Bernard Lewis and The Spectre of Comparisons

Anyone wanting to know more about attempts to declare the Jewish Holocaust unique, and utterly incomparable with all the other Genocides, should read Stannard's "Uniqueness as denial." Stannard makes a whithering case that notions of Holocaust uniqueness break down almost immediately after only a little research. We need to stop this type of grandstanding, "my holocaust was worse than your genocide," it distracts from the real work at hand; condemning and confronting all massacres, and gross violations of human rights.  

Then Armenians need to recognize Genocide, which they perputrated against Turks and Azeris. There were horrific human rights violations and incredible massacres of Turks and Azeris by Armenians as well. In 1905-1908 Azeri civilian population was massacred by Dashnaks in Nakhchivan, Karabakh and Zangezur. Later, in 1918 in a matter of 3 days 14,000 Azeris have been massacred in the city of Baku (capital of Azerbaijan) alone by Armenian Dashnak army who were backed by Russian Red Army. What about those human rights violations? Or Azeris and Turks are not considered to be humans? My grandparents were affected by those massacres and had to flee their village in Nakhchivan.

 And since we are talking about human rights violations, massacres and ethnic cleansing, then we should remember current illigal occupation of 20% of Azerbaijani territory by Armenia. Then we should remember Khojaly, Kelbajar and Lachin massacres, where thousands of Azeri and Kurdish civilians were ruthlessly slaughtered by Armenian forces only 15 years ago! The whole Karabakh and all other 7 regions around it have been ethnically cleansed of all non-Armenians. Not a single non-Armenian lives in these areas today. Not Jews, not Kurds, not Talyshs, not Azeris. Everyone was forced out, massacred or taken hostage. This is the real Genocide! One million Azeri refugees! That means 1 out of 8 people in Azerbaijan is a refugee! Highest refugee and internal displaced persons rate per capita in the world!

Khojaly massacre, where civilians (and many of them little kids) were shot at point blank, cut in pieces, scalped, burned alive, raped, had their eyes poked out just because they were Azerbaijani (or as Armenian say "Muslim Turks") is a real Genocide! And it was not 100 years ago, it was in February of 1992. If you all for human rights and justice, then lets recognize these events as Genocide. Or once again, Azerbaijanis are not considered to be humans? Or all the massacres carried out by Armenians are actually good and carry no evil? You are bunch of blind hypocrats!

The real Genocide Denial is when Armenians use photos of massacred Azeri children and display them during their events and publish them in newspapers around the world and claim the photos to be "Armenian victims of genocide".

Anonymous,

Enough with your lies and fabrications poluting this site.

The one who is poluting this site is you. If you can prove my lies, then do it, otherwise don't waste anyone's time. You are the real genocide denier!

Yes, the Armenians killed so many Azeris in Nakichevan, that there are a total of 0 Armenians living there today, and the population is 100% Azeri Muslims.  And killing off the Armenian people of Nakichevan was not enough.  The Azeri Turks hate Armenians so much, that they have leveled not only every single Armenian church and monastary in that land, but even the ancient Armenian cemetary, the largest known in the world, was completely and finally destroyed in 2005.  Over 10,000 Khachkars, each one of them a unique piece of sculptured art, each worthy of protection, can be seen hammered, pulverized and thrown into the adjacent river in this video:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZu2zqFE_gI

And when confronted by the press associated with this destruction, here is what Azeri "scientists" had to say about it:
Azer-Press Informsiya Agentliyi, an Azerbaijani source, quotes Dr. Vali Bakhshaliyev, a member of Azerbaijan’s National Academy of Sciences, as saying, “The claims of Armenian[s] are historically and ethnically groundless. There was not any Armenian graveyard in Julfa.” Dr. Bakhshaliyev referred to the publication of photographs and videos from mid-December (2005), which showed about 100 Azerbaijani soldiers destroying the last historic headstones (khachkars) of the Armenian cemetery of Old Julfa (Hin Jugha).

From Wikki:

After the last Russo-Persian War and the Treaty of Turkmenchay, the Nakhchivan khanate passed into Russian possession in 1828. With the onset of Russian rule, the Tsarist authorities encouraged resettlement of Armenians to Nakhchivan and other areas of the Caucasus from the Persian and Ottoman Empires. Special clauses of the Turkmenchay and Adrianople treaties allowed for this.[25] Alexandr Griboyedov, the Russian envoy to Persia, stated that by the time Nakhchivan came under Russian rule, only 17% of its residents were Armenians, while the remainder of the population (83%) were Muslims. After the resettlement initiative, the number of Armenians had increased to 45% while Muslims remained the majority at 55%.

From Wikki: 

Nakhchivan khanate (Naxçıvan xanlığı in Azerbaijani) was a feudal state that existed in the territory of the present-day Nakhchivan Autonomous Republic.

The khanate was ruled by local Azeri-Turkic Kangarli dynasty and the population of the khanate was mostly Muslim (Azeri-Turkic and Kurdish). It was founded in 1747 by Haydar Quli Khan, who declared himself the ruler of Nakhchivan after the death of Nadir Shah Afshar, the ruler of Persia. During the rule of Panah khan of Karabakh khanate Nakhchivan was the dependency of Karabakh.

During Russo-Persian War of 1804-1813, Russian forces under general Gudovich briefly occupied Nakhchivan in 1808, but as a result of Treaty of Gulistan it passed into Persian hands. After the second Russo-Persian War of 1826-1828 and the Treaty of Turkmenchay, Nakhchivan khanate passed into Russian possession in 1828. The ruler of the khanate Ehsan khan supported Russia in the war against Persia and was conferred by the Russian authorities the rank of major-general of the Russian army and the title of campaign ataman of Kangarly militia.

With the onset of Russian rule, the tsarist authorities encouraged massive resettlement of Armenians from Persia and Turkey to Nakhchivan and other areas of the Caucasus. Special clauses of the Turkmenchay and Adrianople treaties allowed for this. According to Russian envoy to Persia Alexandr Griboyedov, the number of Armenian population resettled to Nakhchivan in 1828 exceeded all reasonable limits, and this resulted in tensions between the newcomers and local mainly Muslim population. Griboyedov requested Russian army commander count Ivan Paskevich to give orders on resettlement of some of the arriving people further to the region of Daralagoz to quiet the tensions.

Nakhchivan khanate was dissolved in 1828, its territory was merged with the territory of the Erivan khanate, which in 1840 was renamed the Erivan province of the Russian Empire. Nakhchivan became the Nakhchivan uyezd of the province.

After dissolution of the khanate the khans of Nakhchivan remained the most influential power and de-facto rulers of the region. Nakhchivan khans became known in the Russian empire by the surname of Khan Nakhchivanski and the men of the family traditionally chose military service. Six Khans Nakhchivanski became generals in Russian tsarist, Soviet and Iranian armies. Sons of Ehsan khan Ismail khan and Kalbali khan were both awarded orders of Saint-George of IV degree for the services in battle and were generals in Russian army. Son of Kalbali khan Huseyn Khan Nakhchivanski was a prominent Russian military commander and adjutant general of the Russian Emperor, and his nephews Jamshid and Kalbali were generals in Soviet and Iranian armies respectively.

1747 - 1787 Haydar Quli Khan

1787 - 1823 Kalb` Ali Khan

1823 - 1828 Ehsan Khan

1828 - 1834 Karim Khan Kangarli

Keep On Dividing Into Ours And Outsiders.

Azerbaijanis were also exposed to genocide.

By: Grigory Volinski,

Candidate of Historical Sciences.

This thought is not as disputable as it is unusual. It is accustomed to consider other nations to be victims of genocide. And so much of absolute truth crushed down when it became possible to evoke facts that have been hid in the archives for a long time as x-files. The history of Azerbaijan is as tragic as the history of its neighbor: recently, regarding this, president Heydar Aliyev has signed a decree about the genocide of Azerbaijanis. But these papers were condemned by the Armenian official government, which had been under a strong impact of the radical party "Dashnaksutun" lately. And this is my opinion: it is immoral to divide nation according to whether they have suffered more or less, and it is immoral to try to usurp the right on grief and search for sympathy towards it.

The aristocracy of Azerbaijan looking forward to becoming a part of the ruling class of Russia, actively began getting accustomed to the European civilization. Beys, who received officer ranks in the Russian Army started speaking French, and even more, they wrote poems and plays in this language. The Russian service men and diplomats, who were the best Orientalists of that time, considered the new citizen of the country a constructive element for Russia. And they complained of the fact that the officials of the citizenship administration, who were replacing the service men, didn't know Islam and were discriminating Moslems in their rights.

Petersburg did not worry about the loyalty of Azerbaijanis until the moment, when Russia added Yerevan and Nakhchivan khanates, that bordered Turkey. These territories populated by Azerbaijanis and bordering the enemy nation-state seemed dangerous to strategists, who did not realize the essence of the Sunni-Shiite contradictions. The top level of the Russian ruling class worked out a plan of populating the strap of land between Azerbaijanis and Turks by representatives of other faith, that is Armenians. This idea was especially defended by a Russian diplomat of Armenian origin colonel Lazarev. He stated that Armenians needed "to be returned to Yerevan, Nakhchivan and Karabakh, from where their ancestors were forced to flee to Turkey and Persia". Alexander Griboyedov*, who knew the history of the region, named these statements absolutely groundless and appealed to explained Azerbaijanis that Armenians would be migrated to their lands temporarily. But soon Griboyedov perished in Persia...

General Paskevich was one of the supporters of the Russia's relying on the Moslem population of the region. To his mind, the Karabakh, Yerevan and Nakhchivan cavalries were included in Russian forces during the regular Russian-Turkish war. They were assigned to protect the boarders with Persia. The counter Paskevich highly appreciated the military valor of Azerbaijanis. Thanks to his petition, the emperor Nicholas I rewarded the service men of the Moslem provinces with his banners. But after the general's return to Petersburg, the hostile treatment towards Moslems (which is understandable for the country, which has been fighting with Turks and Tatars for a long time), lead to the fact that Nakhchivan and Yerevan khanates were announced an Armenian province, which seemed to Russian military men to be a springboard for wars against Turkey. Of course the point was obtaining Konstantinopol* and control of the straits. Thus, the first immigrants from Turkey - 8 thousand Armenian families started appearing in Nakhchivan.

In Turkey according to the Moslem rights, Armenians were a part of the "protected population" and were supposed to develop trade, crafts and industry. Considering themselves to be infringed upon their political rights, they were eager to immigrate to the Christian Russia.

According to the Russian historian N.Shavrova, just in the years of 1828-1830 more than 100 thousand Armenians were settled on the best fiscal lands of Karabakh and Yerevan (present Armenia) regions, where the number of Armenian population was insignificant. They were given 200 thousand dessiatina* of the private Moslem lands. For comparison: Russians were given about 70 thousand dessiatina of land. Out of 1.2 million of all the immigrants to Transcaucasus Armenians made up 1 million. Encouraged by the government, newcomers without land they turned into influential part of the Caucasian society.

In Tiflis and Baku these former Turkish Armenians formed a bourgeoisie strata, which controlled the trade and a big share of oil industry. Keeping in touch with relatives living in Turkey they formed local organizations of the revolutionary party "Dashnaktsutun" in these cities. This party is famous for its terrorist activity, aimed at establishing an independent Armenian nation-state within the Armenian boarders of the II-III centuries. (According to the Armenian version, it included the territory of the Middle East and the whole Transcaucasus). The First World War and the Russian Revolution considerably speeded up the activity of the Dashnaks*.

The next wave of Turkish Armenians' immigration on Russian territory (Yerevan and Nakhchivan) took place in 1915 after the unsuccessful attempt of establishing an Armenian state in Turkey. The Dashnak armed divisions blamed Azerbaijanis in their failure, saying that Azerbaijanis were out of this Armenian-Turkish conflict. Since the year of 1918 population started to be driven away from Yerevan and other places populated by Azerbaijanis.

Andranik, an Armenian officer who had been chased by Turks himself, ruined more than 40 Azeri villages in Nakhchivan and Zangazur. In Zangazur alone more than 10 thousand people were killed (the third of it were children). After that Andranik sent a telegram to the Chairman of the Baku Communa, Stepan Shaumian, in which he declared himself supporter of the Soviet government.

But Shaumian was already surrounded by distinctive supporters of the new government members of Baku Soviet. On March 18, the Dashnak armed divisions encouraged by Shaumian organized Azeri massacre in Baku, under pretense of fighting with the counterrevolution. 12 thousand people were killed, several Moslem blocks of the city were burnt down, the main Baku mosque was fired at. The massacres were stopped after the energetic interference of other Baku commissars - Petrov and Japaridze, who threatened to start shelling the Armenian blocks of the city. The Dashnak armed divisions withdrawn from Baku, ruined and plundered the ancient capital of Azerbaijan - Shamakhi, Guba and other cities. And Shaumian, explaining his alliance with Dashnaks, wrote, that while struggling with the enemies of the Soviet government he, purposely wanted it to look like a national massacre in order not to let announce Baku the capital of Azerbaijan striving for independence.

In 1918-1919 about 280 thousand Azerbaijanis were driven away from Yerevan, no less that 70 thousand were killed. What else can we name this, but genocide? And this crime seems even more pointless and cruel (if that is possible) when one realizes: people were killed even not for their nationality, but for its similarity with the other one, ethnically relative nationality, they were revenging for what Turks have done once. The history has not known anything like that before.

In Yerevan and partially in Tiflis the process of "deAzerbaijanization" of historically Azeri lands began. More that 400 Azeri place-names were replaced by Armenian ones, a lot of Azeri cultural monuments were destroyed, none was left out of 14 mosques in Yerevan. If in 1920 Azerbaijanis were making up 45% of the population of Armenia, then in 1988 they were only 6%.

Josef Stalin considered it his duty to continue the czar's policy of conquering the Black Sea strait. With this aim, "to strengthen the rears" in 1948 he permitted repatriation of Armenians abroad. By 1953 about 150 thousand Azerbaijanis were moved out of Armenia in order to make room for the repatriates.

Since Turkey as a NATO member has lost its military independence, it seems that it is high time to reject the stereotypes, dividing nations into ours and outsiders. And though the Central Committee department on international relationships could have made an efficient report to the General Secretary, saying that during the Russian-Turkish war Azerbaijanis were fighting for Russia only, Mikhail Gorbachev closed his eyes on the proscription of the last 200 thousand Azerbaijanis from Armenia in 1988.

The Soviet troops watched passively the proscription of Azerbaijanis from Armenia. By that time the leaders of "Dashnaktsutun" have already moved from Athens to Yerevan.

The further we go, the more we see. At the beginning of 1992, just when Karabakh war was in full swing, Vice Prime Minister of Armenia Grant Bagratyan addressed to Yegor Gaydar, who was carrying out the duties of the Prime Minister of Russia. Bagratyan asked Moscow's permission to organize production of assembling-constructing, sport and hunting cartridges. Gaydar's resolution said: " To the Ministry of Industry of Russia (Mr. Titkin). Please discuss and make a decision. "As if it was not clear what these cartridges would be used for.

The Russian-Armenian cooperation that starting with the production of cartridges grew into the famous large scaled deliveries of armament to Armenia. And while talking about the vulnerability of this country, which is "doomed to alliance with Russia" it is ignored that none of the neighbor states claims its territory. Iran and Georgia are friends with Armenia. There is a large Armenian community in Istanbul, members of which are even in the parliament, in Istanbul only there are more that 10 newspapers and magazines published in Armenian language. Isn't this the base for strong future relationships between two neighbor states, which are interested economically in each other?

Now, when 1 million of Azerbaijanis had been driven off their lands we can hear: Russia just like the US needs a advanced post in Islamic world, and Armenia, "surrounded with enemies" is something like a Russian Israel, ready to defend Russia's interests in the region.

But the theorists are using 30 year old American intellectual working outs. Israel did oppose Arabs. But Azerbaijan is a member of CIS, it is Russia's ally. And the United States never supported Israel against the countries that they had oil interests in, they were never against the countries that were culturally and economically oriented on the USA. And finally, despite the long war with Arabs, in Israel 14% of citizen profess Islam, and the Arabic language is considered the second state language.

Having paraphrased the famous apothegm of Nietzsche, we can say: stereotypes are worse enemies of the truth than lies. Politics are history turned into the future. And it can not succeed, if untrue stereotypes of the past are in its base. Czar Nicholas I did not know the difference between Shiites and Sunnis; the General Secretary Stalin did not admit moral limits in expanding the empire; General Secretary Gorbachev kept on dividing nations into ours and enemies, which led to the collapse of the country.

The Azerbaijanis had paid completely with the blood of their sons and with their lands for getting accustomed to the European civilization.

And what about that video? There is absolutely nithing that could somehow prove that these are Azerbaijani soldiers or that it is a destruction of Armenian cemetery. It's just a video of bunch of people dressed in some military uniform, digging something. How can you prove that it is even in Nakhchivan? For all I could see, it can be Armenian soldiers destroying Azerbaijani cemeteries or monuments in Armenia or in Karbakh. What's next? You going to make a cartoon and present it as Armenian facts? Pathetic.

Yes, it must be another Armenian conspiracy.  What we did was we had Chris Angel, the Mindfreak, figure out a way to make it look like those Khachkars have disappeared.  But in reality they are still all there, except that they are now invisible.

Anonymous keeps mentioning that Russia encouraged Armenians to settle in Nakhchivan, but fails to mention that Armenians were depopulated from that very same land, but 150 years earlier by Shah Abbas. Apparently history starts in 1828, and all demographic considerations before that are irrelevant. Besides, the occasional Khan that ruled Nakhchivan doesn't mean Armenians weren't living there

Nakhchivan, same as Karabakh belonged to Caucasian Albania, not Armenia. Azerbaijanis are descendants of Caucasian Albanians. Armenians are Indo-European people who moved to Caucasus from Balkans. The Haig (Armenian) tribe was part of Thraco-Phrygia and Phrigians moved first to Anatolia and then to Caucasus from Balkans. Armenian language is not Caucasian and your race is not Caucasian. You are not the indegenous people of the region and there is nothing in Caucasus that belongs to you.

Nakhchivan, Karabakh and Yerevan before 1800s belonged to Qara Goyuns (Turkic tribe). After that, the region was under Safavid Empire and Ottoman Empire (Turkic empires). For centuries, this whole region was switching hands from Turks to Persians and Armenians there constituted a MINORITY. The majority of population was Turkic and only 20% Armenian. Way before that, the area was populated by Khazars.

The only time when Nakchivan became part of Armenian state is during Armenian occupation and expansion. But that Armenian state existed only for 50 years. It was not your "ancient" lands. If you want your ancient lands, go back to Balkans and demand it from Albania and Bulgaria.

Two of the most quoted versions are provided by Herodotus, the fifth century B.C.E. historian, and Strabo, the geographer and historian writing at the end of the first century B.C.E. According to Herodotus, the Armenians had originally lived in Thrace, from where they crossed into Phrygia, in Asia Minor. They first settled in Phrygia, and then gradually moved west of the Euphrates River to what became Armenia. Their language resembled that of the Phrygians, while their names and dress was close to the Medes.

According to Strabo, the Armenians came from two directions: one group from the west, or Phrygia; and the other from the south, or the Zagros region. In other words, according to the ancient Greeks, the Armenians were not the original inhabitants of the region. They appear to have arrived sometime between the Phrygian migration to Asia Minor that followed the collapse of the Hittite Empire in the thirteenth century B.C.E., and the Cimmerian invasion of the Kingdom of Urartu (existed ca. 900 - 590 B.C.E.) in the eighth century B.C.E. In 782 B.C.E., the Urartian king, Argishti I, built the fortress-city of Erebuni (present-day Erevan, capital of Armenia). The decline of Urartu enabled the Armenians to establish themselves as the primary occupants of the region. Xenophon, who passed through Armenia in 401 B.C.E., recorded that, by his time, the Armenians had absorbed most of the local inhabitants.

The Linguistic Evidence

Modem archeological finds in the Caucasus and Anatolia have presented sketchy and incomplete evidence of the possible origins of the Armenians. Until the 1980s, scholars unanimously agreed that the Armenians were an Indo-European group who either came into the area with the proto-Iranians from the Aral Sea region, or arrived from the Balkans with the Phrygians after the fall of the Hittites. Some scholars maintain that Hay or Hai (pronounced high), the Armenian word for "Armenian," is derived from Hai-yos (Hattian). Hence, it is argued, the Armenians adopted the name of that empire as their own during their migration over Hittite lands. Others maintain that the Armeno-Phrygians crossed into Asia Minor, took the name Muskhi, and concentrated in the Arme-Shupria region east of the Euphrates River, where non-Indo-European words became part of their vocabulary. They stayed in the region until the Cimmero-Scythian invasions altered the power structure. The Armenians then managed to consolidate their rule over Urartu and, in time, assimilated most of its original inhabitants to form the Armenian nation. According to this theory, the names designating Armenia and Armenians derive from the Perso-Greek: Arme-Shupria.

As of the early twenty-first century, Western historians maintain that Armenians arrived from Thrace and Phrygia, while academics from Armenia argue in favor of the more nationalistic explanation; that is, Armenians are the native inhabitants of historic Armenia.

Bibliography

Bournoutian, George A. (1992). The Khanate of Erevan under Qajar Rule, 1795 - 1828. Costa Mesa, CA: Mazda Press.

Bournoutian, George A. (1994). A History of Qarabagh. Costa Mesa, CA: Mazda Press.

Bournoutian, George A. (1998). Russia and the Armenians of Transcaucasia: 1797 - 1889. Costa Mesa, CA: Mazda Press.

Bournoutian, George A. (1999). The Chronicle of Abraham of Crete. Costa Mesa, CA: Mazda Press.

Bournoutian, George A. (1999). History of the Wars: 1721 - 1738. Costa Mesa, CA: Mazda Press.

Bournoutian, George A. (2001). Armenians and Russia: 1626 - 1796. Costa Mesa, CA: Mazda Press.

Bournoutian, George A. (2002). A Concise History of the Armenian People. Costa Mesa, CA: Mazda Press.

Bournoutian, George A. (2002). The Journal of Zak'aria of Agulis. Costa Mesa, CA: Mazda Press.

Hovannisian, Richard. G. (1967). Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918. Berkeley: University of California Press.

Hovannisian, Richard. G. (1971 - 1996). The Armenian Republic. 4 vols. Berkeley: University of California Press.

Libaridian, Gerard. (1991). Armenia at the Crossroads. Watertown, MA: Blue Crane Publishing.

Libaridian, Gerard. (1999). The Challenge of Statehood. Watertown, MA: Blue Crane Publishing.

Matossian, Mary Allerton Kilbourne. (1962). The Impact of Soviet Policies in Armenia. Leiden: E.J. Brill.

Nalbandian, Louise. (1963). The Armenian Revolutionary Movement. Berkeley: University of California Press.

Suny, Ronald Grigor. (1993). Looking toward Ararat. Bloomington: Indiana University Press.

—GEORGE A. BOURNOUTIAN

Caucasian Albanians were one of the Ibero-Caucasian peoples, the ancient and indigenous population of modern southern Dagestan and Azerbaijan. Ancient chronicles provide the names of some tribes that populated Caucasian Albania, including the regions of Artsakh and Utik. These were Utians, Mycians, Caspians, Gargarians, Sakasenians, Gelians, Sodians, Lupenians, Balas[ak]anians, Parsians and Parrasians.[4] According to Robert H. Hewsen, these tribes were "certainly not of Armenian origin", and "although certain Iranian peoples must have settled here during the long period of Persian and Median rule, most of the natives were not even Indo-Europeans".[4] Strabo wrote about the Caucasian Albanians in the 1st century BC:

“
At the present time, indeed, one king rules all the tribes, but formerly the several tribes were ruled separately by kings of their own according to their several languages. They have twenty-six languages, because of the fact that they have no easy means of intercourse with one another [5]
”

The Mannaeans had one of the earliest states recorded as being established in the area as far as the Kura from ca. 800 BC, and they were rivals of Urartu and Assyria, but later fell under the rule of Urartu until their destruction and eventual assimilation by the Medes under Cyaxares in 616 BC. In ancient times, they were mixed with the Persian people who settled in the area during the Achaemenid, Parthian and Sassanid periods.

Guys, stay on topic please, we can't have this happening every single post on the Armenian genocide.  Back on topic, I agree that the argument of uniqueness is denial.  This isn't stating that the Armenian Genocide, the Holocaust, the Rwandan Genocide, the Bosnian genocide are all the same.  Although some may be very similar there are still differences.

Robert Melson wrote a great book that does a comparative analysis of the Holocaust and Armenian Genocide.  The similarities provide insight into the conditions that seem to exist that make Genocide easier to commit.  One of them is a state of warfare.  Another is the ability to turn a majority population against a minority population by portraying the minority population as a parasite that wishes to destroy the majority.  One of the differences between the Holocaust and Armenian Genocide, of course, was the German propensity for organization and documentation.  Another difference is that Germans, although killing greater numbers, did not manage to eliminate the Jews completely from their ancestral homeland.  This is something that is unique in modern times to the Armenian Genocide.  Certainly, the Europeans did that to Native Americans, but it took several centuries for Europeans to accomplish what the Turks accomplished in 3 years.

The difference between Jewish Holocaust and what happened in 1915 in Ottoman Empire is the following:

1. Armenians had their own armies.

2. Armenian nationalists attacked and slaughtered thousands of Turkish and Kurdish civilians in Ottoman Empire.

3. Armenians allied themselves with an enemy of Ottoman Empire and tried to create their own state from the Ottoman Empire's territories

4. Armenians were deported only from areas where Ottoman Empire bordered Russia, thus eliminating the threat of further loss of Ottoman territories and human lives of Ottoman citizens. In other parts of the Empire Armenians continued on with their normal lives.

5. During the same period of time, Armenian forces and irregular formations continued massacres against another nations in Caucasus: Azerbaijanis and Georgians.

6. Armenian forces not only simply fought against Ottoman troops but also seized control and occupied cities, towns and villages with mostly Tuskish population and massacred most of the civilians in these regions.

7. Ottoman Empire had several fronts of battles against numerous allied forces and was under constant attack.

8. After the end of war, many Armenians came back and settled the same areas of Ottoman Empire.

9. There is no evidence, no proof what so ever that Ottoman government ordered a systematic killing of Armenians. No documents hold such information. In contrary, there are documents from the highest ranks of Ottoman government, instructing the military to guard Armenian civilian population while it is being deported.

Following your description of meaning of word Genocide, we should also recognize the Genocide committed by Armenians against Turks and against Azerbaijanis from 1905 through 1920. We should recognize Khojaly Genocide of 1992. We should recognize Genocide of all Turkic people, committed by Russian Empire and Soviet Russia: deportations and massacres of Adygei, Tatars, Cherkess and Circasians. We should recognize Genocide against Turks, committed by Bulgaria, Greece and Serbia during WWI. All of these countries were part of Ottoman Empire but during the WWI all of Turkish population was either massacred or deported from Balkans.

Why is it when innocent civilian Turks are getting massacred, it is OK? Why is it when Armenians massacre Azeris just because of their nationality, it is not considered to be a Genocide? Why nobody wants to even talk about what Armenian nationalists did to thousands of Turkish civilians in Ottoman Empire? How come no one is mentioning massacre of Azeris in the beginning and the end of 20th century by Armenians? Why nobody wants to talk about 20% of Azerbaijani territory that are currently being occupied by Armenia? Why no one mentions about 1 million Azerbaijani refugees, ethnic cleansing and Khojaly Genocide? It is all out there in documents, condemned by U.N., U.S. State Department, European Union, Human Rights Watch Group, etc... How come you are all silent about that? Is it inconvenient to talk about? Or is it that Turkish and Azerbaijani lives are not as important? Where is your so much talked about justice and democracy? Or is it simply a flat-out Hypocracy?

Khojaly Genocide, committed by Armenians:

http://www.khojaly.net/photo.html

http://www.khojaly.net/video.html

Now tell me that this is not a Genocide:

EYEWITNESSES

Daud Kheyriyan, “For the sake of Cross…”, page 24, published by “Ash-Sharg” (East) agency in Beirut:

“… Sometimes we happened to march on dead bodies. In order to cross a swamp near Dashbulag, we have paved a road composed of dead bodies. I refused to march on dead bodies. Then colonel Oganyan ordered me not to scare. It is one of military laws. I have pressed my one foot onto the breast of a wounded girl aged 9 or 10 years and marched…

My legs, my photo camera were in blood…”

Daud Kheyriyan, “For the sake of Cross…”, page 62 and 63:

“… the Armenian group “Gaflan” (dealing with burning of dead bodies) have collected 100 dead bodies of Turks (Azerbaijani) and burned them in a place located one kilometer from Khojaly to the West on March 2… I saw girl aged 10 and wounded in hands and in head lying in last truck. Her face was already of a blue color. But she was still alive despite of hunger, coldness and wounds. She had a little breath. I cannot forget her eyes striving with death… Suddenly a soldier called Tigranyan took that body and thrown it on other dead bodies… Then they have burned dead bodies. It seemed to me that someone was crying in fire between dead bodies… After all I could not go further. But I wanted to see Shusha… I returned. And they continued their battles for the sake of Cross….”

KHATIRA TELMAN ORUJOVA, 8 years old…

Scars remained forever on a soul of this little 8 years old girl will grind a rock… She recalls that awful night…

We were asleep. Suddenly we heard a strange boom… In that moment, we observed neighboring houses torched… We ran down to tunnels.

How many persons were you?

My dad, mom and four children. My aunt Sevil was with us. Two neighbors and their two children… We spent four hours in tunnel.

Where did you get that you have remained there for four hours?

Our neighbor said that we are here for four hours. Then, a man named Shaig came up and said that other side of neighborhood in fire, get away to forest and we ran into there. My little sister named Khayala was in ma’s hands and other sister was carrying by my pa.

The night has fallen in forest. Dad said put your watch on six. We were stopped in Nakhichevanik. Guides has gone ahead to ask a route, but they did not get an answer. We remained in deep forest. When sun was rising they shoot my mother. Then, the bullets reached my aunt. She was seventeen years old. Her name was Sevil. My mother Irada was twenty six years old. I don’t know the age of my father. His name is Telman Orujov…

When Armenians shoot me, my mother was close to me. Her wound didn’t let us to run away. I was lying next to my mother. We lost our dad in forest. Then, suddenly I felt carried by a militia man to Agdam.

Khatira’s mother is not with her now to correct her saying. She asked me about her mother… She sent me I replied. She is in hospital of Agdam. She was so thoughtful when asking the surname of her mother…

“Irada Orujova” - came the reply. (I found her surname after she told her story in forest.) She shaked her head…

No. My mother holds her maiden surname. Then, tell me her hair, are they soft or short? I did not know what to reply…

If I would reply I could convince her. At least, I could to see her quiet while medical treatment… I was so embarrassed… That was the most awful tragedy… Why I couldn’t tell her mother’s hair or surname…?

JEAN-IVE-YUNET, journalist (France)

...We happened to be the witnesses of Khojaly massacre, we saw the dead bodies of hundreds of civilians- women, children, old-age people and defenders of Khojaly. We managed to fly by helicopter, we were taking photographs of every­thing we saw around Khojaly at a height of a bird's flight. However Armenians started shooting our helicop­ter and we couldn't manage to finish our job. That was a terrible scene. I heard a lot about wars, about cruelty of German fascists, but Arme­nians went beyond them, killing 5 or 6 year-old child­ren, innocent people. We saw a lot of injured people in hospitals; carriages, even in kindergarten and school buildings.

V. Belykh “Izvestia” newspaper reporter

... The dead-bodies ex­changed for the alive host­ages are occasionally brought to Agdara. You won't see it even in a nightmare: pierced out eyes, cut off ears, scalped heads, cut off heads. A number of corpses were dragged by ropes after the armed personnel earners. There was no limit to hu­miliation…

SARIYA TALYBOVA, the resident of Khojaly.

...They brought us to the Arme­nian cemetery. It is hard for me to describe what happened here. Four young Turks-meskhets (they fled from Uzbekistan and took shelter in Azerbaijan- Editor's Commentary) were shot dead on the grave of an Armenian armed man to sacrifice for him. Then they cut off the dead men's heads. Later the soldiers and Armenian bandits started killing and torturing the children in front of their parents.

Then the truck arrived and it threw the corpses into the ravine. But they didn't satisfy their appetites yet, these predators with human appearance brought two Azerbaijanis wear­ing national army uniform and pierced their eyes with screwdrivers...

Mushfig ALIMAMEDOV, the resident of Khojaly. Escaping from the town he was injured and had been left to lie on the snow for 2 days:

.... We had guns: machine-guns, rifles, shotguns. We didn't have any ammunition or food. We were exhausted by a long-term blockade. On February 25 Arme­nians started shooting at mid­night, armed forces and vehicles launched the attack. First they captured the airport and burnt it down. They didn't spare anyone, either old-age people and women or children. Many people were burned alive in their homes, espe­cially near the airport. An awful smell of burned meet haunts me even now...

Most of town-defenders were killed in action. The survivors were trying to escape in the woods on the way to the village of Shelli to break through to Agdam. They were ambushed near the Armenian village of Nakhichevanik on the way to Agdam.

Many people were killed in the ambush near the village. The di­rector of the airport Alif Hadjiyev was killed here. He was there to rescue women. He was the one to have organized the efficient work of'the airport. Armenians had al­ready promised the award for his - life before.

MINESH ALIYEVA, 50, the resident of Khojaly, with a bullet wound in the arm.

...We wandered along the woods falling through the deep snow. When we were crossing the road a bullet lodged in my arm. I fell down and couldn't get up.

A very intensive shooting started from the wood and shel­ters. Alif grabbed me and started pulling to the rear of the road. Then he rushed towards the bushes to hide and-.started retaliat­ing shooting at Armenian armed men. Shooting from the woods ceased for some time. Alif started shouting at the women lying on the other side of the road and ordered them to cross the road them to cross the road as soon as possible. He used to shoot sporadi­cally and every time he did the Ar­menians stopped shooting. About 20 women managed to run across the road. When Alif started to change the-cartridge drum Armenians shot in retaliation. At this moment he was shot through the forehead. It was an awful sight...

ELMAN MAMEDOV, head of the executive power:

...The storming of the town started with artillery shelling that had been going on for 2 hours. Arme­nian armed men fired from tanks, armed personnel carriers, using shells of Alazan type. We were blocked from three sides. The only break out line was Askeran gap. When Arme­nian infantry soldiers launched the attack everything in Khojaly had been destroyed. Most of its residents had been shot dead. We defended the town down in trenches till 2 a.m. We failed to resist any more, the defen­ders and civilians started retreating. Having crossed the ice-cold river we were moving towards Keteen Mountain. A lot of people died on the way in the woods where they were frozen to death. We were walking until 7 a.m. when we came out of the woods near Armenian village of Nakhichevanik. We were trapped in a gorge, where Armenians armed with ma­chine-guns and submachine guns were waiting for us in armed person­nel carriers. That's when the real slaughter began. Armenians just shot and shot innocent defenceless people. Many children and women were shot dead here. Some people were fleeing towards the village of Gulably where about 200 people were taken hostage. We helped the survivors and some of the residents of the town managed to get to Agdam. Seven of my friends with me failed to get out of the am­bush, it was too late, but we got lucky; we found the cover from fire. We were hiding there from 9 a.m. till 8 p.m. And only in the evening when -it started snowing we managed to get out of.it and reach Agdam early in the morning of February 27.

CHINGHIZ MUSTAPHAYEV, Azerbaijan Television reporter:

… Dozens and dozens of shot dead people, children aged from 2 to 15, women, old age people. The location of- the corpses proves thaf it was a cold-blooded slaughter, there were no signs of re­sistance or attempts to escape.

Some civilians were-shot separ­ately, the others were killed in groups, or families. Some corpses have several wounds but every corpse has at least one wound in the head. It means that the wounded were fin­ished off afterwards.

The camera witnessed several children with their ears cut off. The skin from the left part of the old woman's face was missing. Men were scalped. There were corpses with the signs of pillage.

First time we arrived at the scene of massacre by two war helicopters on February 28. Up from the helicopter we saw the mountainside of about 500 metres long filled with corpses. The pilots were scared of landing be­cause the area was controlled by Ar­menian bandits. However when we managed to land and stepped onto the land the shooting started. The Internal Ministry men were to load the corpses and take them to the relatives of the dead. They managed to load only 4 corpses. We were all shocked. Two men after seeing so many dead and mutilated corpses fainted. Many people got sick..

The same thing- happened on March 2, when we flew there with foreign journalists. Many dead-bodies were even more mutilated than be­fore. They had been scoffed at for several days...

SANUBAR ALEKPEROVA, the resident of Khojaly

... Hasanabad, Mehdikend, Boz-dagy - these are the places they were shooting from. The land shud­dered at the sound of armoured in­fantry vehicles smashing into Khojaly. At first women and children were told to hide in the basements.

Then Elman Mamedov, head of the executive power came and said that we had to escape, otherwise we would be exterminated. Alif Hadjiyev, director of the airport organized a breakthrough through Armenian lines to lead the civilians to Agdam. We were trapped in an ambush near the village of Nakhichevanik. I_will never forget, what I saw here: there were -mountainsides tilled with corpses. My mother was shot dead. My daughters Hidjran and Sevindj were injured. At the same moment the bullet lodged on me. Young women and children perished from the wounds on the snow.

We had radio station with us. We cried, we tried to report what was happening, we begged for help, but nobody helped us.

DJAMIL MAMEDOV, the resident of Khojaly.

Tanks and armed personnel carriers destroyed the houses, smashed f down the'people.

Russian soldiers were followed by Armenian bandits. I took my 5-year-old grandson and 14.000 rou­bles and ran towards the woods. I took off my clothes and wrapped the child up in them so that he wouldn't die of cold. But it wouldn't help. We had to hide inside the snow with the child.

In the morning I realized that the child wouldn't stand the cold any more and I started walking towards the nearest Armenian village of Nakhichevanik where we were trapped by Armenian armed men. I begged them to take my money for the sake of the child and let us pass to Agdam. They cursed and beat me in response and brought me to their commander. He ordered to keep us locked up in the cattle-shed. There had already been Azerbaijani women and children. They kept us in the cattle-shed for 4 days without any food or water. But for one kind family that used to stealthily bring us some bread and water at night we could have died, we wouldn’t have been able to stand all these tortures. But there is no limit to anger. When four days later I was brought to Askeran with my grandson the events I saw lure were so awful that cattle-shed in Nakhichevanik seemed paradise to me.

Foreign mercenaries (I know Ar­menian and I can tell local Armenian people from foreign ones) pulled out my toenails. Negroes who were among Armenians were jumping high kicking me into the face. After these tortures I was exchanged for some Armenian. However they took away my grandson. I know nothing about the fate of my wife and my daughter.

YURI YAKHOVITCH, the private of infantry regiment no 366.

...They persuaded that we were Christians and we had to fight against Moslems. They kept us in awful subhuman conditions, we couldn't bear being there and we had desert the regiment and escape to Khojaly…

Leonid Kravets, officer, major.

On February 26 I was taking the wounded out of Stepanakert by helicopter and returning through Askeran gap. Some bright spots downwards took my eye. We started to descend and my co-pilot cried: Look! There are women and children over there. I saw about two hundred corpses scattered down- the hillside. Armed men were walking among them. Then we flew there trying to pick up corpses. Militia captain, I can't remember his name, was with us. He found his 4-year-old son with crashed skull and he went out of his mind. The other child that we had managed to pick up before they started shooting had his head cut off. I saw muttlated bodies of women, children, old -age people every­where…

Thomas Goltz (independent journalist) - Khojaly

Armenians killed 1000, Azeris charge.

THE BOSTON GLOBE
March 3, 1992
By Paul Quinn-Judge
(Front page headline)

BAKU, Azerbaijan-Azerbaijan charged yesterday that Armenian militants massacred men, women and children after forcing them from a town in Nagorno-Karabagh last week.

Azerbaijani officials said 1000 Azeris had been killed in town of Khojaly and that Armenian fighters then slaughtered men, women and children fleeing across snow-covered mountain passes.

Armenian officials disputed the death toll and denied the massacre report.

Journalists on the scene said it was difficult to say exactly how many people had been killed in surrounding areas. But a Reuters photographer said he saw two trucks filled with Azeri corpses, and a Russian journalist reported massacre sites elsewhere in the area.

Azeri officials and journalists who flew briefly to the region by helicopter recovered the bodies of three dead children who had been shot in the head, Reuters said, but Armenians prevented them from retrieving more bodies.

In the Azerbaijani capital of Baku,government officials said that communications with Shusha,the last Azeri foothold in Nagorno-Karabagh,were cut yesterday morning. The militant Azerbaijani Popular Front reported that Armenian troops backed by armor and artillery were moving closer to town.

Shusha was shelled again overnight,according to accounts reaching Baku yesterday.

Fighting over the enclave, administered by Azerbaijan but largely populated by ethnic Armenians, has flared into a full scale war over the last month.

In the four years up to this January, some 1000 people are believed to have been killed in the con- flict. Although figures are extremely unreliable, at least several hundreeds people have probably died in the past four weeks.

The Azerbaijani Popular Front has been predicting an attack on Shusha for the last two days. But information on the fighting inside the enclave cannot be confirmed independently.

Officials of both the Azerbaijani government and the Popular Front claim that the final attack on Shusha could be triggered by the withdrawal of the last units of the former Soviet army stationed in Nagorno-Karabagh, the 366th Regiment.

The withdrawal began yesterday, said General Nikolai Popov, commander of the Baku-based 4th Army, in a brief phone interview yesterday.

The Azerbaijan presidential press service, quoting the republic's Ministry of National Security, claimed that commonwealth troops were going to move out through Shusha, destroying the town's defences as they did so.

Popov said he did not know if the regiment would leave through Shusha. Asked who might know this, he answered, "No one's going to tell you." Commonwealth airborne units reportedly have been moved into Nagorno- Karabagh to cover regiment's withdrawal.

Officials in Moscow and Armenia said that the 366th Regiment, based in the regional center of Stepanakert [Hankendi -- Ed.], has been strictly neutral in the fighting.

Azeri sources, however, claim that the 366th has swung actively on the side of Armenians,notably in the capture of last week of the small town of Khojaly, on the road between Stepanakert [Hankendi -- Ed.] and Agdam.

There were growing signs that many civilians were killed during the capture of Khojaly.

Footage shot by Azerbaijan Television Sunday showed about 10 dead bodies, including several women and children, in an improvised morgue in Agdam. An editor at the main television station in Baku said 180 bodies had been recovered so far. A helicopter flying over the vicinity is reported to have seen other corpses, while the BBC quoted a French photographer who said that he had counted 31 dead, including women and children, some who appeared as though they were shot in the head at close range.

Meanwhile, the mayor of Khojaly, Elmar Mamedov, said at a news conference in Baku that 1000 people had died in the attack, 200 more were missing, 300 had been taken hostage, and 200 were injured. Armored personel carriers of the 366th [Regiment -- Ed.] spearheaded the attack, Mamedov charged, and cleared the way for Armenian irregulars.

If Shusha does indeed fall, its loss could send shock waves through Azerbaijani society.

"If we lose this war there will be another one, very quickly," an Azeri businessman predicted yesterday.

MASSACRE BY ARMENIANS

The New York Times, Tuesday, March 3, 1992

Agdam, Azerbaijan, March 2 (Reuters) - Fresh evidence emerged today of a massacre of civilians by Armenian militants in Nagorno-Karabakh, a predominantly Armenian enclave of Azerbaijan.

Scalping Reported

Azerbaijani officials and journalists who flew briefly to the region by helicopter brought back three dead children with the back of their heads blown off. They said shooting by Armenians has prevented them from retrieving more bodies.

"Women and children have been scalped," said Assad Faradshev, an aide to Nagorno-Karabakh's Azerbaijani Governor. "When we began to pick up bodies, they began firing at us."

The Azerbaijani militia chief in Agdam, Rashid Mamedov, said: "The bodies are lying there like flocks of sheep. Even the fascists did nothing like this."

Truckloads of Bodies

Near Agdam on the outskirts of Nagorno-Karabakh, a Reuters photographer, Frederique Lengaigne, said she had seen two trucks filled with Azerbaijani bodies.

"In the first one I counted 35, and it looked as though there were as many in the second," she said. "Some had their head cut off, and many had been burned. They were all men, and a few had been wearing khaki uniforms."

ARMENIAN SOLDIERS MASSACRE HUNDREDS OF FLEEING FAMILIES

The Sunday Times 1 March 1992
By Thomas Goltz, Agdam, Azerbaijan

Survivors reported that Armenian soldiers shot and bayoneted more than 450 Azeris, many of them women and children. Hundreds, possibly thousands, were missing and feared dead.

The attackers killed most of the soldiers and volunteers defending the women and children. They then turned their guns on the terrified refugees. The few survivors later described what happened: 'That's when the real slaughter began,' said Azer Hajiev, one of three soldiers to survive. 'The Armenians just shot and shot. And then they came in and started carving up people with their bayonets and knives.'

'They were shooting, shooting, shooting,' echoed Rasia Aslanova, who arrived in Agdam with other women and children who made their way through Armenian lines. She said her husband, Kayun, and a son-in-law were massacred in front of her. Her daughter was still missing.

One boy who arrived in Agdam had an ear sliced off.

The survivors said 2000 others, some of whom had fled separately, were still missing in the gruelling terrain; many could perish from their wounds or the cold.

By late yesterday, 479 deaths had been registered at the morgue in Agdam's morgue, and 29 bodies had been buried in the cemetery. Of the seven corpses I saw awaiting burial, two were children and three were women, one shot through the chest at point blank range.

Agdam hospital was a scene of carnage and terror. Doctors said they had 140 patients who escaped slaughter, most with bullet injuries or deep stab wounds.

Nor were they safe in Agdam. On friday night rockets fell on the city which has a population of 150,000, destroying several buildings and killing one person.

The SUNDAY TIMES, 8 March 1992

Khojaly used to be a barren Azeri town, with empty shops and treeless dirt roads. Yet it was still home to thousands of Azeri people who, in happier times, tended fields and flocks of geese. Last week it was wiped off the map.

As sickening reports trickled in to the Azerbaijani border town of Agdam, and the bodies piled up in the morgues, there was little doubt that Khojaly and the stark foothills and gullies around it had been the site of the most terrible massacre since the Soviet Union broke apart.

I was the last Westerner to visit Khojaly. That was in january and people were predicting their fate with grim resignation. Zumrut Ezoya, a mother of four on board the helicopter that ferried us into the town, called her community "sitting ducks, ready to get shot". She and her family were among the victims of the massacre by the Armenians on February 26.

"The Armenians have taken all the outlying villages, one by one, and the government does nothing." Balakisi Sakikov, 55, a father of five, said. "Next they will drive us out or kill us all," said Dilbar, his wife. The couple, their three sons and three daughters were killed in the massacre, as were many other people I had spoken to.

"It was close to the Armenian lines we knew we would have to cross. There was a road, and the first units of the column ran across then all hell broke loose. Bullets were raining down from all sides. we had just entered their trap."

The Azeri defenders picked off one by one. Survivors say that Armenian forces then began a pitiless slaughter, firing at anything moved in the gullies. A video taken by an Azeri cameraman, wailing and crying as he filmed body after body, showed a grizzly trail of death leading towards higher, forested ground where the villagers had sought refuge from the Armenians.

"The Armenians just shot and shot and shot," said Omar Veyselov, lying in hospital in Agdam with sharapnel wounds. "I saw my wife and daughter fall right by me."

People wandered through the hospital corridors looking for news of the loved ones. Some vented their fury on foreigners: " Where is my daughter, where is my son ?" wailed a mother. "Raped. Butchered. Lost."

CORPSES LITTER HILLS IN KARABAKH
(ANATOL LIEVEN COMES UNDER FIRE WHILE FLYING TO INVESTIGATE THE MASS KILLINGS OF REFUGEES BY ARMENIAN TROOPS)

The Times, 2 March 1992

As we swooped low over the snow-covered hills of Nagorno-Karabagh we saw the scattered corpses. Apparently, the refugees had been shot down as they ran. An Azerbaijani film of the places we flew over, shown to journalists afterwards, showed DOZENS OF CORPSES lying in various parts of the hills.

The Azerbaijanis claim that AS MANY AS 1000 have died in a MASS KILLING of AZERBAIJANIS fleeing from the town of Khodjaly, seized by Armenians last week. A further 4,000 are believed to be wounded, frozen to death or missing.

The civilian helicopter's job was to land in the mountains and pick up bodies at sites of the mass killings.

The civilian helicopter picked up four corpses, and it was during this and a previous mission that an Azerbaijani cameraman filmed the several dozen bodies on the hillsides.

Back at the airfield in Agdam, we took a look at the bodies the civilian helicopter had picked up. Two old men a small girl were covered with blood, their limbs contorted by the cold and rigor mortis. They had been shot.

MASSACRE IN KHOJALY

TIME, March 16, 1992
By Jill SMOLOWE
-Reported by Yuri ZARAKHOVICH/Moscow

While the details are argued, this much is plain: something grim and unconscionable happened in the Azerbaijani town of Khojaly two weeks ago. So far, some 200 dead Azerbaijanis, many of them mutilated, have been transported out of the town tucked inside the Armenian-dominated enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh for burial in neighboring Azerbaijan. The total number of deaths - the Azerbaijanis claim 1,324 civilians have been slaughtered, most of them women and children - is unknown.

Videotapes circulated by the Azerbaijanis include images of defaced civilians, some of them scalped, others shot in the head.

BBC1 Morning News at 07.37, Tuesday 3 March 1992

"BBC reporter was live on line and he claimed that he saw more than 100 bodies of Azeri men, women and children as well as a baby who are shot dead from their heads from a very short distance."

BBC1 Morning News at 08:12, Tuesday 3 March 1992

"Very disturbing picture has shown that many civilian corpses who were picked up from mountain. Reporter said he, cameraman and Western Journalists have seen more than 100 corpses, who are men, women, children, massacred by Armenians. They have been shot dead from their heads as close as 1 meter. Picture also has shown nearly ten bodies (mainly women and children) are shot dead from their heads. Azerbaijan claimed that more than 1000 civilians massacred by Armenian forces."

Channel 4 News at 19.00, Monday 2 March 1992

"2 French journalists have seen 32 corpses of men, women and children in civilian clothes. Many of them shot dead from their heads as close as less than 1 meter."

THE FACE OF A MASSACRENewsweek 16 March 1992

By Pascal Privat with Steve Le Vine in Moscow

"Azerbaijan was a charnel house again last week: a place of mourning refugees and dozens of mangled corpses dragged to a makeshift morgue behind the mosque. They were ordinary Azerbaijani men, women and children of Khojaly, a small village in war-torn Nagorno-Karabakh overrun by Armenian forces on Feb. 25-26. Many were killed at close range while trying to flee; some had their faces mutilated, others were scalped. While the victims' families mourned,"

Photo: `We will never forgive the Armenians': Azeri woman mourn a victim.

Report from Karabakpress

A merciless massacre of the civilian population of the small Azeri town of Khojali (Population 6000) in Karabagh, Azerbaijan, is reported to have taken place on the night of February 28 by the Soviet Armenian Army. Close to 1000 people are reported to have been massacred. Elderly and children were not spared. Many were badly beaten and shot at close range. A sense of rage and helplessness has overwhelmed the Azeri population in face of the well armed and equipped Armenian Army. The neighboring Azeri city of Aghdam outside of the Karabagh region has come under heavy Armenian artillery shelling. City hospital was hit and two pregnant women as well as a new born infant were killed. Azerbaijan is appealing to the international community to condemn such barbaric and ruthless attacks on its population and its sovereignty.

The Turks have absolutely perfected the childhood game that I knew as "tit for tat."  Someone brings up the Armenian Genocide and they start looking to change the topic.  When the French stand up for the truth with respect to the Genocide, the Turks start hollering about Algeria.  When the US Congress considers a non-binding resolution that simply REAFFIRMS the US RECORD on the events of 1915-1923, the Turks start screaming about slavery and the US Native Americans.   The Turks figure that they can keep us off topic if they start hollering about something else but yet they still refuse to stand up and acknowledge the horrific crimes against humanity perpetrated by their own ancestors.

 BTW, the Germans have actually acknowledged and APOLOGIZED for their part in the Armenian Genocide.  As many of you know, the Germans were right there in Turkey, helping, watching and learning as the Turks rid their lands of their Armenian subject population.  So, if the Germans could apologize not only for the Holocaust, but also for their role in the Armenian Genocide, the Turks should be able to to also.  Turkey stands alone on this one.  Stop changing the subject Turks and admit the truth.

Back to the post about the Azeris destroying Armenian graves and the poster who took the ridiculous position that these could have been Azeri graves, I ask that poster if he noticed the crosses on the stones.  Armenian artisans have been carving Khatchkars (Cross stones) for centuries to mark graves.  When I was last in Turkey, I saw with horror these ancient Armenian Khatchkars used as building stones in the homes of village Turks and Kurds.  The Armenian writing and designs are still present.  These ancient Armenian grave markers are used as steps to the entrance of dwellings and literally have been cut up and used to build homes.

The Turkish Governement does nothing to protect these artifacts and the people plunder them.  Across Anatolia, Armenian homes and churches lay in states of horrible disrepair.  Centuries old Armenian stone buildings which have withstood earthquakes, war and all else and for the last 90 years have been purposefully left to decompose. 

No, Anoosh, it's seems to me that it's not Turks who are trying to change the subject but Armenians who are trying to cover up their present-day attrocities by bringing up 100 year-old events and making it a priority of discussion in international community.

I believe it is more relevant to condemn and take actions against current massacres, ethnic cleansings and deportations (and as we see Armenians are guilty of them all) rather than throw around useless resolutions and having empty discussions about 100 year-old events.

So, lets not try change the subject and cover up your own wrong doings..

Ano 11/11 at 9:27

You have to be kidding me.  You deny that the Turks are trying to cover up the muder of over 1.5 million innocent souls?  Think about it!  1.5 million people. You think we are wrong to be bringing it up 90 years later. (Should we not continue to bring up the Holocaust because that is "Ancient History" also?)  You are right, its 90 years later and we are still bringing it up.  Indeed, we will still be bringing it up 90 years from now if the Turks continue their idiotic denialist policies.  We will not forget.  You don't get to practice a policy of extermination and then get to "get away with it."  I stand by my post.

With respect to the war in Artsakh, once again you all demonstrate selective memory when you fail to mention the 1988 pograms against the Armenians in Sumgait.  How about the 1990 porgrams against the Armenians in Baku?  And then you try to equate the death of 485 wartime casualties in Khojaly with the massacre of 1.5 million?  From all of your denialist strategies you should know enough about the UN definition of Genocide to realize that it is wholly inaccurate to describe Khojaly as a Genocide.  Particularly when a 1992 Helsinki Watch study found that armed soldiers were interspersed with the dead in Khojaly.

Oh, Anoosh, stop it. You sound exactly like a Genocide Denier. Mutulated bodies of children, women and old people, cut off body parts, shot at point blank, burned alive, taken hostage, hung, extermination of the entire city (not a single Azeri was left)  - this is not Genocide? And guess what, not a single Azeri or for that matter not a single non-Armenian is left in Karabakh and other Armenian-occupied territories. Heck, not a single Turk or Azeri left anywhere in Armenia. Armenia is the most homogenous state in the world! Is it not an ethnic cleansing, is it not a Genocide?

BTW, I thought you (Armenians) were always saying that it is not about number of dead but about the nature of killings and attrocities. And now you are making it all about numbers? Wow, what a hypocracy.

Anoosh, this is not about changing the subject because the argument is not about Native Americans or Algerians or someone else. This is about Armenians, about you - the involved party of the events of 1915. Massacres of Azeris and Turks in 1905, 1915, 1918, 1992 were all carried out by you - the involved party and not by Native Americans. Therefore, all that information is very much relevant.

In order to clearly understand what happened during the events of 1915, we need all the details form all the sides. We can't condemn one side without condemning the other if that other side was also involved in inhumane attrocities. I don't know, may be we should recognize Genocide of both people: Armenians and Turks. As I understand your number of dead is highly exaturated and the number of Turkish dead from Armenian assaults is no less than the number of dead on Armenian side. So why should we aknowledge only one attrocity and not the other?

Before you can point fingers at others and demand that they answer for what they have done to you, you should first be ready to answer for what you have done to others.

How dare you accuse ME of committing a "massacre" of Azeris and Turks.  In America, we have a word for what you have done...Defamation.  I have NEVER accused any of you of killing anyone.  Rather, I have accused you of denying the truth and polluting the internet with your lies.  That is totally different from what you say in the posts above.  Stop your libelous lies NOW!

 You know, if you bothered to actually open a dialogue with Armenians rather than  grasping at any lie you can to protect your national heritage, you might learn that the Armenians of the diapora have much softer feelings for Turks than you believe.  There were many Turks who saved Armenians during the Armenian Genocide.  My own grandmother was rescued from a death march in Der Zor by a Turkish lady and brought to the Turk's home to serve her.  (Slavery yes, but better than death.)  That same death march claimed the lives of my grandmother's sister and her two nieces.  My grandmother's parents had been killed by the Ottomans prior to that.  I certainly recognize that there were "Good Turks", those who defied the Ottoman Government's threat of death for assisting Armenians to help their Armenian neighbors.  We have all heard of the stories of the Turks who came to their Armenian friends and told them what the Ottoman Government had in store for them.  These same Turks hid Armenians in their barns and helped them to survive.  Where have all of those "Good Turks" gone??  In 1915, there were at least some righteous and moral Turks.  Are they all gone or do they still exist and its only the nationalist denialists who pollute the internet?  I wish that you could face your past and then I would be able to thank you for the Turks of the past who saved my own grandmother.

 With respect to Artsakh, your facts are totally wrong.  And, again, I ask you to refrain from using the word Genocide unless you can demonstrate how it applies.  Why don't you spend five minutes on the UN website, get the definition and show how it applies.   

Oh and while you are at it, get the International Association of Genocide Scholars to define those events as Genocide.  Finally, since you are all so big on the Hague, take your case to the Hague where you can present "futher research".

I have spent some time today thinking about the latest series of posts about the Armenian Genocide and whether or not they are relevant to Jewcy.  It seems to me that Jewcy and its fine people got involved in this issue because of their dissapointment with Abe Foxman and the ADL's initial refusal to acknowledge the Armenian Genocide and then later the tepid acknowlegement.  I just don't think Jewcy is the place for these idiotic debates that the Turks love to drag Armenians into. 

 I will no longer post here if it involves some stupid debate about whether the genocide happened.  Ask me about Abe. 

Amen Sister!  But feel free to mock these foolios at will.  It's lethargic!

First, we see exactly who are idiots here.

Second, Azerbaijanis don't need to take anything to Hague International Court because Azeris don't need third party's approval or recognition of Khojaly Genocide or events of 1905 and 1918. Azeris don't strive so desperately to gain a "Genocide" status. Azerbaijani people know exactly what happened to them on their own lands, they know who carried out those attrocities and perfectly understand how horrific and inhumane those attrocities were. These massacres by Armenians were already officially condemned by governments of international community (including U.S., European Union and Human Rights groups) and recorded by independent international journalists and historians. Besides the massacres, the occupation of 20% of Azerbaijani territories and ethnic cleansing carried out by Armenian forces were also officially recognized and condemned by everyone, except for Armenia. Azeris don't care what you or anyone esle calls those attrocities: Genocide, Massacres, Holocaust or whatever else. Labeling those attrocities with this or that term will not bring back the victims and will not make the attrocities less painful for the nation. In Azerbiajan, we just quitely mark March 31st as a National Genocide Day, because we know what really happened to our friends, family members, our ancestors and directly to each one of us.

On the contrary, it is Armenians who so desperately try to get acceptance and recognition from everyone else. It is Armenians who seem so eager and so proud to get the term "Genocide" attached to the history of their nation. If it is so important to you what others say about you and if it is so important to you that everyone else feels sorry for your nation and recognizes your "genocide", then it is Armenians who should take their case to Hague or any other International Court. Go and settle your dispute according to the law, instead of constantly bringing up subjective stories of your grandmothers and grandfathers and trying to make others feel bad for you. In fact, you should take Turkish proposal to create an independent commission with foreign historians, lawyers and try to prove your argument in a civilized manner, instead of throwing around baseless accusations.

But it is understandable why your Diaspora and Armenian government rejected the Turkish proposal to do so 3 times in a row and are still rejecting the idea of independent commission. It is understandable why your nationalists are trying so hard to avoid leaving the history to expert historians and are trying so hard to push their side of the story through lawmakers and politicians. It's understandable, since it is much easier to blackmail and threaten politicians and various private organizations into accepting your side of the story with your votes and financial support.

If you need so much for other people to feel sorry for you, then you got at least me. If it makes you feel any better, I, personally, do feel sorry for you.

Azerbaijanis are kinda desparate.. they applied to the UN to name the killing genocide.. and whatever you say that that, i really wouldnt care. But my main point is, whenever there is a debate on genocide, not just the armenian,but any that happened and whenever there is a jew involved, why are they comparing it to the halacuast? it isnt like every person like hitler had the same intension of putting them in concentration camps or putting them in trains and shipping them away. The recent developments with the ADL shows that the jews and the israel government wants to move ahead saying that there wasnt and couldnt be any worse act of genocide than theirs..

FIRST, FROM MY VIEW AND FROM OTHERS AS WELL, THE TURKISH GOVERNMENT SAYING THAT THE RESOLUTION 106 WILL HARM THE RECONSILIATION PROCESS IS A TOTAL BULLSHIT.. THE TURKS KNOW THAT THE TIME IS COMING CLOSER AND CLOSER AND THAT ONE DAY IT WILL HIT THEM BEFORE THEY KNOW THEM. SECOND, THE ARMENIANS LIVING IN THE DIASPORA TRY AND SUCCEED TO RECOGNIZE THIS AS GENOCIDE IN OTHER COUNTRIES' GOVERNMENTS BECUASE THAT IS THE EXACT REASON MOST OF THEM ENDED UP LIVING IN OTHER COUNTRIES. THE ARMENIAN GOVERNMENT DOESNT SPEND A CENT TRYING TO BRING THIS TO MATTER. THE TURKISH GOVERNMENT, PROVED BY MEDIA BOTH INTERNATIONAL AND ARMENIAN, SPENDS MILLIONS TRYING TO CUT THIS RESOLUTION AND TRIES TO PAY PEOPLE OFF. NOT THERE IS A QUESTION TO IT AS TO Y? ALL THE TURKS KNOW THE ANSWER IN THEM. A COUNTRY THAT DOESNT EVEN LET ITS PEOPLE DEBATE THIS WITHOUT EVEN THE WORD SO-CALLED AND THREATENS TO PUT THEM IN JAIL, IN FACT A NOBLE WINNING AUTHOR, WHAT A FUCKING SHAME ON A COUNTRY THAT HOLDS ITSELF SO PROUD, FUCKING PROVED ITSELF TO BE A COUNTRY MADE OF A BRIANLESS PRIME MININSTER, THAT SOONER OR LATER, WE WILL SEE WHO WILL HAVE THE VICTORY. YOUR BOOKS ARE DIFFERENT THAN THOSE FROM THE MAJORITY OF THE WORLD. WHAT CONCERNS THE AZERI AND ARMENIAN DISPUTE, IT STARTED FROM THE POINT WHERE YOU KILLED ARMENIANS IN SUMGAYIT AND BAKU, AT NIGHT, JUST UP FROM THEIR SLEEP, AND HARMLESS, WHICH PROVES TO BE YOUR HEROIC ACT COMING FROM THE GUY WHO KILLED THE ARMENIAN SOLDIER WITH THE AX, THERE WERE SOME AZERIS THAT SAVED SOME ARMENIANS TOO. YOUR CASE WAS PUT IN UN IF IT CONSTITUTES GENOCIDE OR NOT. BUT IT SHOWS NO PROGRESS. AND YOU NEED TO KILL THE AZERI MEDIA BECUASE IT IS NOTHING LIKE DEMOCRACY, SHOWING THAT THE GOVERNMENT OWNED THE MEDIA TOO, BECAUSE ANYTHING THAT CONCERNS ARMENIA, WHETHER A HIT TO AZERIS AND TURKS, IS MISINTERPRETED AND IS DIRECTED TOWARD THE ARMENIANS AND IS ANTI-ARMENIAN. YOUR GOVERNMENT HAS MILLIONS OF REFUGEES AND INSTEAD OF DOING SOMETHING FOR THEM, THEY STILL LIVE IN WAGONS AND THE MONEY FROM THE OIL GOES EITHER UP THE AZERI PRESIDENT'S ASS OR TO THE ARMY. ITS POINTLESS TO START A WAR BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ONLY ENTER A WAR WITH ARMENIA, BUT OTHERS AS WELL.

I know, you always rely on Russian army and never fight your own battles. Armenia is a Russian forpost and that's a fact. So, you don't need to threaten anyone with "third parties", Azeris know it very well from the experience.

Trust me, Turkey doesn't not give a rat's ass who accepts what resolution because no matter who says what, Turks will never accept something that didn't happen. And don't start with your fairy tales about Armenians not spending money for their cause. Complete B.S. The government of Armenia doesn't need to spend anything because Armenian diaspora has more money than the whole population of Armenia. The diaspora is the ones who decides on Armenia's foreign policy. We've already seen how diaspora-backed nationalists massacred Armenian parliament members who were willing to give occupied territories back to Azerbaijan. Your diaspora does well in spending its money on pushing an Armenian propaganda through various channels: private organizations (financial "support") and politicians (voting power and financial "aid" for political campaigns). Please, don't B.S. anyone.

And conflict with Azerbaijan started with deportations of Azeris from Armenia and Karabakh in 1987-1988 and from killing of two Azeri youths by Karabakh Armenians (1988). All of the refugees who fled persecutions in Armenia and Karabakh settled in the Azerbaijani town of Sumgayit. Sumgayit events happened long after the expulsion and pogroms against Azeris. Besides, events in Sumgayit affected not only Armenians but Azeris as well. Six Azeris and 24 Armenians were killed by the same gang that was lead by an ARMENIAN ex-con, Grigorian. Besides, all of the gang members were arrested and convicted by the government. No one was convicted in Armenia for attrocities and deportations of Azeris from Armenian cities of Masis, Leninakan, Godiz (long before Sumgayit events). Not a single Armenian was convicted by Armenian government for Khojaly, Lachin and Kelbajar Genocides.

Speaking about media and government. You should first pay more attention to Armenian corrupted officials who are also war criminals and unbelievable racists. You should think of Armenian dictatorship and Armenian fascist media that is completely controlled by the government and ultra-nationalist diaspora and infuses hatred into Armenian public against everything Turkish and Azerbaijani. I have seen how your diaspora members bring little Armenian children to various protests and teach them to shout anti-Turkish slogans and show fingers and yell out obsene insults toward Turks and Azerbaijanis, calling them "stupid Mongols". Talk about brainwashing, hatred and racism.

Before accusing someone else's government, may be you should pay more attention to what kind of massacres going on in your own parliament and how poor your country is. Since the collapse of Soviet Union half of Armenia's population emmigrated somewhere else. May be it's because of all the "prosperity" and "democracy"? Pay attention to your own corruption, racism and degradation before you point fingers at others. At least Turkey has Armenian community with Armenian churches, Armenian newspapers, various cultural Armenian organizations and illigal Armenian workers who come to Turkey from ARMENIA to earn a living. Only recently a new Armenian church was opened in Turkey. Can you say the same about Turks or Azeris in Armenia? Oh, wait, I forgot, there is none of such in Armenia. Not a single Turk, not a single Azeri left in Armenia. Heck, the whole Armenia is 99% Armenian and other 1% consists of Russian troops.

As Armenian Prime Minister once said to a crowd of Armenian university students: "The greatest achievemnt of modern Armenia is not its independence but rather an Armenization of its territory". This quote from a high ranking government official says it all.

I beg every Armenian who comes here to ignore the Azeri psychobabble.  Its sole aim is to degrade a website or forum to such depths that everybody gets sick of both Armenians and Turks and the whole subject altogether. 

Jewcy is an awesome website, with funny, interesting, and thoughtful articles, which are usually followed by thoughtful or at least funny commentary.  As Armenians, let's do our part not to ruin that experience for everyone.  Let's not let every topic that has to do with Armenians turn into a boring you-said she-said with Azeris and/or Turks.  Thanks.

KK FIRST IT ISNT JUST THE RUSSIANS THAT STAND BY THE ARMENIANS, ITS FRANCE, GREECE, BASICALLY ALL THE COUNTRIES TURKS HATE AND AZERIS TO FOLLOW THEIR BIG SISTERS, DO IT TOO. AZERBAIJAN AND OTHER 3EX SOVIET UNION COUNTRIES TRY TO MAKE THIER OWN SHIT. BUT THATS NOT THE POINT OF THIS.. EVEN THOUGH ARMENIA HAS RUSSIA'S SUPPORT IN EVERYTHING, IT ISNT A BS THAT AZERBAIJAN WOULDNT BE ANYTHING WITOUT TURKEY AND THIER SUPPORT, BECAUSE WHATEVER ACTIONS AZERBAIJAN TAKES, IT MAKES SURE BIG SISTER IS K WITH IT. THE ONLY EXCEPTION I HAVE SEEN WOULD BE THE RECOGNITION OF THE N CYPRUS, OUT OF THE FEAR OF GREECE RECOGNIZING NAGORNO KARABAGH AS A REPUBLIC, BUT THATS YET.OOH, GREAT EXAMPLE. IF US RECOGNIZES HR106, AZERI-US RELATIONS WILL BE HARMED....WHAT THE FUCK DO AZERIS HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING THAT IS GOING ON BETWEEN ARMENIA AND TURKEY AND WAS BEFORE THAN AZERBAIJAN WAS ON THE MAP OR EVEN EXISTED??? 

IF TURKEY DIDNT GIVE A RATS ASS WHO RECOGNIZES THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE, WE WOULDNT HAVE THE TURK COMING HERE ON THE TALKS WITH THE IRAQ INCURSION AND ALSO KINDA PUTTING THE RESOLUTION IN HIS AGENDA.EVEN ARMENIAN PRIME MINISTER CAME TO US AND DIDNT TALK A WORD ABOUT THAT RESOLUTION WITH HIGH RANK OFFICIALS, MEANWHILE TURKISH PRIME MINISTER WENT ALL GETTING INTO HILARIOUS DETAILS THAT ARMENIANS WERE PAID TO BE DEPORTED.... A HILARIOUS LIE..SECOND, THE MONEY TURKEY WASTES FIGHTING THIS ISSUE AND BUYING POLITICIANS COULD ONLY BE FOR A WHILE. THE BIG SHOCK CAME TO TURKEY WHEN THE PEOPLE WHO OPPOSED THE RESOLUION DID SO OUT OF FEAR FOR TURKEY, NOT BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT IT DIDNT HAPPEN. THAT IS RIGHT THAT THE ECONOMY IS LOW IN ARMENIA BUT THE REASON IM GONNA ASK YOU AS TO Y IS THAT?? MAYBE AZER. NEEDS TURKEYS SUPPORT HERE.. TALK ABOUT SUPPORT...... SO YEA, THAT ANSWERS YOUR VIEW OF Y THE ARMENIANS LIVE IN BAD CONDITIONS, IS BECAUSE TURKEY AND AZER HAVE CLOSED THE BORDERS, EVEN THOUGH COMPARED TO AZERBAIJAN, THE ECONOMY IS ACTUALLY PUTTING EFFORT IN CREATING LIFE BETTER THAN SHOVING IT UP THE PRESIDENTS ASS OR THE ARMY. AND THOSE 2 COUNTIRES KEEP GETTING MORE BLOWS FOLLOWIN IRAN SIGNING MILIRATY COOPERATION AGREEMENT.. AND I THINK YOU ARE ABOUT TO LOSE THE SUPPORT OF TURKEY SINCE IT IS FACING AN INTERNATIONAL PRESSURE TO OPEN THE BORDERS, WHICH MEANS MORE PEOPLE KEEP BACKSTABING AZERBAIJAN AND TURKEY ITSELF.

NEXT, YEA ABOUT YOUR NATIONAL HERO WHO KILLED AN ARMENIAN.. WELL IT JUST SHOWS THAT A GUY KILLING SOMEONE COULD BE A HERO IF HE KILLS A PERSON THAT IS HATED BY THE ENTIRE NATION. EVEN AN INTERNATIONAL EYE WAS ON A CHESS PLAYER.. SAYING THAT ENEMY IS THE ENEMY, WE HATE THE ARMENIANS, BURNED OUT OF THE LOSS. SHOWS WHO IS DOING ANTI-ARMENIANISM AND THAT YOU LOSE YOUR OWN BATTLE BY YOUR ACTIONS. 

ABOUT THE PART OF THE LITTLE CHILDER, THAT IS A MATTER OF INDIVIDUAL OPINION, I DONT CARE WHO BRINGS, WHO AND WHAT THEY DO. BUT IF AN OLD ASS PERSON GOES TO RALLY  AGAINST TURKS, Y DONT BRING THE SMALL ONE AND LET THEM KNOW WHAT KINDA UNFORTUNATE HISTORY WE HAVE AND TO LET HIM KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. BEING CALLED MONGOL IS NOT BRAINWASHING,HAVE U READ A BOOK THAT SAYS MONGOL TURKS AND YOU PEOPLE CAME FROM THERE, BOTH TURKS AND AZERBAIJANIS, WELL THERE WAS NO AZERBAIJAN BACK THEN, LETS WAIT ANOTHER 600 YEARS....THERE IS RACISM WHICH COME FROM A CENTURY AGO AND I REALLY DONT THINK THAT IT COULD EVER BE CHANGED, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS, EVEN, AS THE PERSON IN THE BEGINNING SAID, DIASPORANS ARE MORE SOFTER TO TURKS THAN THE ARMENIANS LIVING IN ARMENIA.  THE ONES IN ARMENIA COULD CARE LESS IF IT IS RECOGNIZED OR NOT, BUT WE DO BECAUSE SOME OF US ENDED UP LIVING ELSEWHERE BECAUSE OF GENOCIDE....

NEXT, DONT U EVEN TALK ABOUT THE PARLIAMENT. BY TALKING ABOUT THAT YOU JUST SHOWED THAT U HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HAPPENED THERE AND THAT I MIGHT BE TALKING TO SOMEONE WHO IS ONE SIDED, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER AZERI OR TURK. THE PEOPLE WHO WANTED KARABAGH TO BE RETURNED INCLUDED LEVON TER PETROSYAN, WHO IS TRYING TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT AGAIN..."NOT GONNA HAPPEN",, LOL.. AND THE PEOPLE WHO GOT SHOT AND DIED THERE WERE PRO-KARABAGH REPUBLIC, AND VAZGEN SARGSYAN WAS ONE OF THE LEADERS IN THE WAR. SO DONT TALK ABOUT SOMETHING YOU HAVE NO FUCKIN IDEA ABOUT.. 

I DONT THINK THAT EVEN IF ARMENIA ALLOWED TURKS TO INVEST IN ARMENIA, THEY WOULD COME. BUT COMING  JUST FROM THE INDEPENDENCE, THE CORRUPTION CAME FROM THE VERY SAME PERSON THAT WANTED TO RETURN THE LANDS. HE MADE A WAR AND BACKED OUT AT THE END. MY GOVERNMENT MAY BE ERUPTED,  BUT IT IS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND NEAR YOUR GOVERNMENT, WHERE 14 YEARS LATER, PEOPLE STILL LIVE IN WAGONS, WHERE THEY AT LEAST COULD HAVE HAD SHELTERS, OR ARE YOU STILL WAITING TO RETURN TO YOUR LANDS.. I DONT THINK IT WILL EVER HAPPEN. KARABAGH BECOMING SISTER CITY AND OTHERS INVESTING IN IT SHOWS THAT YOU HAVE LOSE IT LONG AGO. 

MEDIA.. DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED... EN.APA.AZ...IF AN AZERI LOST TO AN ARMENIAN, IT WOULDNT STATE IT. BUT SAY AN ARMENIAN IS CHARGED WITH 2 DOLLARS, THEY WOULD SAY IT. IT IS THE WORST KINDA PRESS AND MEDIA YOU CAN HAVE. HAVE A PRESIDENT FOR A JACKASS WHO DOESNT KNOW ANYTHING BUT HOW TO THREATEN WHICH IS GONNA TAKE 294327498734 YEARS TO TAKE PLACE.. ARMENIA, A LANDLOCKED COUNTRY SHOWED THAT IT DOESNT NEED YOU AND WILL NEVER FALL INTO YOUR ARMS JUST FOR ECONOMY. Y DONT YOU TRY TO CONVINCE IRAN TO CLOSE BORDERS TOO...

AND WHAT CONCERNS TO THE CULTURE, THE TURKISH CULTURE IS BASED ON ARMENIAN, GREEK, AND PERSIAN MONUMENTS. THE FACT THAT IT TOOK HAGIA SOPHIA AND PUT FOUR STUPID POINTY ISLAMIC STUPID SHIT NEXT TO IT, SHOWS THAT TURKS DONT WANT TO HAVE ANYTHING THAT IS CHRISTIAN LOOKING IN THEIR TOURIST CITY, THE CONSTANTINOPLE, ALSO GREEK.. YEA, AKHTAMAR, THE CHURCH IT OPENED, BUT WHAT IS THE USE TO PUT THE THEIR FLAG OVER THE CHURCH WHERE IT IS ONLY THE PLACE OF THE CROSS TO BE THERE?? TURKS HATE ARMENIANS, AND SAME THE OTHER WAY. NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU AND YOUR PEOPLE ACCUSE US OF BEING "SEPARATISTS" AND WHATEVER, NOBODY CARES BECAUSE BY DOING ALL THAT YOU  LOSE YOUR OWN CAUSE.  

OH AND HAVING ONLY 2 BORDERS OPEN, IT SHOWED THAT IT CAN KEEP UP WITH YOU AND COMPARED TO THE ECONOMY, EVEN THOUGH IT IS CORRUPTED, IT ISNT AS MUCH AS YOURS.. THE ONLY KNOW CITY IN AZERBAIJAN IS BAKY.. THATS ALL. MAYBE IN THE OTHERS YOU HAVE ALL THESE PEOPLE THAT ARENT PROVIDED WITH LAND OR HOUSES. I DONT KNOW. I DONT CARE. 

AFTER READING ALL THIS, I DONT CARE WHAT YOU RESPOND, BECAUSE IT DOESNT MATTER. MY DAILY EXPERIANCE SHOWS WHAT SOME TURKS ARE CAPABLE OF AND MUCH MORE. YOUR PARLIAMENT FACTS WHICH SEEM REALLY FUNNY TO ME SHOWS THAT YOUR AN IGNORANT PERSON JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER AZERI OR TURK... WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER...

As I said above, let's be done with these idiotic debates.  If you need to have them, have them on Armenian or Turkish websites.  Let's keep Jewcy what it was before it was taken over by the lie-mongering Turks.

I came here because of the funny, pithy, intelligent comments...not to read some stupid debates about historical fact.  As I said, I will no longer be dragged into such foolishness here.  I too implore you to ignore the Turkish lies even though I know its hard to let rubbish stand unchallenged.

You guys are bunch of stupid racist armenians that are very desparate to save your face and are scared that everyone actually finds out what kind of inhumane attrocities were and are committed by your kind. But don't worry, it's only the beginning. We'll make sure that every single person finds out the truth and with your fascistic statements as answers to my posts, you are just making it easier for us to prove our point.

Is US still a supper power ? What will aks Turkey next for ?

http://news.independent.co.uk/fisk/article3146418.ece

Robert Fisk: Holocaust denial in the White House
The Turks say the Armenians died in a 'civil war', and Bush goes along with their lies
Published: 10 November 2007

How are the mighty fallen! President George Bush, the crusader king who would draw the sword against the forces of Darkness and Evil, he who said there was only "them or us", who would carry on, he claimed, an eternal conflict against "world terror" on our behalf; he turns out, well, to be a wimp. A clutch of Turkish generals and a multimillion-dollar public relations campaign on behalf of Turkish Holocaust deniers have transformed the lion into a lamb. No, not even a lamb – for this animal is, by its nature, a symbol of innocence – but into a household mouse, a little diminutive creature which, seen from afar, can even be confused with a rat. Am I going too far? I think not.

The "story so far" is familiar enough. In 1915, the Ottoman Turkish authorities carried out the systematic genocide of one and a half million Christian Armenians. There are photographs, diplomatic reports, original Ottoman documentation, the process of an entire post-First World War Ottoman trial, Winston Churchill and Lloyd George and a massive report by the British Foreign Office in 1915 and 1916 to prove that it is all true. Even movie film is now emerging – real archive footage taken by Western military cameramen in the First World War – to show that the first Holocaust of the 20th century, perpetrated in front of German officers who would later perfect its methods in their extermination of six million Jews, was as real as its pitifully few Armenian survivors still claim.

But the Turks won't let us say this. They have blackmailed the Western powers – including our own British Government, and now even the US – to kowtow to their shameless denials. These (and I weary that we must repeat them, because every news agency and government does just that through fear of Ankara's fury) include the canard that the Armenians died in a "civil war", that they were anyway collaborating with Turkey's Russian enemies, that fewer Armenians were killed than have been claimed, that as many Turkish Muslims were murdered as Armenians.

And now President Bush and the United States Congress have gone along with these lies. There was, briefly, a historic moment for Bush to walk tall after the US House Foreign Relations Committee voted last month to condemn the mass slaughter of Armenians as an act of genocide. Ancient Armenian-American survivors gathered at a House panel to listen to the debate. But as soon as Turkey's fossilised generals started to threaten Bush, I knew he would give in.

Listen, first, to General Yasar Buyukanit, chief of the Turkish armed forces, in an interview with the newspaper Milliyet. The passage of the House resolution, he whinged, was "sad and sorrowful" in view of the "strong links" Turkey maintained with its Nato partners. And if this resolution was passed by the full House of Representatives, then "our military relations with the US would never be as they were in the past... The US, in that respect, has shot itself in the foot".

Now listen to Mr Bush as he snaps to attention before the Turkish general staff. "We all deeply regret the tragic suffering (sic) of the Armenian people... But this resolution is not the right response to these historic mass killings. Its passage would do great harm to our relations with a key ally in Nato and in the global war on terror." I loved the last bit about the "global war on terror". Nobody – save for the Jews of Europe – has suffered "terror" more than the benighted Armenians of Turkey in 1915. But that Nato should matter more than the integrity of history – that Nato might one day prove to be so important that the Bushes of this world may have to equivocate over the Jewish Holocaust to placate a militarily resurgent Germany – beggars belief.

Among those men who should hold their heads in shame are those who claim they are winning the war in Iraq. They include the increasingly disoriented General David Petraeus, US commander in Iraq, and the increasingly delusional US ambassador to Baghdad, Ryan Crocker, both of whom warned that full passage of the Armenian genocide bill would "harm the war effort in Iraq". And make no mistake, there are big bucks behind this disgusting piece of Holocaust denial.

Former Representative Robert L Livingston, a Louisiana Republican, has already picked up $12m from the Turks for his company, the Livingston Group, for two previously successful attempts to pervert the cause of moral justice and smother genocide congressional resolutions. He personally escorted Turkish officials to Capitol Hill to threaten US congressmen. They got the point. If the resolution went ahead, Turkey would bar US access to the Incirlik airbase through which passed much of the 70 per cent of American air supplies to Iraq which transit Turkey.

In the real world, this is called blackmail – which was why Bush was bound to cave in. Defence Secretary Robert Gates was even more pusillanimous – although he obviously cared nothing for the details of history. Petraeus and Crocker, he said, "believe clearly that access to the airfields and to the roads and so on in Turkey would be very much put at risk if this resolution passes...".

How terrible an irony did Gates utter. For it is these very "roads and so on" down which walked the hundreds of thousands of Armenians on their 1915 death marches. Many were forced aboard cattle trains which took them to their deaths. One of the railway lines on which they travelled ran due east of Adana – a great collection point for the doomed Christians of western Armenia – and the first station on the line was called Incirlik, the very same Incirlik which now houses the huge airbase that Mr Bush is so frightened of losing.

Had the genocide that Bush refuses to acknowledge not taken place – as the Turks claim – the Americans would be asking the Armenians for permission to use Incirlik. There is still alive – in Sussex if anyone cares to see her – an ageing Armenian survivor from that region who recalls the Ottoman Turkish gendarmes setting fire to a pile of living Armenian babies on the road close to Adana. These are the same "roads and so on" that so concern the gutless Mr Gates.

But fear not. If Turkey has frightened the boots off Bush, he's still ready to rattle the cage of the all-powerful Persians. People should be interested in preventing Iran from acquiring the knowledge to make nuclear weapons if they're "interested in preventing World War Three", Bush has warned us. What piffle. Bush can't even summon up the courage to tell the truth about World War One.

Who would have thought that the leader of the Western world – he who would protect us against "world terror" – would turn out to be the David Irving of the White House?

Azeri Jews outraged

In a joint statement released for the occasion by the leaders of major Jewish organizations in Azerbaijan, the Armenian effort
to portray the Armenians as innocent victims was lambasted.

"The Jewish communities of Azerbaijan are appealing to you concerning the tragic date in the fate of our country, the genocide
of the Azerbaijani people, which was committed by gangs of the Armenian nationalists headed by the Armenian
Revolutionary-Federation Dashnaktsutyun in 1918," said the statement signed by S.B. Ikhiilov, Chairman of the mountainous
Jewish community; M.B. Bekker, Chairman of the European Jewish community; and M.Sh. Palagashvili, Chairman of the Georgian
Jewish community.

"What they failed to complete to the end in the past, Armenians leaders are trying to finish today. The goal is the same: to
occupy new lands and to expel millions of Azerbaijanis from their lands," the Jewish leaders said in their statement published
on March 31st in the Baku (Russian language) periodical Bakinskiy Rabochiy.

"Going through the entire century, the bloody train of the genocide of 1918 entered the 21st century. It is no coincidence
that the dirty palaver around the so-called genocide of Armenians is constantly puffed up in parliaments of some countries of
western Europe aiming to conceal the tragedy of the Azerbaijani people and forget their victims and the continuous occupation
of 20 per cent of the territory of a sovereign country."

"Like our entire nation, the Jewish community of Azerbaijan knows what a genocide is. Today we are mourning for the victims of
the Azerbaijani people, because only by uniting the efforts of all people of goodwill, will peoples will be able to oppose
nationalistic insanity, with which some countries and people are still gripped," the Jewish leaders concluded.

Bishop Aleksandr of Baku and the Caspian also issued a statement entitled "Statement of the Bishop of Baku and the Caspian" on
the day of national mourning 31st March, paying respect to the Azeri victims of Armenian aggression.

"The news of AC of Azerb. SSR. The series of history, philosophy and law ". Baku, 1989, # 3.

THE REPORT

by special committee of investigation's member Mikhailov on investigation by him of Muslim villages and Javanshir, Shusha, Jebrail and Zangezur uyezds of Ganja province, suffered from massacres and other violent actions by the Armenian side

This report ascertains among the other things that 4 uyezds of Karabakh differ from other uyezds of Azerbaijani Republic harshly in tested disasters. With the collapse of Baku in October 1918 year, the Muslim population of Baku province is recovering from horrors caused by Armenians because of tribal abhorrence. The Muslims of Karabakh are exposed the every possible violence continuously both by native Armenians of Karabakh and Armenian refugees of Irevan province and by the Armenian soldiers invaded from Turkey' s vilayets demanding from Muslims to submit to the state authorities of Armenian Republic.

Javanshir uyezd

By the readings of questioned eye-witnesses and official documents in the affairs of Javanshir Uyezd Police Administration (the documents are attached to the paperwork in notarized copies) are ascertained the following standing to the considering matter. Long before the end of war by Russia, the Armenian soldiers deserted from fronts numerously bringing to their villages a lot of rifles, machine-guns and other ammunition stolen at the war. The native Armenian intelligentsia and the representatives of Armenian Rural Societies from the one side and the inactivity of Russian Police authority from the other side have contributed to that criminal occurrence. The Muslims of uyezd being very trustful to their historical neighbors have not assumed that the bringing weapons had been preparing against them, that is why they did not take any measures to prevent the conveyance of weapons although there were some cases of weapon' s detention by the Muslims in the station of Yevlakh and in the village Barda at the main road.

From the time of coup d' etat in Russia the undisguised conveyance of weapons into Armenian villages become more rapid and from the same time the Armenians began to display their hostile attitudes and violent actions against Muslims obviously. It is necessary to note the territorial peculiarity of Muslim villages' s habitation of uyezd. The most Muslim villages are disposed but the villages of Kelanin and Avrayan rural societies are disposed: the first in foothills and the second in mountain streak of Jevanshir uyezd. 12 villages of Kelanin society 1) Damirlar, 2) Imrat-Gerravend , 3) Charectar, 4) Umudlu, 5) Karalar, 6) Shirhavend, 7) Sirhavehd, 8) Brudj, 9) Ali-Agali, 10) Hachin-Dorbatlu, 11) Chirahly, 12) Gadji are surrounded by Armenian villages from all sides as Maragaly, Talish, Upper and Lower Chaily, Lulasar, Agdara, Ulu-Karabek, Small-Karabek, Charlamy, Gasariz, Vankt, Dovshanlu, Damgali, Keladag and others. So Kelanians-Muslims could deal with lowland of the uyezd only passing through Armenian villages. As regards the villages of Avrayan rural society they dispose in very high mountains higher than Armenian villages and taking the dominated stand living by isolated life and are settled by manly Kurdish tribe. That is why the all villages of Kelanin society did not suffer at all that time.

Returning to the Armenian aggression against Muslim population, we can ascertain by the evidences of eye-witnesses that the Armerian armed bands had a success only in their own district where they felt substantial numeral superiority in force and organization and where the unarmed Muslims were surrounded by Armenian villages and could not get any aid.

Thus only the villages of Kelanin Society have been broken in the whole Javanshir uyezd.

Starting with December 1917 year the Armenian armed bands began to trespass the villages of aforesaid Muslim society demanding from Kelanians to submit to Armenian Republic, imposing and levying considerable money amounts from Muslims under the pretence of tax for their state. They also have demanded to nourish their troops during months and put into practice the drunk orgies with the rapes of women in Muslim villages. The partial stealing of Muslim' s cattle has begun.

They were cut off contacts with the Muslims of uyezd' s lowland.

The Muslim National Committee of Javanshir uyezd has tried their best to establish the former good relations with Armenians wishing to take out the desperate plight of Kelanin Society' s population. Toward this end they have sent mixed, peaceful delegations to Armenian villages and elaborated a plan of transmigration of some Armenian villages living in lowland as Sarov, Gasan-Kaya and other to the mountain district but the residents of Kelanin society from the foothills to the lowland.

While the Armenians of lowland' s villages were transmigrating to the mountains without any problems, the population of Kelanin Society continued to stifle in the clutches of Armenian tyranny and massacre who did not allow the Kelanians to transmigrate to the lowland. The transmigration of Armenians and detention of foothills Muslims were not an aim to save Armenians from the possible danger but it had for an object to strengthen the armed forces of Armenians of foothills in order to destroy all Muslims of that district.

Such a slave life of Muslim population of named society had been continuing for a long months up to December 1918 year when the Muslims drawn to despair decided to burst through the ring of Armenians bands and transmigrate to the Muslim villages of lowland. They succeeded in doing it but there were a lot of losses among the Muslims.

The Muslims-refugees have lost all their personal property, agricultural inventory, cattle, houses. Many women and children died because of starvation, cold and diseases and other privations during the flight.

Many refugees have been killed by Armenians pursued them on the way, the others as ill, old men and women and cripples who could not run were killed in the villages.

Some villages as Imarat-Gerravend , the part of Umudlu with a view to avoid the pursuit of Armenians had chosen the way of flight through the high and snow mountain " Murov-Dag " on the Dzegam road of Elizavetpol uyezd and so they felt more excruciating sufferings before they reached lowlands of Javanshir uyezd.

At the present time the residents-refugees of pointed Rural Society settled the different villages of Javanshir lowland as Begum Saro, Seysulan, Jarimdji, Ilshihlar, Boy-Ahmedly, Kahil-Karvend of Shusha uyezd and others. They can' t be occupied with the peasant work because they lost all their agricultural inventory. Despite the peaceful delegations of Muslim National Committee to Armenian villages it could not reach the reconciliation with Armenians. Quite the contrary, some times the Armenians threatened the delegations. So the chairman of Maragaln Armenian rural society Nerses Manukov threatened the chairman of National Muslim Committee Meshali-Alish Ismailov said him " It all still are nonsense. Wait a little what will be soon with Azerbaijanis ".

The Muslim population of Javanshir uyezd's lowland also suffered from violent acts of Armenians in spring and summer of 1918 year when Armenians blocked up the waters of rivulets of Terter water basin leaving the residents of lowland without drinkable water and depriving the opportunity to water the fields and gardens. The water mills have also stopped working. Meanwhile the water in Javanshir in the Summer is the main resource of life. Adding to it that the Muslims and their cattle were deprived an opportunity to migrate to their pastures-eylags for cattle' s forage, that all the ways to Susha were blocked up by Armenians for a long time and the all population of lowland were alarmed anxious we can imagine the tragic situation of Muslims.

The Muslims are in a painful situation because Armenian population does not recognize the authorities of Azerbaijani Republic and considers the part of Javanshir uyezd populated by Armenians as the territory of Armenian Republic. Even at the present time they continues violent actions against Azerbaijanis, so during the visit of members of Special Committee of Investigation the Javanshir uyezd, the Armenians drawn the cattle of Javad-Ali ogly, the resident of Damirlar village and kidnapped two Muslim boys near Maragly village. The last circumstances deprived the Members of the Committee of Investigation the opportunity to review the smashed up Muslim villages of foothills in order not to risk by possible deprivation of Committee' s freedom, businesses and documents as since it was necessary for local surveys to pass through Armenian villages.

Meanwhile at the present time Armenians personally pass through Muslim villages in the lowland of uyezd, appear at the Terter market every week and not only continue the trade relations with Azerbaijanis but also continue to resort to the criminal actions selling the stolen cattle to the Muslims stolen from them ( see the evidences of eye-witness Iskenderov ).

Besides the devastation of 12th villages of Kelanin rural society, the Armenian bands committed the following crimes against Muslims in Javanshir uyezd. So, 1) the Armenians of Maragly killed two Muslim residents of the village Magomed-Iskender ogly and Myuslim Ragim ogly thrown their corpses into the " Dash-Arkh " ditch; 2) At Funduhlu district the Armenians-Dovshanlians killed rural delivery man Fagrad-Jafar Kulu ogly and two of his Muslim companions robbed from the latter 4 bulls; 3) the Armenians of Sarov committed predatory attack to the herders and herds of Brudg village and opened the skirmish drawn the cattle to the Armenian village Chayly; 4) the gang of armed Armenians-Agdarians drawn 600 sheep and 50 herds horned cattle from the Muslims of Kapanlu village; 5) the same gang drawn 250 sheep and 61 heads of horned cattle from the other Kapanlunians; 6) the Armenians of Agdara drawn 1350 sheep and 4 horses from Jumshud, the resident of the village Karapirum; 7) the Armenians of Dovshanly killed in the village Karakor Odjag-Molla Kambar ogly, his wife Sona Shahmamed kizy and Eyvaz Molla Novruz ogly; 8) the band of Gulyatagian Armenians drawn 122 heads of horned cattle from Sirhavendians and 105 heads from Kalaychilarians; 9) the gang of Agdamirian Armenians had tried to drive a cattle of Kapanlu village' s residents and as a result of started skirmish Kurban Allahverdi ogly was killed. 10) at " Chohlu-Dakirman " district the gang of Armenian soldiers and rural residents, 500 in number attacked the caravan of Koturlians and robbed their horses, bulls, money, household things and goods of total sum of more than ? million rubles; 11) at the land of landowner Nuribekov the Armenians of Agdara robbed the cattle of Imrat-Gerravendians; 12) the armed gang of Armenians drown 115 heads of cattle from the resident of Chirahlu Iskander Ali at the place " Sendral-Yeri " at that the Persian herder Novruz was killed: 13) the gang of Armenians of Agdara attacked and killed the resident of village Papravend Asrat-Aga-Kishi ogly at the place " Ozok-Yeri " driven 12 sheep. 14) the Armenians had enticed the resident of Papravend Alband-Sadyh ogly into their village Agdara supposedly for the selling of sheep and killed him. This murder has happened in the present year in January 19. 15) the gang of Armenians of Agdara have driven 84 heads of cattle and horses from the residents of the village Kalaychilor: 16) the same Armenians begun the skirmish have driven 3 horses and 1350 sheep from the residents of Karapirum.

From the fore-going short list of some crimes of Armenians is detected that they tried to undermine the economy of Muslim peasants driving the cattle and horses mainly.

Committing the numerous murders of uyezd' s residents, not sparing neither the sex nor the age and children, old men and invalids, the Armenians in the following cases have executed the murders painfully and brutally.

So, Suleyman-Kazakhaslan ogly, Mamed Meshali Pasha ogly and Kazum Atam ogly have been killed and cut up to pieces.

The dead body of woman of the village Gadji-Gerravend Zeynay Shirin kizy was found with cut off bursts. According to Armenian Zakhari Kukurov from Bomgukain, the resident of Korakor village of Dovshanlu' s department Ramazan Novruz Ali ogly, the woman Kuncha-Odjag Kuli kizy and the invalid Suleyman Gasan ogly have been killed but their dead bodies have been cremated.

The resident of the village Sirhavend Bollu Kaza Soltal Ali Iman oglu had been arrested near the village Kayanchi and then he was killed and cremated.

The residents of Gune Gaza Sirhavend Sharif Ismail oglz and Rajab Novruy Ali oglz have been found with cut off and removed heads.

Among the Armenians and the leaders of Armenian bands as was obvious from the evidences of eye-witnesses, the Muslims have recognized many of them, but only the persons with full names and surnames will be enumareted here. Namely: an engineer-landowner of the estate Upper Karkhun, Konstantant Nicitich Abrumov, the manager of estate Avan Juzbashev Bagrat bek Melik Shakhanazarov, the Chairman of Margaly Rural Society Nerses Manukov, the resident of the village Gulyatag Ivan bek Mirzabekov, from the village Dovshanly Artemiy and Muki Sukiasovs, Yefrem, Nikolay Shakhbagovs, from the village Bozorkend Nikolay Sarukhanov, from the village Vank Tigran Asan Jalilov, from the village Domgali Tsachur Mosesov, from the village Lulyasas Vagon Bejanov, the residents of Upper and Low Chayli Shamir Agabekov, Setrak Usubov, from the village Talishi Tuni Atambekov, the resident of the village Agdara Karapet Anastasov, of the village Talishi the brothers Isaak, Minas Ter Daniyelovs, of the same village Rustam Babayev, of the village Gasanriz Sukias Gandaskhazov, from Chardakhli Bakhshi Ovanesov, from the village Upper Chayli Akonjan Mosesov, Nikolay Sogratov, Agdarians Markos bek Ter Astsachurov, from the village Margoshevan Atakishi Khachaturov. Many other persons have been named by eye witnesses in names only. The enumerated Armenians were not only the leaders of bands, but they have been committing the murders and turtores of Muslims with their own hands.

It can be detected in acts about losses produced by the victims that the Muslims of only foothills of uyezd have incured losses in some tens of millions rubles.

Jabrail uyezd

The Jabrail uyezd consist if 12 Muslim and 3 Armenian rural societies.

This uyezd like Javanshir uyezd has suffered from Armenians exceptionally in foothills of Karabakh mountains because of topographic location in the large part of lowland where the villages with Muslim population were placed exclusively and the Armenians have not been deciding to invade there dreading to be repulsed.

By the evidences of questioned eye-witnesses are ascertained that the Muslims both landowners and peasants of foothills till the December 1918 being reassured by the Armenians of neighbour villages of uyezd and their honorary representativies not only were about any defence but also not supposed that Armenians were preparing to smush their villages, although they had heard about the destructions of Tatarian villages and the violences and brutalities of Armenians committed against Muslim population in other uyezds of Karabakh.

In the first days of December 1918, the Armenians assumed the armed offensive against Muslims of uyezd, began to commit the separate murders of Muslims, drive the cattle and attack theTatarian villages by the organized bands. Nevertheless as is obvious from the evidences of eye-witnesses and from the report # 84 of the Chife of Jabrail Uyezd from February 17, 1919 for the Karabakh General-Gubernator, " the Muslim population of uyezd meeting such events with deep regret and not resorting to any active actions took only the defensive position for the defence of themselves and their property from the attack of Armenians, not commiting any irregular actions against Armenians, as proof of it served the circumstance, that no Armenian village has suffered ".

The below is given the crimes of Armenians committed against Muslims till the present time: 1) the Armenians of the villages Duducchi, Agbulah, Edillu, Goga, Chirakuz, Ahullu on the night of December 26, 1918 smashed up the Muslim part of the village Duducchi, burned homes and robbed the property; 2) the Armenians of the same village drown the sheep of the residents of the village Arysh on December 7, 1918; 3) the armed Armenians attacked the village Karakellu and drown sheep on December 5, 1928; 4) on December 10, the sheep of Mageram musa ogly from the village Dishulin were driven; 5) at the same day the armed Armenians drown the cattle of Mir Jusuf Mir Gasan ogly from the village Efendilar; 6) the armed band of Armenians burned the village Ashik Meliklu, robbed the property,residents and cattle on December 2; 7) at the same day the bands of Armenians burned the village Holaflu, Tatar, Shihlar, robbed the property of the residents, drown a part of cattle; 8) on December 18 the village Siric was smashed up and burned; 9) The Armenians of the villages Agjakend, Delenlar and Mulkadari attacked the village Siric and burned its department Nusaslu on February 27, 1919; 10) the Armenians of Ahilli, Avetis and Nerses Babayevs wounded Ibad Mamish ogly of the same village plowing up the land strip on March 29, 1919; 11) in August of 1919 during the descent of nomads of the village Karvend the Armenians drown all cattle of the residents of the village, robbed property and killed two herders; 12) the armed Armenians drown sheep of the residents of the village Karadagly, Molla Nabiya Gaji Mahmud Efendi ogly and Eyvaz Megraly ogly in January of 1919; 13) the armed band of Armenians robbed the carrier and the resident of the village Zargar, Badir Khan Mamish ogly in Spring of 1918; 14) in Autumn of 1918, the Armenians of the village Gadrut Mukhan and the village Noromanic, Sergay Nikolyantse and Sergay Lal ogly robbed and killed the residents of the village Boliant, Jafar Alekper ogly and Nasir Magerram ogly, the dead bodies of whom were founded naked in the ravine; 15) in Winter of 1918, the Armenians of the villages Jilano and Mulkadari atacked the village Eyvazlu plundered the property and drown the cattle of the village at that killed Guseyn Allahverdi ogly; 16) at the same time the Armenians of the village Dolanlar smushed up and burned up the village Shikhlar robbed the property drown the cattle; 17) the Armenians of Mulkadarli have smushed up the village Melukli, burned up the houses, robbed the property and drown the cattle.

The destruction of the villages has been accompanying by the murders and wounding of Muslims, so there have been killed 3 men, 3 women , a child and wounded a man in the village Ahillu, a man has been killed in Evatlu, wounded a man in Tartar, 6 men killed in Mazra and in Siric 11 men, 10 women, 14 children have been killed, 2 men wounded.

The Muslims identified many of Armenians who had attacked the villages but we will give you the list of Armenians with the full names and surnames: Namely: the residents of Duducchi Balasan Ayrapetov, Arutyun Logmatov, Karapet Oganjanov, Ivan Beglarov, Usub Khachiyev, Ovakim Barkhudarov, Sarkis Mirzoyev, the residents of the village Kemrakuch - Sumbat Mirzoyev, ensign Aslan Sarkisov, Avetis Petrosov, Nikolay Bakhdiyev, Aleksan Seyranov, the residents of the village Edinlu - Bakhshi Aganjanov, Gerasim Mirzoyev, Bakhshi Pakhapetov, Moses Kagramanov, the residents of the village Chirakuz of Shusha uyezd, Khurshud bek, Markar bek, Ishkhan bek and Sumbat bek Ishkhanovs, from the village Goga - Muki Safarov, Savad Ter-Grigorov, Sarkis Kekuns, David Oganjanov, the residents of Chanakhchi of Shusha uyezd Sokrat bek Melik Shakhnazarov, the first sergeant Markez, the residents of Mulkadar - Mukhan Martirosov, Nikolay Petrosov, Ovshar and Tigran Pogosovs, the residents of Dolanlar Jalal Javadov, Oganjan Mirzajanov, Aga Sarkis Martirosov, Karakhan Javadov, Logos and Arshak Avanesovs. Mukhan and Javad Oganjanovs, Ivan Arzusanov, from the village Dashbashi Bakhchi and Natur Stepanyantsis, Mukham and Simon Nisyantsis, Ovanes and Akopjan Karabekovs, from Zamzur - Mukhan Mikirgachev, Aleksandr Melkumov, Ovanes Mosesyants, from the village Agjakend Gevond and Tatevos Mikayelovts, Gayk and Tigran Akopjanovs, Mirza Ovanesov, Ishkhan Sarkisjanov, from Jilan Markar Kazarov, Ovshar Musiyev.

By the declarations and acts about losses of landowners and peasants we can reveal that the Muslims of Jabrail uyezd have incured losses in some tens of millions rubles. The drive of cattle, robbing of property, agricultural tools, the supply of bread grain and other things have undermined the economical status of uyezd's Muslim peasants and their ability to pay.

Zangezur uyezd

This uyezd is still under trying conditions because of massacres inflicted by the Armenians against Muslims.

The uyezd is placed in mountain country, so it cut off from the side of Shusha uyezd quite and from Jabrail almost. The Armenians making use of solitary location of the Muslim villages among the Armenian villages and feeling the power of their majority have taken the ruling position there.

The situation of uyezd' s Muslims comparing with the other provinces of Azerbaijan has become worse because of armed bands of Armenian peasants and organized military units of Armenian soldiers under the command of general Andronic. The latter having the considerable fighting force of soldiers and armed Armenian peasants invading the territory of Azerbaijan and obviously having the precise directions of the Government of the Armenian Republic has demanded the Muslim population either to subordinate to the authorities of Armenia or clean the territory of uyezd in order to annex it to Armenian Republic. Although the Muslims of uyezd cut off in their villages from the all world not having any protection and help and armed very poorly have not wished to subdue to the demands of Armenians. The latter have showed their monstrous brutality. Aspiring to expand the territories of their Republic, the Armenians had not been sparing the Muslims even in the cases when the latter have been leaving their native hearths. The Armenians have been burning up, destroying the villages, killing the residents, driving the cattle and robbing the property. At the present time only the residents of the village of Okhchin ravine continues the courageous defence of their native hearths.

The Muslim villages of the 1st police office of Sisian magal completely, the large part of 2nd office, the significant parts of 3rd, 4th and 5th offices have been destroyed. Some of the villages have been razed to the ground and Armenians even began to plow up that lands. About 50000 Muslims refugees have settled in the 4th office of uyezd and in Jabrail uyezd.

By the evidences of eye-witnesses and official documents 115 villages of uyezd have been demolished and destroyed: 1) Aguli, 2) Darabas, 3) Dulus, 4) Kurtlar, 5) Sheki, 6) Urut, 7) Vagudy, 8) Irmis, 9) Bakhrilu, 10) Kizildjic, 11) Darakend, 12) Karakilisa, 13) Melyukli, 14) Dortny, 15) Dovruz, 16) Karadiga, 17) Okhtar, 18) Chobanlu, 19) Kadyulu, 20) Chullu, 21) Shabadin, 22) Almaluh, 23) Chanakhchi, 24) Jibulu, 25) Agkend, 26) Turapkhanlu, 27) Gulud, 28) Bekdash, 29) Injevar, 30) Siznak, 31) Karachiman, 32) Katar, 33) Seydlar, 34) Khalaj, 35) Dashnov, 36) Baydag, 37) Norashenic, 38) Jimjilu, 39) Gyagalu, 40) Gomarat, 41) Darzili, 42) Kazanshi, 43) Shayuplu, 44) Tagamir, 45) Tey, 46) Atkis, 47) Sharikan, 48) Dolutlu, 49) Avganlu, 50) Tanzever, 51) Madj, 52) 1st Khojagan, 53) Emizlu, 54) Bugakar, 55) Mulk, 56) Banavshapyush, 57) 1st Vartanazur, 58) 2nd Vartanazur, 59) Legvaz, 60) Alidara, 61) Marzigit, 62) Tugut, 63) Pushanlu, 64) Razidara, 65) Mamed Ismail, 66) Guman-Dadanlu, 67) Tatarkend, 68) Kelu-Kishlag, 69) Zamlar, 70) Askerlar, 71) Garagel, 72) Chukhur-Yurt, 73) Najaflar, 74) Garakelu, 75) Shaiflu, 76) 1st Gyagelu, 77) 2nd Gyagelu, 78) Burunlu, 79) Burjalilar, 80) Gun-Gishlag, 81) Janbar, 82) Khinirdakishilar, 83) Tuafshalu, 84) Shirican, 85) Gazanshi, 86)Gemaran, 87) Kotanan, 88) khotakhan, 89) Okhtarlu, 90) Khudayarlu, 91) Shakarlu, 92) Kilinchlu, 93) Tarnalu, 94) Nuvadi, 95) Tugun, 96) Bogarlu, 97) Sanalu, 98) Safi-Yurd, 99) Kyurgilu, 100) Chatarist, 101) Privaslu, 102) Meshali Ismaillar, 103) Burjalar-Darzili, 104) Subuklu, 105) Mazmazak, 106) Tazarkyurdali, 107) Farajan, 108) Suarasy, 109) Bayramushagi, 110) Kokhnakend, 111) Kyushlag, 112) Zabuh, 113) Baylandur, 114) Bagarbeklu, 115) Keravis-Abdallar.

Here it is the list of main more or less important villages of the uyezd destroyed and burned up by Armenians completely or partly. After it the Armenians have destroyed also 10 villages not having the independent names and consisting of from 2 to 5 houses, living in temporary underground lodgments.

The enumerated above villages have been burned up, the property of the residents have been robbed, the cattle driven. At the present time the territories are occupied by Armenians and the Muslims have not access there.

It is impossible to give all crimes committed by Armenians against Muslims in every villages in this short report. All facts of brutalities, murders and victims in all villages are expounded in the affair of the inspection of the uyezd and in enclosed acts and documents to it. It is also will be given the prominent cases of brutality, committed by Armenians against peaceful Muslim population.

There have been killed 3257 men, 2276 women and 2196 children, wondered 1060 men, 794 women and 485 children in enumerated villages, totally 10068 Muslim people have been killed and wondered in all uyezd. But this terrible passional of Armenian atrocities does not answer the reality because during the panic flight of Muslims many victims remained uncertain. So the figures of victims were more than official statistics.

By the evidences of eye-witnesses are ascertained the following prominent cases of atrocities committed by the Armenians. So 1) in the same village Bagudy 15 beautiful girls dispensed among the Armenian soldiers not taking the sorrow of rape have died. 2) in the same village when 400 Muslims looking for the shelter during the destruction of the village had gathered in the mosque, the Armenians barricaded the exits of the mosque and burned up the mosque with all people inside. 3) in the same village the Muslim woman Kadama Tair kizi has been knifed, her cut off burst has been put into the mouth of her cut off infant in arms. 4) in the same village the Armenians killed Yolchi Shikh Guseyn ogly have cut off his genitals and put into his mouth. 5) in the same village young girls Nissa-Aman kizi, Ajab-Nukhbali kizi, Sona Jafar kizi and Shakhnuli Jalal kizi have been raped till the death. 6) near the same village Gulmasta Gasim kizi has been killed, her bursts have been cut off and the horseshoe has been hammered into her spinal column. 7) the Armenians have thrusted a bayonet into hundred age old Asad bek Melik Abbasov' s body, lying without any movement on the bed in the village Newvedi. 8) in the same village the Armenians have been chopping off the heads of escaping women and children, 9) in the village Sheki the women with cut off bursts and the cut up dead bodies of small children have been lying in the streets, 10) in the village Irmishli during the destruction the Armenians have been lifting the infants in arms on the bayonets, 11) in the village Agudi the Armenians have been demanding from Muslims to adopt Christianity, cutting off the bursts of women and putting them into the month of babies, 12) in the village Agudi the Armenians had chopped the extremities of legs of alive Gulam-Apiy Shakar ogly and then by the pricks of bayonets and lash compelled him to go on the legs until he died because of the loss of blood, 13) in the same village all beautiful girls have been raped and killed, 14) in the village Chullu the Armenians have killed 9 bed-patient by the daggers, 15) in the village Bagirbeklu the Armenians have gathered 7 men and a woman into a house and burned them alive along with house, 16) in the village Musulmanlar the dead bodies had been so disfigured that it was impossible to recognized the people - without arms, legs and heads, 17) in the village Katar the honorary old-man Meshadi Kalantar Meshadi Gulu ogli has been killed, wetted by the kerosene and burned, 18) in the same village the Armenians have tied hand and foot of Kerbalay Allakhverdi Guseyn Ali ogli and cut off his throat, 19) in the village 1st Vartanazur especially many women and children have been cut off, 20) in the village Rakhman-Efendi of Newboyazet uyezd of Irevan province the Armenian have put out Ibragim Gadji Guseyn ogly' s eyes and then burned him.

This is the short and not complete list of the sufferings of the Muslim population in uyezd. The cases of brutal murders, tortures and the rapes of women are so many that it is impossible to list all of them in the report. The eye-witnesses certify that the crimes happened in all smashed up villages.

The overwhelming number of villages have been destructed during the raids of General Andronic who demanded from Muslims to submit to the authorities of Armenia. The events were happening in Summer and Autumn of 1918.

Among the attacking Armenians the Muslims have recognized many of them. But below we will give you the list of Armenians the most frequently named by eye-witnesses.

Namely: the residents of the town Gorus Nikolay Osinov, Simon Mirumov, from the village Daraba - Shamir Shakhnazarov, from the village Migri - David Arshak, Matvesov Vachiantsis, the resident of the village Kovar Amazasp, from the village Gyalyur Agabek Medic Oganjanov, from the village Astazur the ensign Agabek Mudusi Latvakanov, Nikolay Barsamov, runaway convict Armenian under the nickname " Yapon ", Ostazurian priest Ter-David, the residents of Darabas David and Kaspar Keshihevs, from the village Akhlatian Ovakim Govorkov and Yagub Arustamov, the residents of the village Kaladji Ivan Martirosov, Manuchar Pogosov, Agalo Aganjanov, from Dulus Nepogos Kapriyelov, Sarkisdjan Tevosov, from Darabas - Stepan Pogosov, Aleksandr Kukiyev, from Sirkatas Misrop Kuniyev, Yefrem Rustamov, from the village Kuris Lalazar and Garib Garibevs, from Savakar - Khuba Davidov, David Mnatsanakov, Manuchar Tyuniyev, from Archazur Kostnant Asriyev, from Khotanan the officer Ovanes Ter-Petrosov, Khanachur Davidov, the priest of the village Akhtakhan Ter-Grigor Ter-Minasov, the engineer Sumbat Melik Stepanov from the town Gerus, the former polices of the police office Isaak Buhintsev and Seratakov, from the village Muganjic Dadash and Khachaur Osinovs, from Gulgum Tevi Mnatsakanov, the former first sergeant of Ugurchal rural society Nikolay Petrosov, from Bykh Samson Melik-Paradanov, from Akarak Ivan Kazarov, Ayrapet Stepanov, Yefrem Agakhanov, Arnik Simonov, from the village Archazur Sumbat Medic Stepanov, and from the village Kovar - Agalo Pogosov.

The destruction of more than hundred villages of Zangezur uyezd, the driving of some ten thousands heads of cattle and some hundred thousand of sheep, the annihilation of gardens and fields have undermined the economical ituation of the Muslims of the uyezd, making 50000 people to be beggars. Many people have escaped to the villages of Azerbaijan. There have been about 1 billion rubles of losses.

Confession of a Dashnak in 1918 on his activities in Basar-Kechar region."I killed Muslims by every means possible. Yet it is sometimes a pity to waste bullets for this. The best way is to gather all of these dogs and throw them into wells and then fill the wells with big and heavy stones, as I did. I gathered all of the women, men and children, threw big stones down on top of them. They must never live on this earth."

A. Lalayan, "Revolutsionniy Vostok (Revolutionary East)" No: 2-3, Moscow, 1936. Quoted from Richard Hovannisian, Armenia on the Road to Independence-Berkeley, 1967, p. 41-42.

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''An appropriate analogy with the Jewish Holocaust might be the systematic extermination of the entire Muslim population of the independent republic of Armenia which consisted of at least 30-40 percent of the population of that republic. The memoirs of an Armenian army officer who participated in and eye-witnessed these atrocities was published in the U.S. in 1926 with the title 'Men Are Like That.' Other references abound.''

Rachel A. Bortnick - The Jewish Times - June 21, 1990.

"The Armenians did exterminate the entire Muslim population of Russian Armenia as Muslims were considered inferior to the Armenians by the prominent leaders of the Dashnaks."

Mikael Kaprilian, 1919.

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"We have never denied the Armenian crime of genocide inflicted upon 2.5 million Muslim people between 1914 and 1920."

Agop Zahoryan, 'Voices of Agonies', p. 91.

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"We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village. Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets completed the work."

Ohanus Appressian, 1919. (from "Men Are Like That" p. 202.)
 

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"In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish [Azerbaijani] soul.'"

Sahak Melkonian, 1920.

"Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them and in whatever circumstances you find them. Turkish children also should be killed as they form a danger to the Armenian nation."

Hamparsum Boyadjian, former Ottoman parliamentarian, led the Armenian forces who ravaged Turkish villages behind the lines under the nickname "Murad", 1914. Cited from M. Varandian, "History of the Dashnaktsutiun," p. 85.

Ohanus Appressian, 1919. (from "Men Are Like That" p. 202.)

"only 1,500 Turks remained in Van the rest having been slaughtered."

(Armenian newspaper Gochnak, published in the United States, May 24, 1915. Cited from Hovannisian, Richard G.: Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918. University of California Press (Berkeley and Los Angeles), 1967, p. 13.)

TO BE CONTINUED...

Bernard Lewis is just another David John Cawdell

David John Cawdell :Irving is an English writer specializing in the military history of World War II. Irving’s status as a historian has been widely discredited as a result of controversy arising from his Holocaust denial and misrepresentation of historical evidence.

Taner Akcam: I can show very easily genocidal intent of Ottoman Turkey

Turkey’s Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan was in
Washington to meet with President Bush to discuss mounting tensions
between the Turks and Kurdish rebel factions in Northern Iraq.

For his part, Mr Akcam said, "Our Prime Minister is wrong because we
can prove the genocidal intent without any problems. One set of
documentation are the trials in Istanbul between 1919 and 1921. These
are the indictments, verdicts, hand-written testimonies and eye-witness
accounts which were recorded during that time. There is a lot of
evidence here showing the killing of the Armenians. The originals of
these documents are not known. We assume that they have been destroyed
after Turkish nationalists took over Istanbul. [Turkish officials] only
trust the documents in prime ministerial archive today in Istanbul. I
can show very easily, based on prime ministerial archives, the
genocidal intent of Ottoman Turkey. I will publish a book in the
Turkish language in 2008 where I am presenting more than 500 documents
from prime ministerial archives in Istanbul."

I have to agree with all who say these "debates" with Turks are a waste of time and energy.  Every time something comes up anywhere about the Armenian genocide, there's always some crazy Turkish ranting to follow.  Every single time.  Armenians want to build a memorial garden in Boston - Turks say they'll do a better one and they want it on the same spot.  Armenians in Cardiff want to erect a memorial - turks object.  And every single article mentioning the Armenian genocide that can be accessed through the web is immediately attacked.  My sense is that the posts above may be from real Turks or Azeris, but often I think that the anti-Armenian posts come from staffers earning some of the many millions that Livingston and Gephardt's lobbying firms are earning from the Turkish government.  Many of them say almost the same things in almost the same words.  I don't think it's a coincidence and I don't think it's genuine.  Just a waste of everyone's time.  It's too bad, because murder is a nasty thing to trivialize, for any price.

Second that.......

I am not surprised to hear once again the power ! of the Turkish lobby but not the Armenian lobby which spends 40 million US Dollars annually to fill the innocent minds of the Armenian children with hatred and animosity against the Turks...