...these kinds of hatreds and organized hate campaigns have to be orchestrated by people with the resources to mobilize.  Still, ridding the world of government sort of neglects the entire last 300 years' history--the development of centralized power and nation-states has not been entirely evil, nor is it something any sane person can wish away.  Centralized power was necessary to the creation of raods, networks of communication, the avaliablility of health-care.  Large-scale urbanization, which was also a result of the rise of central government and nation-states, also forced a spatial experience that led to salon life, the buzzing of ideas in the public sphere and the very possibility of any form of effective organized self-governance.   Not that this coin doesn't have its dark side, many points Mike just made.  Most specifically, the idea of nationalism has had a similar effect--at heart it is a form of outgrouping and tribalism, which makes it inherently dangerous.  At the same time, it is the form of social organization that signaled the end of the era of naked empire.  It is hard to concieve (though some are trying) of a newer and better way of 'imagining community,' to use Benedict Anderson's term.  Ottoman history shows a very different relationship of Jews, Muslims and Christians prior to the advent of nationalism.  Bombing Iran is a terrible idea.  But to suggest that it is only late 20th century Anglo-American Western meddling that has created problems in the Middle East is to neglect the entire history of Ottoman sultans selling economic advantage to Europe in the form of the capitulations.  lester seems to think that if we'd just leave the Middle East alone, everything would be dandy--that's hardly the case.  Unfortunately, after Europe bought and ultimately subjugated the majority of the Ottoman empire, especially upon defeat in WWI, most of the countries in question were stripped of their autonomy and their existence still continued to serve interests in Europe.  This is why the piety of Europeans--especially the British, Germans, French and Russians--over the Iraq war smells fishy.  For anyone with a historical memory at all, the issues in the region absolutely must be interpreted with the capitulations, the Great Game, and imperialism in mind.  There is a distinct odor of passing the buck and washing one's hands of colonialism, fascism, and Nazism--all gifts from the continent.  Which leads us to the other issue--fascistic ideas filtered their way into the Middle East by way of scholars who went to Europe for their education (for instance, Ba'athism was practically birthed in Vichy France).  But while fascism was defeated and discredited in Europe, it lived on in spirit in the regimes of the Middle East.  Neither the U.S. nor Britain is responsible for having invented fascism or for its migration to the oil-rich Middle East (though they DO bear blame for having allowed these regimes to thrive according to ther use in the Cold War).  If lester imagines that these poisonous ideas can inform governments and all will be well as long as they are just left alone, he's got very little comprehension of where fascism's necessary end lies.  It is not an isolationist or non-aggressive way of life.  I find it amazing to see that Freund and Raimondo actually get billed as intellectuals, given the absolute poverty of the arguments they've presented to one another.  No one has yet offered sufficient evidence that Iran will develop nuclear weapons sooner than its fed-up liberal majority will turn Iran around.  According to Danny Postel, activists in Iran mainly read Hannah Arednt, Isaiah Berlin and Habermas.  A new liberalized superpower in the Middle East inspired by the ideas of such thinkers--one that has good memories of America's right action and support as opposed to bad memories of its constant militaristic interventions couldn't be such a bad thing, does anybody think?  Its no more idealistic than Freund's imagining that dropping bombs will inevitably lead to security for America and Israel.  AND its far more realistic than Raimondo's fantasy that a clerical oligarchy who jails famous fiction writers and murders them in prison could be so unthreatening.