told by oldtimers. He didn't say it was in the official gospels of the LDS. I took his statment as similar to the Chabad lore that when Moshiach comes, 770 will be transported instantaneously to the Temple Mount (squashing the Dome?). Which raises a question: Is Chabad the Mormons of Judaism?

I, sir, am going to find someone in Chabad who will answer this question for Jewcy. If not Chabad, maybe David Berger.

Just so you know the original Mormon quote is -- "Even this Nation will be on the very verge of crumbling to peices and tumbling to the ground and when the constitution is upon the brink of ruin this people will be the Staff upon which the Nation shall lean and they shall bear the constitution away from the very verge of destruction"  No where does it say the Constitution will be hanging by a thread. It was recordedby Martha Jane Coray in her notebook as she listened to a discourse by the Prophet Joseph Smith. It is not a sanctioned doctrine of the Mormon Church. -- A Mormon Historian

Joey, scathingly clever (aka "jokey golly-gee-wow") is the tone I had in mind for an article based on your own beliefs. By the way, I appreciated your defense of Mitt Romney's religious beliefs not being germane to the real issue at hand in this election, that being one of leadership ability. You're a good writer.

An account of Joseph Smith giving the so called "white horse prophesy" was published by the church.  Therefore it is (or at least was) a sanctioned doctrine of the Mormon Church. 

I thought your article was entertaining. I'm LDS (Mormon) and still really enjoyed it. It was funny but not vicious. What can I say! Even though I laughed at several of the things you mentioned (most of it referring to Mormon folklore - some of it to doctrine) I still believe what I believe. :) That being said I don't see any harm in a friendly bit of poking fun at other people.

Joey Kurtzman. if you're not an American then why do you care about about our president? You don't even understand our USA Constitution. Our contitution protects us. true Americans honer our constitution. It says we can hire a Mormon or a Jew or a woman for president. However if America can protect her self then she can proect other countrys too.

inmycircle says, "Joey Kurtzman. if you're not an American then why do you care about about our president?"

When my father was a child, he and my grandfather used to sing "It's a Grand Old Flag" while riding bikes down the boardwalk in Atlantic City (before the casinos spoiled it). Beat that. I'm so American I'm practically Mormon.

"I, sir, am going to find someone in Chabad who will answer this question for Jewcy. If not Chabad, maybe David Berger."

Go for it Joey. I'd enjoy reading that piece. Not David Berger though. I respect him, but he is too biased against Chabad.  You need a real Chabadnik.

Give it some thought (and my apolgies to both Mormons and Chabadniks for comparing their respective faiths):

Tanya : Book of Mormon

770 :   Salt Lake Temple

Alter Rebbe :  Joseph Smith

Shluchim : Ok, the young Mormons only do it for a few years, but you get the point

 

Cheers,

Yaakov

Yaakov says, "Go for it Joey. I'd enjoy reading that piece. Not David Berger though. I respect him, but he is too biased against Chabad.  You need a real Chabadnik."

Wanna give me a head start? Any Chabadnik in particular who you would like to see write that post? Or who you think would at least consider writing it?

Try Rabbi Shiffren (aka the Surfing Rabbi). I think he has enough of a sense of humor to tackle this. Tell him it's a good outreach effort.

His contact info is on his website, so I should be able to post it here:

Email: rabbisurf@aol.com

Rabbi Nachum Shiffren
P.O. Box 214
Santa Monica, Ca.
90406
310-877-1482

I came across this article by use of the stumble button. I am of the LDS faith. I liked that you did not trash the religion as many other religions do. As a person of the Jewish faith I am sure that your family has been persecuted for their beliefs, mine has as well, we were displaced, killed, and put into general prison states. Mitt Romney has as much right to try and make our country better the same as any of the "righteous" Christians that have run before him. Thank you. Great Article.

Yaakov - I think that if you look very closely Tanya is not really the Chabad version of The Book of Mormon.

The Chabad- Lubavitch movement - as it is today - is actually the cult of the Rebbe - Rabbi Menachem M Schneerson.

The Alter Rebbe - is of little or no importance compaired to the Rebbe.

But there is an interesting parallel between the New Jerusalem being in America both in Chabad and Mormon.

For Chabad - 770 IS ACTUALLY THE TEMPLE! NOW! 

more interestingly - the Thrid Temple will become manifest at 770' only then to be transported to Jerusalem -

The point is - not what is fact or fiction but rather the intended effect on the believer ?

To take such a simplistic and superfical look at Chabad and their Messianic beliefs means that you are

I would throughly recommend my own 369 page document on the Messinic Doctrine of the Lubavitcher Rebbe - 

www.atzmus.com

 

Just got off phone with Rabbi Shiffren, he asked for an e-mail with questions about specific similarities between Mormonism and Chabad, and says he's happy to respond for publication on the site.

I'll send him that e-mail anon, working from Yaakov's comments, but let me know if anyone has got any other inquiries related to that underexplored interesection between Chabad and Mormonism! 

I have been saying that Chabad are the Mormons of Judaism for *years*.  Thanks for bringing it up Yaakov!

Chabad are the Hare Krishna of Judaism!

Chabad are the Jews for Jesus of Judaism!

Chabad are the Neo-Christians of Judaism!

Chabad is the Zen of Judaism!

Chabad are the Hippies of Judaism!

Chabad are the Jews of Judaism!

Chabad are the  Mafia of Judaism!

Chabad are the whatever bollox you want to say - they are who you are - they reflect you and what you think of yourself.

Chabad doesn't exist - btw - it's Lubavitch

Chabad is the Philosophy

Lubavitch is the community

Chabad is the name of the group in Israel

Israelis are a bunch of Israelis!

 

I'm sorry but the Mormon parallel is one of the weakest

All it means is that you don't know shit about it

That makes me sad, 

This isn't about looking - it's about seeing

Projecting your own answers - the 'reasons' why you live you life a particular way - on to the most public face of Judaism today

It means that this parallel is saying more about you and your own relationship to Judaism than it is about any genuine commonality between two religious groups

Ha Ha Ha - that's so funny - 

Look at those f*ing Jewish Mormons - Those Bloody Amish - Those Blacks - Those Pakies - Those Yocks - Those f*ing idiots that don't live like i do - that don't have the same world veiw as me

You are a buch of .... Lubitchers!

Joey  this is what i'm talking about when I originally said that Jewcy is Self-Depricating 

 

Max,

You clearly take yourself (and me) too seriously :)

My Chabad - Mormon comparison was not meant to criticize either group. Personally, I am simple Jew, a modern am haaretz, who fears the Lord who created the heavan and earth.

When I compared the Tanya to the Book of Mormon, I was comparing how those works are interpeted by Chabadniks and Mormons today, not how they may have been interpreted when written and not by their plain/literal meaning.

I disagree with your suggestion that Chabad is whatever you want it to mean, at least in the US. I have spoken and worked with many shluchim in the United States. They clearly have a common theology (at least up until the day the Rebbe died).

 

yes i do