Arts & Culture
Chagall in Postville
By JewcyCraig / February 2, 2010
Eli Valley has never been one to back down from a controversial viewpoint. In his new comic for Jewcy (complete with beautiful coloring/shading by our very own Craig Leinoff), Valley borrows from that other great Jewish artist, Chagall, to give you a unique perspective on the hubbub surrounding the AgriProcessors kosher abbatoir in Postville, Iowa.
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This article first appeared on December 5, 2008 and has been republished as part of the series JEWCYEST WEEK EVER.
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So we don’t have to wade through the forthcoming post, I believe Jewlicious is located in Israel, not NYC. That said, I think amy’s point still stands.
There we go with that racism crap again. I don’t know of any race that one convert into. I mean, I know you think you’re pretty hot shit there Ismail – smarter than anyone else, smug and content in your perceived innate superiority. Does that make you racist? No. It makes you delusional. Me? I’m content with my simple faith and fully acknowledge how little I actually know.
What I do know is that ultimately the Tanya was a product of its times – seeing the continuing physical threat from the "bad" goyim and their "pogromy" ways as well as the nascent spiritual threat represented by the "good" goyim and their emancipation. The Tanya’s rejection of all things goyish may have indeed been prescient given that less than 150 years after it was written, the national product of German emancipation physically anihilated more Jews than the Cossaks ever did.I could go on and on of course but I don’t want to be seen as supporting some of the premises and teachings of the Tanya. But I do prefer a more nuanced discussion – none of this shrill "racism!" bullshit.
As for the Iowans – I feel for what the residents of Postville have gone through. But when a local business fucks up it’s not the responsibility of the business owner’s co-religionists to clean up the mess. That’s just not the way it works and it is idiotic bordering on offensive to think otherwise.
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I blog at Jewlicious.com
I wasnt looking to be welcomed here, I was simply refuting disgusting lies written about Torah Observant Jews and their holy books. That is why my post count will never get above 3.
 Happy Chanukah to everyone.
"There is quite a fine line between Goyim being on the same level as a cow, and Goyim not being on the same level as Yidden."
Could this really be what you mean? A fine line? Really? Saying that I am bovine is just about the same as saying that I am not Jewish?
I know, I know, it’s just that Jews are weighted with greater responsibility than gentiles, not that they are better. Horseshit. I say it’s racism, and I say to hell with it.
Anyway, even if this is what you truly believe, I’d keep it under my fine felt hat if I were you. Wouldn’t want the cattle to get wind of it. Â Â
I’m sorry, but no. If you choose to disagree, based on sources other
than the Tanya, that’s your prerogative, but it has been explained very
clearly to me by someone in Chabad that this is not what Chabad teaches
- and I suspect it’s in line with what most frum Jews believe.There is
an attitude of superiority inherent in the belief system.
And, for the record, Eli is not against Orthodoxy. But I am.
"I’m sorry, but no"
I can respect that you are a sheep. You either care not to research
this yourself or follow what one Jew says. Its beyond me that you are
basing the all Orthodox Judaism’s stance on this issue on what ONE
Lubavitcher said. I think people will get a kick out of that at the
Shabbos Table.
As for superiority, that word is nothing but an inflated
ego and lack of humility. We simply have a bigger mission here on Earth
and that’s why the Jews have such responsibilities while the Goyim have
7.Â
There is quite a fine line between Goyim being on the same level as a cow, and Goyim not being on the same level as Yidden.Â
I wont waste time arguing though, as the same Talmud that says
arguing shows lack of humility, is the same one that says a Goy who
follows the Noahide Laws has his share in the world to come.
Torah Jews don’t Poskin from the Tanya. Its not Halachah.Â
 And for the record I’m Anti Physics. You know why? Because I
know absolutely nothing about physics except for what this one Science
Major told me and I fear the unknown, therefore I am against it.
Don’t worry though, because Hashem isn’t anti you and when you realize it, he will welcome you back affectionately Â
And as for the Iowans wanting Jews out of the town. Unless you are
a non Jewish Iowan who is writing on this blog your opinion is worth
about as much as an Iranian Rial which is 1.00 USD to 9,918 IRR. Lets
see a statistical (which aren’t accurate anyway) survey done of 1,000
people from the town. Not some reported who spoke with 20 people.Â
Its not that non Jews are at the level of Cows (and Cow is really yummy by the way) and Chickens (mmmm good). Its that they tend to follow their emotions because its easy.
As far as other people saying Gentiles aren’t guaranteed eternallife, that is a wrong information as well. It says explicitly that if a Non Jew follows the 7 Noahide Laws they go to heaven. Its us that have 613 to worry about.Â
I’m sorry, but no. If you choose to disagree, based on sources other than the Tanya, that’s your prerogative, but it has been explained very clearly to me by someone in Chabad that this is not what Chabad teaches – and I suspect it’s in line with what most frum Jews believe.There is an attitude of superiority inherent in the belief system.
And, for the record, Eli is not against Orthodoxy. But I am.
Again… those Iowans were on the ground. They saw the influx of illegals into their town. They took their money when they paid rent and bought groceries and gas and everything else. I havevery little sympathy for them and rather than blame the Jews they ought to look in the mirror to see who it was exactly that aided and abetted the Rubashkins.
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I blog at Jewlicious.com
Terrific. Â Listen, while you guys are arguing there are a bunch of freaked-out Iowans who’ve watched their town get destroyed in ten years and are now wondering what they’re going to do for Christmas and beyond. Â This, to them, is now the meaning of "Jew". Â Are you going to do anything to help them, or are you going to keep sitting there and arguing?
Eli and I had big plans for the proceeds from this comic. He was able to buy a week’s worth of groceries, including a pack of Bubblicious for me.
Herbert Kaine is right. I happen to know that Eli is in fact a worthless layabout shikker who smokes constantly (no-name menthols!). Not only that, he actually farmed out the production of that comic to Chagall himself, to whom the shameless Valley refused to give credit.
And he soaks up the rays in a tanning bed he shares with Leinoff!
Make a cartoon about that, smart guy!Â
1 The comic isnt even that well drawn.
2 Watching y’all wave your e-cocks at each other like this is boring.Â
by all means, please demand higher standards for education, and try to
keep em honest, but dont criticise them cos they dont think the same as
you. to do so is naive, smallminded and makes you as fundamentalist as
those you attempt to critisize for being so.
It depends on what. You are correct that I may be just as rigid in demanding that literalism be jettisoned when conflicting with science, and take a strident line on issues which conflict with broad western values and beliefs. And many of these can be proven a lot better than conflicting religious beliefs. But I am often insisting that people take notice of these behavors and beliefs. Because they are targeted by outreach groups, they should know what they really stand for.
Where does one even begin? Chabad has two streams within it – conventional Chabad and the Meshichtim.These streams are in conflict with each other and only one believes that Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson is and remains, even now after his death, the messiah. Conventional Chabad does not believe this.
If Chabad does in fact believe that gentiles have "animal" souls, they sure have a weird way of showing it. A number of Chabad programs are aimed at ameliorating the lives of Jews and non-Jews alike. In Montreal, before we moved in, our office space was used for a drug rehab program run by Chabad – most of the participants weren’t Jewish. The Rabbis involved spoke out against drug abuse at area schools – most of which weren’t Jewish. The recently deceased Holtzbergs also engaged in similar work with non-Jews in Mumbai.
Blaming Chabad for the actions of the Rubashkins is like blaming all the Jews for the crimes committed by Elliot Spitzer or Ivan Boesky or Michael Milken or Bugsy Siegel. SoAgriprocessors had a powerful PR machine to help it cover its tracks and Chabad, along with everyone else, was fooled. So what? That happens every day and it doesn’t mean that those fooled are complicit in the underlying crimes.
I get it though. Valley doesn’t like Orthodox Judaism and loves to point out its imperfections. That’s good! That’s how we evolve I suppose. I wonder though, when he is going to turn his scathing drawing pen on the other things that ail modern Judaism? It can’t just be all Traditional Judaism and Establishment Jewish organizations…
I’m waiting.
Doop dee doop.
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I blog at Jewlicious.com
about this. in that we should not brush off Jewish shortcomings because there is much worse going on.
my point is that your fervor in persuing those that think and feel differently to you about Judaism smacks of "the lady doth protest", and that i would expect you to be more vocal about things that are bad and not focused on chareidi shortcomings.Â
its your vehemence and frustration that i find evocative. keep on hatin… im sure you will, but your problem is much more to do with what happenned to you, than it is to do with whats happening to anyone else. you were young. you listened and didnt question. you were told things by people who think differently than you. then you grew up and changed your mind.
i know a lot of baalei tshuvah that feel that they didnt get the whole picture when they were coming in to ortho jud. and they question their involvement as they get older. and most stay in. and some move out.
but i think that a lot of people feel that way about college, about medicine, being a lawyer, being married, having kids etc. they were one person at one time and x made sense. now they are older, different and it doesnt make sense any more. thats whats really happening. not a bunch of deceivers running around a school trying to frum people up cos they are evil.
i guess i feel its a lot less to do with dishonesty (although I agree that there is dishonesty. there is. there is. there is., so please no long post ignoring my point and going on about dishonesty in kiruv method… please, please spare us that) and a lot more to do with being young and impressionable and changing as you get older and reevaluating and making new decisions, and trying new directions..
you cant ask kiruv to teach 18 year olds like they are 40, or demand that aish/ohr/neve represent their ideas in a way that they think are false. You can wish they would, but you cant expect or demand that they do any more than you can expect law firms to hang signs on their recruitment stands stating" sell your soul for 100 hours a week for $100k starting package". the statement would be true if they wrote it, but its only one aspect of being a lawyer.
by all means, please demand higher standards for education, and try to keep em honest, but dont criticise them cos they dont think the same as you. to do so is naive, smallminded and makes you as fundamentalist as those you attempt to critisize for being so.
anyway, i look forward to your scathing reply. lets try and keep it personable if we can. for me, this is an honest enquiry, not a sniping match.
Is actually a real Hawaiian shirt that I brought back from Hawaii!
David –
 >>> "No Chabad leader of any stream has ever stated the Rebbe is not the messiah."
True. But that doesn’t contradict what I said though. You’re talking about public pronouncements that take shlom ha bayit and political realities into account, and I’m talking about actual beliefs.<<<
 So am I.
 >>>The Tanya also believes that Jews have animal souls. Only the complete tsadik has transcended his animal soul completely. And for the record, I’ve read the Tanya. <<<
 The Tanya says that non-Jews souls are wholly evil. They come from a different source that Jewish souls.
Past that , according to the Tanya, Jews have five souls.
The lowest, nefesh, is the animal or life-giving soul.
 The next four are Godly souls.
The gentile only has that life-giving soul, and it comes from a different, lower, more base place than ours does. And it is wholly evil.
Animals also have a nefesh, and they also lack Godly souls.
In other words, Eli Valley is right.
>>>As to Chabad’s legal defense fund for the Rubashkins – what’s so wrong about that? <<<
Ask them. Chabad hid its connection to the fund.
And then we have the issue of giving tax deductions to contributors.
>>>I’ve never voted for Likud or any remotely right wing party and what I think of Netanyahu is not very nice to say.<<<
Conceded.Â
Now do both of us a favor and call Charles, okay?
Thanks…Â
…in that gold lamĂ© jacket there Kelsaleh
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I blog at Jewlicious.com
ck, when you write a post declaring how I oversimplify everything and life sure is more complacated that I make it out to be, you might not want to bring point after point of agreement with me, even as you declare how I am wrong about everything, except, apparently, all topical specifics you feel like mentioning.
 You might want to instead say, "I disagree with you here and here, and in fact think such and such because….," or something to that effect, and list actual points of disagreement/"nuance." Just a suggestion, ck.
dk: I stopped eating meat because of the schita I witnessed at Agriprocessors which was brought to light by PETA. I felt that I could not trust that hashgacha of any Rabbi that considered Agriprocessor’s meat kosher, and today, pretty much every shochet considers it kosher despite everything. So I stopped eating meat. And I love meat. I’m Moroccan after all. Depriving me of something I love is not something I take very lightly. I’m more than a little pissed at the Rubashkins. The horrific labor violations that further came to light really cemented my position. No meat for me – and I’m not happy about it at all. As for the rest of your narishkeit Duvidle, nothing on this God’s green earth is black and white. Nothing. Your world view is flawed because it totally lacks any nuance. No subtlety. You’re as subtle and nuanced as cholent. Or chrain.Your criticism would be so much more valid if it contained any balance – then you’d have to be taken seriously. As it is, you are easily dismissed as a crank with a chip on his shoulder. This is good advice Duvidle. Believe me.
As for you Shmarya… we’ve known each other a long time. I knew you back in the day and while you were a different person, you were then, as you are now, a source of great inspiration and respect. But you were a leader then and I was a mere follower. You didn’t really know me so well and so permit me to make a number of comments.
 "No Chabad leader of any stream has ever stated the Rebbe is not the messiah."
True. But that doesn’t contradict what I said though. You’re talking about public pronouncements that take shlom ha bayit and political realities into account, and I’m talking about actual beliefs.
"The issue has always been one of control and obedience."
I never said otherwise. Chabad is a massive organization and it seeks to maintain internal cohesion. For better or for worse, that’s what massive ideologically based organizations do.
"The Chabadniks who wave yellow flags and declare publicly the Rebbe is the messiah reject the leadership of the other faction, and vice versa. But there is no theological difference past the efficacy of public affirmations and pronouncements."
If I told you that a number of Shlichim have told me differently, would you call me a liar? Well, a number of well regarded Shlichim have indeed told me differently.
"Well, David, despite the spin you are paid to craft, Chabad does believe gentiles have animal souls – but not divine, Godly souls. It’s right there in the Tanya, that book you have never read but rush to defend."
The Tanya also believes that Jews have animal souls. Only the complete tsadik has transcended his animal soul completely. And for the record, I’ve read the Tanya. Cover to cover. I am not a Chabadnik by any means and I not a follower or supporter of Hassidic Judaism – to put it mildly. As for the "spin" I am paid to craft, I have no idea what you’re talking about Shmarya. You ought to know better than to make statements like that, that have absolutely no basis in any kind of reality. I’ll let it slide though. I know this is an emotional subject for you and sometimes we allow our emotions to get the better of us.
As to Chabad’s legal defense fund for the Rubashkins – what’s so wrong about that? I think it’s more than a little misguided, but everyone is entitled to the presumption of innocence, no matter how heinous the crimes they are accused of. That’s one of the cornerstones of our legal system. It also just goes to show how delusional Rubashkins’ supporters are – the town of Postville is filled with evidence of their malfeasance. But again, everyone is entitled to a strong and vigorous defense, and while I sure as hell won’t be ponying up any of my hard earned shekels, I don’t begrudge anyone the right to spend their money any way they like.
"The fact is, David, you love Chabad because Chabad loves right of center Israeli politicians – the same politicians you support. But voting Netanyahu (or right of Netanyahu) should not earn one a free pass for racist theology – a theology scholars believe influenced Agriprocessors’ crimes."
Oh Shmarya. How little you know me. Why are you so presumptuous? I’ve never voted for Likud or any remotely right wing party and what I think of Netanyahu is not very nice to say. In the last Israeli elections, the first I have ever voted in, I voted for the Ethiopian list. I love Chabad for the same reasons I love you and I love DK and I love all my little yiddles. I like to see the good in (almost) everyone and on the balance of things, Chabad has done more good than bad. I’d be the last one to say they are perfect however so please don’t try to paint me as some kind of uni-dimensional apologist. Remember, I’m all about the subtlety and the nuance – and I miss my meat like a fat kid misses his cake.
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I blog at Jewlicious.com
>>>Where does one even begin? Chabad has two streams within it – conventional Chabad and the Meshichtim.These streams are in conflict with each other and only one believes that Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson is and remains, even now after his death, the messiah. Conventional Chabad does not believe this.<<<
That is absolutely false.
No Chabad leader of any stream has ever stated the Rebbe is not the messiah.
The issue has always been one of control and obedience.
The Chabadniks who wave yellow flags and declare publicly the Rebbe is the messiah reject the leadership of the other faction, and vice versa.
But there is no theological difference past the efficacy of public affirmations and pronouncements.
Beside that, the Rubashkins are in the "messianist" camp, as are many Postville Chaabdniks.
 >>>If Chabad does in fact believe that gentiles have "animal" souls, they sure have a weird way of showing it. A number of Chabad programs are aimed at ameliorating the lives of Jews and non-Jews alike. In Montreal, before we moved in, our office space was used for a drug rehab program run by Chabad – most of the participants weren’t Jewish. The Rabbis involved spoke out against drug abuse at area schools – most of which weren’t Jewish. The recently deceased Holtzbergs also engaged in similar work with non-Jews in Mumbai.<<<
Well, David, despite the spin you are paid to craft, Chabad does believe gentiles have animal souls – but not divine, Godly souls.
It’s right there in the Tanya, that book you have never read but rush to defend.
As for any good works Chabad does with non-Jews, you first need to separate out those good works paid for by government grants and the like.
Drug treatment centers get lots of government money, on the condition they serve everyone.
Because the Jewish population is much smaller than the gentile population, most clients of these Chabad drug treatment programs will be non-Jewish.
 >>>Blaming Chabad for the actions of the Rubashkins is like blaming all the Jews for the crimes committed by Elliot Spitzer or Ivan Boesky or Michael Milken or Bugsy Siegel. SoAgriprocessors had a powerful PR machine to help it cover its tracks and Chabad, along with everyone else, was fooled. So what? That happens every day and it doesn’t mean that those fooled are complicit in the underlying crimes.<<<
Please.
You are either willfully misrepresenting the facts or wholly ignorant of them.
Chabad is STILL defending Agriprocessors and the Rubashkin, even now, after all the revelations., charges and indictments.
Chabad has a tax deductible legal defense fund set up from Sholom M. Rubashkin. It is raising money for him across the US and Canada.
Fooled?
Please.
 >>>I get it though. Valley doesn’t like Orthodox Judaism and loves to point out its imperfections. That’s good! That’s how we evolve I suppose. I wonder though, when he is going to turn his scathing drawing pen on the other things that ail modern Judaism?<<<
Pathetic.
Eli Valley has long done exactly that.
The fact is, David, you love Chabad because Chabad loves right of center Israeli politicians – the same politicians you support.
But voting Netanyahu (or right of Netanyahu)  should not earn one a free pass for racist theology – a theology scholars believe influenced Agriprocessors’ crimes.
but chill out. people are dying in droves in africa. jews are being
bombed in sderot. bombs are goin off and killing innocents everywhere.
chill out, and point your moral crusade compass somewhere less petty.
We can’t change that. What we can change is ourselves and our own community. This is the essence of the dominant strain of quiescent Judaism. To defend our own behavior because others are worse — even much worse — is to deny everything positive about the message of Judaism, either secular, liberal, traditional, or haredi.
If we are to follow your logic, we should not be upset about the bleaching and beatings of Modern Orthodox women by haredim in B’nai Brak and Jersualem, because there are acid attacks on women in Islamabad and honor killings in the Muslim world. But that is not our primary responsibility. Our primary responsbilitly is to stop the harassment of our own women by our own fundamentalists. Not brush it off because there is much worse.Â
i am so sick of DK and his guilty crew bangin on about anything
wrong they can find about ortho jews. its just so boring. dk we are
sorry that you got involved with frummers about 100 years ago or
whenever it was. we are sorry that you were taken advantage of by them.
we are sorry, we are sorry, we are sorry. most of all we are sorry that
you cant just get over it and recognise that the biggest problem in all
of this … was you.
No. You and yours are sorry I won’t shut up. The kiruv movement and "teshuvah revolution" has grown exponentially since I was a young man, and they use the same deceptive, revisionist, and seductive methods to indoctrinate new recruits. Even worse, they now have entered the public schools system, with over 250 clubs strong. You are not sorry at all. You are armed to the teeth with money and backing, but a few educated critics are revealing who you really are, what you really want, and how you operate. And some people are beginning to take notice. And the educated consumer is your worst prospect.
Why don’t you people just get the fuck out of our public school system and take your lactose-laden free pizzas with you? In the off-chance you don’t want to do that, how about some transparency about who you work with and partner with? Parents and high school students have a right to know who is in their kids’ schools, and what their agenda is.
And big kiruv is working to infiltrate the Hillels, when sometimes their actual aim is not just to get students to be Orthodox, but rather, to get them to drop out of their college and attend haredi yeshivas and seminaries which depise the western world in its entirety. Oh, goodie — they don’t blow shit up.
Aren’t they so wonderful.
this cartoon is just internal anger masquerading in current events. dont get me wrong…these guys deserve all they get, but eli is just looking for excuses to work out his anti religious anger.
im all for a bit of sarcastic attacking, but it should be a bit responsible. chabad does good work, and it has just suferred a big loss in mumbai. i think you should cut them some slack and stop treating chabad like they own agriprocessors or these lawbreakers as if they are the most immoral people in the world. they arent. they broke some rules on slaughter, and some stuff on workers rights. its bad, ok. really bad. but chill out. people are dying in droves in africa. jews are being bombed in sderot. bombs are goin off and killing innocents everywhere. chill out, and point your moral crusade compass somewhere less petty.
both he and dk employ all the tactics and subterfuge on the unsusepecting jewcy public as the rabbis they so openly hate.
i am so sick of DK and his guilty crew bangin on about anything
wrong they can find about ortho jews. its just so boring. dk we are
sorry that you got involved with frummers about 100 years ago or
whenever it was. we are sorry that you were taken advantage of by them.
we are sorry, we are sorry, we are sorry. most of all we are sorry that
you cant just get over it and recognise that the biggest problem in all
of this … was you. you are the one that bought what they told you.
stop trying to prove they were insincere. they arent. or dishonest.
just focus on your own weakness, and focus any anger you have back on
yourself.
in other words….for fucks sake, just move on.
please stop wasting our time. pay for therapy like a normal person, and use your tremendous talents as writers and artists to actually contribute something.
free your minds boys… its time to move on.
jeez.Â
So Agriprocessors had a powerful PR machine to help it cover its tracks and Chabad, along with everyone else, was fooled.
Everyone was fooled, ck? Were you fooled? Or did you become a vegetarian years ago when Shmarya broke this story? How come you weren’t fooled, ck? Was that possibly because unlike Chabad and the OU/National Council of Young Israel, you weren’t financially affected by this situation? Could that be part of it?
Eli beautiful work! Craig awesome color work, it really helps to bring the comic alive! You two make a good team. Hope to see more work done together.Â
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