"And Cav...yes, the state of Jewish education correlates negatively to income and education--just my sense of it"
That isn't what I said. If you're going to say "Are you sure about your figures?" to Seraph and make a generalization that you say is "just [your] sense of it," which I take to mean you're not willing to back up your assertion with any facts, you may want to rethink your strategy.
In all US communities (non-Jews as well as Jews) that I'm aware of, there is a correlation between higher education/income and lower birth rates. This probably has nothing to do with people with advanced degrees having inadequate yeshiva larnin', as we called it in the South. It probably has everything to do with 1) perceiving a logistical choice between raising a family vs. getting more secular education and hope for a better job, 2) having educational goals interrupted by unexpected children often is a permanent interruption, with resulting lower income, 3) delaying raising children until the advanced degree is completed often also becomes permanent, because the next big thing is finding reliable work, and then the demands of a career.
Now on the other hand if you want to advance the "better Jewish education : less secular schooling" argument, you might take a look at Jehovah's Witnesses for comparison; they actively discourage their kids from going to college because as soon as they are done with high school they are supposed to be doing missionary work, and they might be exposed to such infernal teachings as evolution and pluralism and tolerance at Satan University. Is a "good" yeshiva education one that is viewed as incompatible with college and graduate education? and if so, might that be part of the reason for the correlation between "good" yeshiva schooling and less secular education? Further, is a "good" yeshiva education one that hinders going to college for logistical reasons? I have no idea, having not had any Jewish education myself as my parents were secular and I am only coming to Judaism as an adult (full disclosure: with a MA degree). But it's a valid question. If you want good religious education and an advanced degree, let's say a MSW, what extra hoops do you have to jump through to get it?
I'm interested in knowing how many people are joining religions who were formerly unaffiliated, and which ones. It's not just a story of people's individual self-determination leading them away from the faiths of their childhood, but stories of individual self-determination leading them to choose some kind of religious practice. There is some movement to the reverse, even if it's not as much, and here I am as an example.
Cavanaugh
To Naftali
"And Cav...yes, the state of Jewish education correlates negatively to income and education--just my sense of it"
That isn't what I said. If you're going to say "Are you sure about your figures?" to Seraph and make a generalization that you say is "just [your] sense of it," which I take to mean you're not willing to back up your assertion with any facts, you may want to rethink your strategy.
In all US communities (non-Jews as well as Jews) that I'm aware of, there is a correlation between higher education/income and lower birth rates. This probably has nothing to do with people with advanced degrees having inadequate yeshiva larnin', as we called it in the South. It probably has everything to do with 1) perceiving a logistical choice between raising a family vs. getting more secular education and hope for a better job, 2) having educational goals interrupted by unexpected children often is a permanent interruption, with resulting lower income, 3) delaying raising children until the advanced degree is completed often also becomes permanent, because the next big thing is finding reliable work, and then the demands of a career.
Now on the other hand if you want to advance the "better Jewish education : less secular schooling" argument, you might take a look at Jehovah's Witnesses for comparison; they actively discourage their kids from going to college because as soon as they are done with high school they are supposed to be doing missionary work, and they might be exposed to such infernal teachings as evolution and pluralism and tolerance at Satan University. Is a "good" yeshiva education one that is viewed as incompatible with college and graduate education? and if so, might that be part of the reason for the correlation between "good" yeshiva schooling and less secular education? Further, is a "good" yeshiva education one that hinders going to college for logistical reasons? I have no idea, having not had any Jewish education myself as my parents were secular and I am only coming to Judaism as an adult (full disclosure: with a MA degree). But it's a valid question. If you want good religious education and an advanced degree, let's say a MSW, what extra hoops do you have to jump through to get it?
I'm interested in knowing how many people are joining religions who were formerly unaffiliated, and which ones. It's not just a story of people's individual self-determination leading them away from the faiths of their childhood, but stories of individual self-determination leading them to choose some kind of religious practice. There is some movement to the reverse, even if it's not as much, and here I am as an example.